Aegwynn (as Guardian) vs. Queen Azshara - Who would most likely win in a real battle?

[baskev]

Aegwynn - She is the most powerful Guardian of Tirisfal, serving in her role for a thousand years - she fought and almost defeated Sargeras's manifestation not once but twice - the second time was when she was without any Guardian abilities, and she was still apparently single-handedly winning her fight with Medivh, being directly helped by Sargeras himself, at Karazhan. She was able to easily elude the Kirin Tor for decades, as well as the best of their Tirisgarde. She was the one who sealed the Tomb of Sargeras, and was able to subdue Aluneth, which she used to create Karazhan, as well as wielding Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian.

Azshara - Arguably the most powerful and renowned night elf ever to live. Greatest of the Highborne rulers. She has been described as the most powerful sorceress in existence - to have ever lived. Destroyed Pillar of Creation easily (Tidestone of Golganneth). During the War of the Ancients, Mannoroth realized she was actually far stronger than he was - that only Archimonde and Sargeras provided superior to her, and this was 10,000 years ago, when she was much less experienced. Aluneth stated that naga wielded the arcane without finesse - but there was a time Azshara's people apparently "had the potential to rival the titans". Although Azshara today is without the Well of Eternity - she does have access to considerable Void abilities along with her arcane ones.

Who would most likely win in a real fight if Aegwynn, when she was serving as Guardian of Tirisfal, had fought Azshara, in some random location where neither of them have the advantage, without any assistance?

azshara severed the legion/sargaras. Aegwynn fought azshara's boss twice. you said it yourself.

Maybe after the old god power boost azshara got. but we will never know.

[darkoms]

No, you're doing that thing where you disingenuously construct strawmen again. Mannoroth is weak because he is just objectively not that powerful. Mannoroth is roughly as strong as Cenarius and has been beaten multiple times by Grommash. There's just not much to say in his favor other than people blindly appealing to his rank. He can have whatever fancy rank he wants but if that is not made apparent in the lore then the title is worthless.



Yes, I have been in the raid, but she was still easily decimated by the Champions of Azeroth. Appealing to a mechanic when we can see, pretty blatantly, that there are some hard limits on her power is silly. "She could have killed them at any time, trust me. She could have definitely killed them all. Don't worry that she was beaten easily, that's not relevant. She coulda done it. I swear. Trust me, please. Please believe me."

Regarding Archi and KJ, you are once again doing that disingenuous thing you do where you construct strawmen and then act like a point was made. The point was not that Azshara was beaten by the Champions of Azeroth and Aegwynn wasn't. It was that you are asserting Azshara has some monumental, insurmountable level of power, could have easily defeated the Champions of Azeroth, when that simply was not the case. She fought the Champions of Azeroth with everything arrayed in her favor and handily lost. Doing this awkward "Well, she just wasn't trying" thing does not work.

Strength in the Legion means power, strange that you didn't know that. Grommash defeated him the first time because Mannoroth was not expecting an attack (Chronicle 3) and the second time because Mannoroth was distracted by an iron star. This is not the same as defeat in direct combat and Grommash had a magic ax.

What do you mean was easily destroyed? How did you determine how easy it was? Once again, Azshara was more focused on freeing Nzoth and even so needed the help of Jaina, Thalyssra, and LorTemar. I’m not saying that she could easily defeat the champions when they fought her all together, I’m saying that she could kill any of them and did it when the player showed her an indecent gesture or did not obey orders. Once again. Jaina personally communicated with Aegwynn, was her biggest fan and knew all her exploits by heart. And yet she is called Azshara's greatest sorceress.

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azshara severed the legion/sargaras. Aegwynn fought azshara's boss twice. you said it yourself.

Maybe after the old god power boost azshara got. but we will never know.

Aegwynn fought the Avatar, what does Azshara's boss have to do with it? Azshara also never swore allegiance to Sargeras or anything, she just wanted to marry him.

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A lot of people hail Azshara as this amazingly powerful Wizard/Mage but at the end of the day she never really did anything that impressive in lore. Even the whole 'holding back the sea' stuff in Nazjatar is done using a Pillar of Creation.

I don't know why she's so hyped. People are even saying she could take on Guardians of Tirisfal. Don't make me laugh. What feats does she have to put her on that level? Malfurion slugs it out with her all the time.



Mannoroth was the 4th boss of the Legion after Sargeras and Velen's boyband. That Grommash oneshots him twice isn't proof of Mannoroth's weakness, it's proof of just how crazy strong Grom was.

He simply is the character you're told is crazy OP so that a hero can look badass as hell when they take him down. Sort of like the Avatar of Khaine or the Swarmlord from 40K.

LOL what. Azshara destroyed the Pillar of Creation and made Mannoroth wet his pants just by looking at him. Many people just know lore, apparently? Because even Jaina, the most powerful sorceress mortal, called Azshara the greatest wizard in Azeroth history. Do you know better than Jaina? Aegwynn is the strongest Guardian of Tirisfal in fact, and the only one who can truly hope to defeat Azshara. Azshara will simply wipe the floor with any other Guardian. Malfurion never quarreled with her. In the extremely old lore, in the Warcraft III manual, it is said that Malfurion became enraged that Tyrande was nearly killed and destroyed Portal and Azshara was unable to stop him. This is not the same as winning a direct battle and it is already non-canon anyway. The second time they met in Cataclysm, Azshara simply left, telling Malfurion that she was just distracting him.

[TheFirstOnes]

Aegwynn was human

We all know how it works

Ok? I'm human too. Did that stop me from facing the Avatar of Aggramar or Argus the Unmaker with the aid of my Artifact + the Pantheon?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You know, why can't they do that again? Like the high elves or the humans of Dalaran - they could have summoned another massive firestorm from the heavens to annihilate the Scourge, or other invaders during any of their previous wars. I'm sure, they are much more experienced and formidable today than the mages of several millennia ago.

Likely counter magic arthas was able to take the most skilled mages apart while still a dk.

[TheFirstOnes]

Likely counter magic arthas was able to take the most skilled mages apart while still a dk.

With his Necromancers and Scourge...

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For like the 90th time, Arthas never did all this shit alone.

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azshara severed the legion/sargaras. Aegwynn fought azshara's boss twice. you said it yourself.

Maybe after the old god power boost azshara got. but we will never know.

She merely fought an Avatar. It's not that impressive.

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Strength in the Legion means power, strange that you didn't know that. Grommash defeated him the first time because Mannoroth was not expecting an attack (Chronicle 3) and the second time because Mannoroth was distracted by an iron star. This is not the same as defeat in direct combat and Grommash had a magic ax.

What do you mean was easily destroyed? How did you determine how easy it was? Once again, Azshara was more focused on freeing Nzoth and even so needed the help of Jaina, Thalyssra, and LorTemar. I’m not saying that she could easily defeat the champions when they fought her all together, I’m saying that she could kill any of them and did it when the player showed her an indecent gesture or did not obey orders. Once again. Jaina personally communicated with Aegwynn, was her biggest fan and knew all her exploits by heart. And yet she is called Azshara's greatest sorceress.

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Aegwynn fought the Avatar, what does Azshara's boss have to do with it? Azshara also never swore allegiance to Sargeras or anything, she just wanted to marry him.

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LOL what. Azshara destroyed the Pillar of Creation and made Mannoroth wet his pants just by looking at him. Many people just know lore, apparently? Because even Jaina, the most powerful sorceress mortal, called Azshara the greatest wizard in Azeroth history. Do you know better than Jaina? Aegwynn is the strongest Guardian of Tirisfal in fact, and the only one who can truly hope to defeat Azshara. Azshara will simply wipe the floor with any other Guardian. Malfurion never quarreled with her. In the extremely old lore, in the Warcraft III manual, it is said that Malfurion became enraged that Tyrande was nearly killed and destroyed Portal and Azshara was unable to stop him. This is not the same as winning a direct battle and it is already non-canon anyway. The second time they met in Cataclysm, Azshara simply left, telling Malfurion that she was just distracting him.

I always found it funny that Azshara wanted to marry Sargeras. Like, how would that...ya know...FIT?! I know Sargeras can likely change his size, but still...

Not to mention Sargeras is kind of a Pedo anyway, tho he doesn't start crushing on Azeroth's World Soul until before battling Aegwynn.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

With his Necromancers and Scourge...

nope he beat antonidas, kael'thas and kael'thas's dad all in 1v1 countering there magic pretty much ever time they cast any thing at him.

[baskev]

She merely fought an Avatar. It's not that impressive.

from sargeras wowpedia page:

Sargeras saw that Aegwynn was a serious threat

Though only a tiny fragment of Sargeras' true form and devastating cosmic power, the Avatar radiated great strength and fury

Yes it was a avatar. But azshara bent the knee without even fighting. And nowhere is it found that he feared azshara.

And she fought him ( even if it was his avatar). they titan who rips whole old gods from planets and kills them. Who commands a endless army. And he feared her!


Azshara worked for/minion of the old gods.


So:

Sargeras beats > old gods
Sargeras fears > Aegwynn

Azshara > works as minion for old gods.

So real simple.....if your boss can be killed by a big bad, and that big bad fears someone......enough said.

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Aegwynn fought the Avatar, what does Azshara's boss have to do with it? Azshara also never swore allegiance to Sargeras or anything, she just wanted to marry him.

But the avatar still had some of his powers etc. And he only did that because he feared her.

Azshara's boss...


Sargeras beats old god,
Old gods are boss of azshara
So if your bosses get killed by big bad titan. And that big bad titan fears jaina beta version. Then Jaina beta version must be very strong.

And azshara worked for the old gods after she ran. You know...they whole stuff in BFA where she was working for a old god. And then got killed by us, and then got taken to the old gods place ( the n zoth raid?)

But in the end we will only know if they ever meet on the battle field.

But for me its simple.

Azshara worked/inslaved by the old gods. Old gods get killed by sargeras. Sargeras fear jaina beta version....


or this one from the wow pedia :

When the portal to the other realm was almost open, the combined force of the night elves and their allies from the future (see War of the Ancients) charged in to destroy it. Irritated by the lack of order, Azshara approached Mannoroth and demanded an explanation. Enraged by both his own failure and the questions asked by the Queen, he wanted to rip her head off, but quickly saw the error of his ways when he realized that Azshara was "a force against which only his lord and Archimonde would prove superior". Azshara forgave him that mistake and urged him on to allow Sargeras entrance to Kalimdor.

So archimond was stronger as Azshara. A sub boss/minion of a titan who feared jaina beta version. Was stronger as queen fishy.

[StillMcfuu]

It's hard to not consider Aegwynn the easily more powerful. Sarg respected her abilities so much that he decided force wifing her was the best way to conquest vs just opposing her. Last I checked the Legion doesn't have the same respect for Azshara as they did for Aegwynn. I think it should be mentioned Aegwynn also repelled a Legion invasion, Azshara worked with them as a path to more power.

[starstationprofm]

LOL what. Azshara destroyed the Pillar of Creation and made Mannoroth wet his pants just by looking at him. Many people just know lore, apparently?

Knaak shit lore from 10 years ago you mean.

Azshara being more powerful than Mannoroth means nothing when Mannoroth has no notable feats and is the Legion's go-to jobber. Also her powers were far higher because of the Well.

[Adoxe]

Aegwynn of course. Azshara was comparable to Archimonde & KJ in strength, not Sargeras.

[darkoms]

Knaak shit lore from 10 years ago you mean.

Azshara being more powerful than Mannoroth means nothing when Mannoroth has no notable feats and is the Legion's go-to jobber. Also her powers were far higher because of the Well.

So? Has it ceased to be canon or what?

Lol I don’t understand where you get this nonsense about the fact that it was stronger than 10 thousand years ago. Xavius with the Well and the buff of Sargeras could do nothing against Malfurion. Xavius with the power of Nzoth became more powerful than the wild gods. People massively underestimate how much power Nzoth gives to his servants.

