Page 1 of 6
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Hell...
    Posts
    3,635

    Jailer true form?

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-enc...9-1-ptr-322045

    Is encrypted, it means...



    This form will be his true form?

    .

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Land of human potential (and non-toxic masculinity)
    Posts
    22,845
    Im still hoping for a crossover we all want and jailers true form will be modeled after and voiced by Van Darkholme.

  3. #3
    meh, a new form won't change the fact that he's a completely one note, uninteresting generic "I am evil kill all" villain. Though hey, if he does transform or w.e to that concept art form, at least he'd look interesting and have have some character from that

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    meh, a new form won't change the fact that he's a completely one note, uninteresting generic "I am evil kill all" villain. Though hey, if he does transform or w.e to that concept art form, at least he'd look interesting and have have some character from that
    I still don't get how a character that supposes to be the voice and influence behind LK Arthas is such a disappointing compare with LK Arthas, so far he seems as generic as freaking Death Wing

  5. #5
    Now I unleash my final form: me but with a beard!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  6. #6
    Would be great. If only because his current model is ridiculously comical. Maybe when he's "whole" again (retrieves that shit out of the Arbiter) he'll come back to his former self?

    God I really hope they have some interesting twist in store. An evil guy, looking evil, sounding evil, with evil intentions, just wanting to do evil things, is so lame.

  7. #7
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    42,383
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    meh, a new form won't change the fact that he's a completely one note, uninteresting generic "I am evil kill all" villain. Though hey, if he does transform or w.e to that concept art form, at least he'd look interesting and have have some character from that
    Calling everything generic doesn't make it a good argument. There isn't anything wrong with "Kill all" we haven't had that kind of villain.....at all.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  8. #8
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    16,441
    I think it's less a "new form" and more an "old form". In other words, I think this is how the Jailer looked before the others (Primus, the Archon, the Winter Queen and Sire Denathrius) locked him in the Maw.

    Also I just learned that the Nathrezim were created by Sire Denathrius. Learn something new every day.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  9. #9
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Calling everything generic doesn't make it a good argument. There isn't anything wrong with "Kill all" we haven't had that kind of villain.....at all.
    The issue with the Jailer isn't generic-ness or lack of originality (or that he's an omnicidal maniac), it's more that he kind of personifies the Giant Space Flea from Nowhere trope in a very negative manner. Greater scope villains need appropriate foreshadowing in a narrative to have an appropriate impact - introducing a greater scope villain like the Jailer apropos of nothing is generally a bad play, as the reader/player will have no real sense of investment in the character and their actions. They might gain this in sufficient time if handled well (entirely subjective if you think the Jailer has been handled well in the narrative), but without it they kind of always read as one-dimensional and entirely external.

    Blizzard pulled the same basic issue with the introduction of the Void Lords, who went on to eclipse the previous standard-bearers of the Void (the Old Gods) as a major threat, and who even now have had little to no build-up within the narrative. N'Zoth, by contrast, had tons of build-up and foreshadowing long before he was ever introduced to the story.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-04-26 at 09:22 PM.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  10. #10
    That wasn’t the Jailer’s final model. We don’t even know if he will get a final form or not...

  11. #11
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In some Sanctuaryesque place or a Haven
    Posts
    42,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The issue with the Jailer isn't generic-ness or lack of originality (or that he's an omnicidal maniac), it's more that he kind of personifies the Giant Space Flea from Nowhere trope in a very negative manner. Greater scope villains need appropriate foreshadowing in a narrative to have an appropriate impact - introducing a greater scope villain like the Jailer apropos of nothing is generally a bad play, as the reader/player will have no real sense of investment in the character and their actions. They might gain this in sufficient time if handled well (entirely subjective if you think the Jailer has been handled well in the narrative), but without it they kind of always read as one-dimensional and entirely external.

    Blizzard pulled the same basic issue with the introduction of the Void Lords, who went on to eclipse the previous standard-bearers of the Void (the Old Gods) as a major threat, and who even now have had little to no build-up within the narrative. N'Zoth, by contrast, had tons of build-up and foreshadowing long before he was ever introduced to the story.
    Thats how all new villains pop up, there's no build up, they just appear and we accept their existence. The Lich King originally came out of nowhere from a player's perspective in WCIII, we learned who he was and eventually we fought him later in WoW. Its the same thing and the Void Lords can't really apply here because we haven't really seen them, there's no actual detail of them except recently that one book the Natherzeim leave in Revandreath, its not like they popped up and we fought them, we haven't, only their creations. Zovaal is no different, he shows up and we don't know who he is. The Arbiter showed up being this entity that choses the afterlife for mortals. There was no build up for it either.