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Aegwynn of course. Azshara was comparable to Archimonde & KJ in strength, not Sargeras.

Is Aegwynn stronger than Sargeras?

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from sargeras wowpedia page:





Yes it was a avatar. But azshara bent the knee without even fighting. And nowhere is it found that he feared azshara.

And she fought him ( even if it was his avatar). they titan who rips whole old gods from planets and kills them. Who commands a endless army. And he feared her!


Azshara worked for/minion of the old gods.


So:

Sargeras beats > old gods
Sargeras fears > Aegwynn

Azshara > works as minion for old gods.

So real simple.....if your boss can be killed by a big bad, and that big bad fears someone......enough said.

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But the avatar still had some of his powers etc. And he only did that because he feared her.

Azshara's boss...


Sargeras beats old god,
Old gods are boss of azshara
So if your bosses get killed by big bad titan. And that big bad titan fears jaina beta version. Then Jaina beta version must be very strong.

And azshara worked for the old gods after she ran. You know...they whole stuff in BFA where she was working for a old god. And then got killed by us, and then got taken to the old gods place ( the n zoth raid?)

But in the end we will only know if they ever meet on the battle field.

But for me its simple.

Azshara worked/inslaved by the old gods. Old gods get killed by sargeras. Sargeras fear jaina beta version....


or this one from the wow pedia :

So archimond was stronger as Azshara. A sub boss/minion of a titan who feared jaina beta version. Was stronger as queen fishy.

The Avatar of Sargeras has only 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000001% of the strength of Sargeras himself and the Avatar of Sargeras is clearly weaker than any Old God. Please never post such nonsense again, I felt dumber after reading your post.

[baskev]

The Avatar of Sargeras has only 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000001% of the strength of Sargeras himself and the Avatar of Sargeras is clearly weaker than any Old God. Please never post such nonsense again, I felt dumber after reading your post.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sargeras#Betrayal

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old...r_and_strength

However, Sargeras and Aman'Thul both demonstrated the ability to kill Old Gods with ease, mostly by taking advantage of their significant size difference. Sargeras killed numerous Old Gods simultaneously with a single stroke of his sword, destroying a nameless world-soul infested with Old Gods.[18] Aman'Thul killed the most powerful of the Old Gods on Azeroth, Y'Shaarj, by tearing him from the surface of the planet. In doing so, he inadvertently wounded the sleeping world-soul due to how deeply Y'Shaarj had burrowed into the planet's crust. Though the titans could have easily destroyed the rest of the Old Gods in a similar fashion, it was avoided so as to not damage Azeroth any further

......so please never post such nonsense again. This is all ingame lore. Hell BFA lore.


And your side stepping the point i made.


If titans like sargeras and aman 'thul are stronger as old gods. And a titan like sargeras feared aegwynn. You can asume that she is very strong. Maybe not old god strong. But very very strong. Someone who kills old gods with 1 blow of his sword fears someone like her.

Now the second part. Azshara did work for the old gods. And she could be beaten by archimond. Again i linked the lore.


So to recap:

Sargeras > fears aegwynn
Sargeras > killed old gods with ease
Archimond a MINION of sargeras could kill azshara.



and all those zero;s....again qoute:

Though only a tiny fragment of Sargeras' true form and devastating cosmic power, the Avatar radiated great strength and fury

tiny is not, that many zero's.



But again, this is my take/opinion on it. you have yours.

And its all what blizzard wants. I done a lot of reading 2night. And i can not find a single person who faced both the ladies. Or via a 3th person.
So this is all guess work using lore we have.

In the end. I think the problem is that they talk a big talk about azshara. But we have not seen in lore many great things she has done.
While aegwynn has had great things in her past. Hell she had the soul of sargeras in her and she resisted.

[darkoms]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sargeras#Betrayal

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old...r_and_strength



......so please never post such nonsense again. This is all ingame lore. Hell BFA lore.


And your side stepping the point i made.


If titans like sargeras and aman 'thul are stronger as old gods. And a titan like sargeras feared aegwynn. You can asume that she is very strong. Maybe not old god strong. But very very strong. Someone who kills old gods with 1 blow of his sword fears someone like her.

Now the second part. Azshara did work for the old gods. And she could be beaten by archimond. Again i linked the lore.


So to recap:

Sargeras > fears aegwynn
Sargeras > killed old gods with ease
Archimond a MINION of sargeras could kill azshara.



and all those zero;s....again qoute:
tiny is not, that many zero's.



But again, this is my take/opinion on it. you have yours.

And its all what blizzard wants. I done a lot of reading 2night. And i can not find a single person who faced both the ladies. Or via a 3th person.
So this is all guess work using lore we have.

In the end. I think the problem is that they talk a big talk about azshara. But we have not seen in lore many great things she has done.
While aegwynn has had great things in her past. Hell she had the soul of sargeras in her and she resisted.

I repeat again for a special person who does not know what an avatar is. The Avatar is not a real Titan. In Avatar, only a tiny fraction of the power of a true Titan. And Sargeras was never afraid of Aegwynn. I do not understand why you are citing the exploits of Sargeras as an example, if his Avatar was never capable of such a thing. Or, according to your logic, Aegwynn is stronger than the Old Gods? Never write such nonsense again.

Realy? Don't you know the person who met with both ladies? Have you ever heard of Jaina Proudmoore? Who was Aegwynn's main fan, knew her biography and all of her exploits by heart, and communicated closely with her while Aegwynn was her advisor in Theramore? And this same Jaina said in Nazjatar that Azshara is the most powerful mage in the history of Azeroth.

Lol, Azshara could have caused the Legion demons to attack each other simply by spending time with them.

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It's hard to not consider Aegwynn the easily more powerful. Sarg respected her abilities so much that he decided force wifing her was the best way to conquest vs just opposing her. Last I checked the Legion doesn't have the same respect for Azshara as they did for Aegwynn. I think it should be mentioned Aegwynn also repelled a Legion invasion, Azshara worked with them as a path to more power.

So, according to your logic, Aegwynn is stronger than Archimonde and Kil'jaeden?

[StillMcfuu]

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So, according to your logic, Aegwynn is stronger than Archimonde and Kil'jaeden?

No, nothing I said would let you leap to that conclusion.

Since you are asking though, she is probably around their level. Sargeras took her serious enough that even though he could get his Avatar through to Azeroth he knew it wouldn't be enough to kill her so he worked another plan. She wasn't fool enough to fall for a proposal like Arch and Killah J either. I would say she was probably as powerful as Archimonde, Velen, and KillahJ together, to the point that Sarg took to subversion instead of just steamrolling her/them.

[darkoms]

No, nothing I said would let you leap to that conclusion.

Since you are asking though, she is probably around their level. Sargeras took her serious enough that even though he could get his Avatar through to Azeroth he knew it wouldn't be enough to kill her so he worked another plan. She wasn't fool enough to fall for a proposal like Arch and Killah J either. I would say she was probably as powerful as Archimonde, Velen, and KillahJ together, to the point that Sarg took to subversion instead of just steamrolling her/them.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry, I could not resist

Infracted.

[Gaidax]

I mean, by all accounts Aegwynn was clearly by far more powerful.

Sure Azshara is pretty powerful, but it's just not the same level as the most powerful Guardian of Tirisfal to ever live.

[TheFirstOnes]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sargeras#Betrayal

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old...r_and_strength



......so please never post such nonsense again. This is all ingame lore. Hell BFA lore.


And your side stepping the point i made.


If titans like sargeras and aman 'thul are stronger as old gods. And a titan like sargeras feared aegwynn. You can asume that she is very strong. Maybe not old god strong. But very very strong. Someone who kills old gods with 1 blow of his sword fears someone like her.

Now the second part. Azshara did work for the old gods. And she could be beaten by archimond. Again i linked the lore.


So to recap:

Sargeras > fears aegwynn
Sargeras > killed old gods with ease
Archimond a MINION of sargeras could kill azshara.



and all those zero;s....again qoute:
tiny is not, that many zero's.



But again, this is my take/opinion on it. you have yours.

And its all what blizzard wants. I done a lot of reading 2night. And i can not find a single person who faced both the ladies. Or via a 3th person.
So this is all guess work using lore we have.

In the end. I think the problem is that they talk a big talk about azshara. But we have not seen in lore many great things she has done.
While aegwynn has had great things in her past. Hell she had the soul of sargeras in her and she resisted.

That's cool and all. Sargeras and Aman'thul can slay Old Gods. You're right.

Now maybe answer the actual question on why an Avatar would?

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Because...if you lose to the Guardian of Tirisfal, you're not Old God level. I'm sorry, that's a fuckin fact.

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I mean, by all accounts Aegwynn was clearly by far more powerful.

Sure Azshara is pretty powerful, but it's just not the same level as the most powerful Guardian of Tirisfal to ever live.

Her only feat is defeating the Avatar of Sargeras. You can actually argue why that can be a deciding factor...but...that's it.

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No, nothing I said would let you leap to that conclusion.

Since you are asking though, she is probably around their level. Sargeras took her serious enough that even though he could get his Avatar through to Azeroth he knew it wouldn't be enough to kill her so he worked another plan. She wasn't fool enough to fall for a proposal like Arch and Killah J either. I would say she was probably as powerful as Archimonde, Velen, and KillahJ together, to the point that Sarg took to subversion instead of just steamrolling her/them.

Why are you saying "Killahj"? Also, no. Why do you even think she's remotely close to KJ, Velen's, and Archimonde's power combined?

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Do you think she's stronger than a Wild God, then? Specifically Cenarius or Malorne?

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This isn't me saying Azshara. This is me wondering why you guys are seemingly wanking Aegwynn so much.

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Aegwynn is a human.

The answer is obvious.




God damn it, beat me to it.

Humans in WoW are like Saiyans in DB.

[StillMcfuu]

That's cool and all. Sargeras and Aman'thul can slay Old Gods. You're right.

Now maybe answer the actual question on why an Avatar would?

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Because...if you lose to the Guardian of Tirisfal, you're not Old God level. I'm sorry, that's a fuckin fact.

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Her only feat is defeating the Avatar of Sargeras. You can actually argue why that can be a deciding factor...but...that's it.

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Why are you saying "Killahj"? Also, no. Why do you even think she's remotely close to KJ, Velen's, and Archimonde's power combined?

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Do you think she's stronger than a Wild God, then? Specifically Cenarius or Malorne?

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This isn't me saying Azshara. This is me wondering why you guys are seemingly wanking Aegwynn so much.

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Humans in WoW are like Saiyans in DB.

Their OG power Im talking about, not their most recent demon lord powers (Velen not withstanding). I'm saying that Sargeras respected the triumvirates power as a total the same way he respected Aegwynn by herself.

Saying aegwynn is as strong as basic bitch velen, KillahJ, and archimonde when they were just the leaders of the eradar isn't a huge stretch.

I also call him KillahJ because we've been calling him KillahJ since Sunwell.

[Arcreid]

Anduin would destroy Aegwynn and Azshara in a 2v1.

[TheFirstOnes]

Their OG power Im talking about, not their most recent demon lord powers (Velen not withstanding). I'm saying that Sargeras respected the triumvirates power as a total the same way he respected Aegwynn by herself.

Saying aegwynn is as strong as basic bitch velen, KillahJ, and archimonde when they were just the leaders of the eradar isn't a huge stretch.

I also call him KillahJ because we've been calling him KillahJ since Sunwell.

Velen's not even that weak, tbh. Hell, KJ accepted Sargeras' gift mainly DUE to his jealousy over Velen's gift of being the one with the greatest vision, faith, and magical prowess. Also, really? That imo makes more sense. I thought you meant combined however. She's maybe as strong as one of the Triumvirate members, but idk about all 3 of em prior to their corruption.

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Anduin would destroy Aegwynn and Azshara in a 2v1.

Ok...but like...

You're NOT wrong. Well, in regards to Jailer Anduin, that is.