    People just need to accept new characters will pop up and need to be given time to get "build up" Shadowlands is all about Zovaal's build up.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    3,222
    This is a new Jailer model. Not a new Zovaal model. Maybe after Zovaal goes on a rampage, the eternal elect a new Jailer cause somebody has to look after the Maw.

  13. #13
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Thats how all new villains pop up, there's no build up, they just appear and we accept their existence. The Lich King originally came out of nowhere from a player's perspective in WCIII, we learned who he was and eventually we fought him later in WoW. Its the same thing and the Void Lords can't really apply here because we haven't really seen them, there's no actual detail of them except recently that one book the Natherzeim leave in Revandreath, its not like they popped up and we fought them, we haven't, only their creations. Zovaal is no different, he shows up and we don't know who he is. The Arbiter showed up being this entity that choses the afterlife for mortals. There was no build up for it either.

    People just need to accept new characters will pop up and need to be given time to get "build up" Shadowlands is all about Zovaal's build up.
    That's not really the same thing, though. The Lich King *has* a definitive origin, and it starts with a character with a known history and backstory: Ner'zhul the Elder Shaman. In that sense the Lich King wasn't an original character who came from nowhere, the Lich King was something that happened to Ner'zhul - namely being caught by Kil'jaeden and transformed into a new manner of being. Even in a new story a new villain needs build-up, there has to be some kind of backstory component that legitimizes the character as a threat to be concerned about, something to provoke essential buy-in from the consumer of said media. Zovaal has no build-up, and has no backstory that wasn't completely concurrent with his introduction. Zovaal's history with us is sketched, almost retconned into existence after the fact. He was never hinted at nor implied. The Arbiter doesn't need build-up because the Arbiter is an entirely tertiary character to the story, she exists as a plot element with almost no characterization (which is fine for what the Arbiter ultimately is and will likely be in the greater story-arc).

    The amount of build-up is relative to the length and breadth of the story. An entirely new world will introduce its greater scope villains relatively fast, but Warcraft is not an entirely new world, and so the requirements for build-up are necessarily greater than what was supplied for the Jailer as a character.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    This is a new Jailer model. Not a new Zovaal model. Maybe after Zovaal goes on a rampage, the eternal elect a new Jailer cause somebody has to look after the Maw.
    Zovaal’s name in game is the Jailer...

  15. #15
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,025
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Zovaal’s name in game is the Jailer...
    I think they mean that it's possibly the model of the NPC who replaces Zovaal (the current Jailer) after we defeat Zovaal in the final raid of the expansion.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    meh, a new form won't change the fact that he's a completely one note, uninteresting generic "I am evil kill all" villain. Though hey, if he does transform or w.e to that concept art form, at least he'd look interesting and have have some character from that
    its like you have been playing a different game,wow has never had a one note evil for evil's sake main villain...maybe guldan is the only one that comes close,but he was done so well that it doesnt even matter

  17. #17
    I certainly hope it'll be something more exciting than just the hole closing up. I want some oomph and hype worthy transformation.
    Last edited by bagina; 2021-04-26 at 10:09 PM.

  18. #18
    unless they start making these bosses with extra forms somewhat similar to like how resident evil treats their boss forms im not interested :P i loved how we had to fight a dragon that end up looking like a mess with a head and tentacles in cata !
    Now just imagine if we start fighting the jailer in his humanoid form and slowly changing him into something monstrus as we lower his hp ! !

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    I still don't get how a character that supposes to be the voice and influence behind LK Arthas is such a disappointing compare with LK Arthas, so far he seems as generic as freaking Death Wing
    Because we don't know much about him or his plans. We have just been introduced to him. A character doesn't need 14 books worth of build up to enter as a villain. He has been up to a LOT, enough to get him banished, transformed, imprisoned etc, we just don't fully know why YET. The reason for that is because they want to keep Sylvs motives and goals shrouded. It's a story that will unfold.

    Just get off this instant gratification train and let the story unravel, you seem like the kind of person to start asking questions 10 seconds into a movie because they keep back information to build intregue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    its like you have been playing a different game,wow has never had a one note evil for evil's sake main villain...maybe guldan is the only one that comes close,but he was done so well that it doesnt even matter
    They gave him motive in his Legion backstory. Broken and trampled, expelled from his clan. He doesn't want to be weak and helpless to anyone so he searches for power. That's not evil for evils sake, that's a terrified orc who will do anything to not be pushed around again.

  20. #20
    I'm telling you guys. He's going to resurrect Galakrond.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •