Jailer true form?

[TheFirstOnes]

You know Jailer raid will be around October 2022 with this info!

"Jailer raid"?

[Houle]

Who then tried to kill everyone on a planet. Just because someone has something bad happen in the past doesn't excuse doing evil shit purely because they are now evil.

I hate to invoke Godwin's law, but Hitler was once Time Person of the year. Would you say he wasn't evil?

that...still doesnt mean he was evil for the sake of being evil tho?
being evil for the sake of being evil means he had no reason to be evil, but he had PLENTY of reasons (being manipulated to doom his entire race, being tortured and then literally ripped apart, being turned into a death-demigod, being forced to help the legion all while knowing that theyll kill him in the end either way)
ner'zhul is as far from "evil for evils sake" as you can possibly get.
the void lords? i agree. the jailer so far? i agree.
but ner'zhul or arthas? both of their stories are literally the opposite. starting with good intentions, then forced down a path of evil.

and even then: ner'zhuls reason for doing evil shit as the LK was to survive (he knew kil'jaeden would kill him after the third war) and get revenge on kil'jaeden for literally ruining his life and people.

arthas reason for doing evil shit was first to protect his people, then to get revenge on mal'ganis for killing his people, then he got his soul stolen, and even then his plan as an LK was to unite an undead world against the legion.
now tell me, where exactly is any of that "evil bc LULZ"

[huth]

"Jailer raid"?

Yes. We're going to enter the Jailer through <unspecified lower orifice> and destroy him from within. Suspected Bosses: Heart of Domination, Brain of the Jailer, The Jailer's Future.


(Also, 'apart of' means the opposite of 'a part of'. Light and Void definitely aren't apart of the cosmos, they're a part of it.)

[TheFirstOnes]

Yes. We're going to enter the Jailer through <unspecified lower orifice> and destroy him from within. Suspected Bosses: Heart of Domination, Brain of the Jailer, The Jailer's Future.


(Also, 'apart of' means the opposite of 'a part of'. Light and Void definitely aren't apart of the cosmos, they're a part of it.)

Man, you and Darkoms keep correcting me on that.

Also, lol. Remember when people said we'll never face Sargeras cause his left foot was a raid on its own? Well...*Looks at the recent Lore + the Seat of the Pantheon* Ehehe...

He's next.

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And yes, I do think we'll beat tf outta Sargeras in some mini raid at the Seat of the Pantheon and Realm of Order, so he could stfu and be a part of our Voidslapping team. :3

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that...still doesnt mean he was evil for the sake of being evil tho?
being evil for the sake of being evil means he had no reason to be evil, but he had PLENTY of reasons (being manipulated to doom his entire race, being tortured and then literally ripped apart, being turned into a death-demigod, being forced to help the legion all while knowing that theyll kill him in the end either way)
ner'zhul is as far from "evil for evils sake" as you can possibly get.
the void lords? i agree. the jailer so far? i agree.
but ner'zhul or arthas? both of their stories are literally the opposite. starting with good intentions, then forced down a path of evil.

and even then: ner'zhuls reason for doing evil shit as the LK was to survive (he knew kil'jaeden would kill him after the third war) and get revenge on kil'jaeden for literally ruining his life and people.

arthas reason for doing evil shit was first to protect his people, then to get revenge on mal'ganis for killing his people, then he got his soul stolen, and even then his plan as an LK was to unite an undead world against the legion.
now tell me, where exactly is any of that "evil bc LULZ"

The Void Lords are a force of nature. They themselves are not "evil". The Jailer however is, cause he wants to rule and chain all of existence as like this supreme Death God. Mf hates the Cosmology and wants to top it.

[MatPandaZ]

i see you are ignoring me, so let me say again: this story has been going on since 2016.
if we keep this "movie" comparison, then we are in the middle of the third movie of a trilogy, and we still dont know what the first 2 movies were all about. which means ur entire point about people needing "patience" and watever is straight up bs, bc people had patience for 5 years now.

Seeds being planted is not the same. In a movie with no end you have to constantly sow seeds for future expansions to make it flow. We have only JUST been introduced to the Jailor. Prepatch was the transition from killing nzoth then into the shadowlands and meeting the Jailor. This 'arc' has only just officially begun and you are demanding the entire backstory and motives of the main villain. For all we know the covenants we side with are all worse than the Jailor and he was actually tricked and chained by something seeking to disturb the cosmic balance. By knowing the entire backstory of him right now would mean we already know not to trust the covenants we are a part of.

You are thinking of it having a beginning, middle and end when it isn't like that in a game like this, it is an evolving threat.

[huth]

Man, you and Darkoms keep correcting me on that.

[...]

And yes, I do think we'll beat tf outta Sargeras in some mini raid at the Seat of the Pantheon and Realm of Order, so he could stfu and be a part of our Voidslapping team. :3

Well, it is a rather important difference, since they're direct opposites in meaning.

Also, calling anything that can fit Sarge a 'mini' raid?

[rowaasr13]

its like you have been playing a different game,wow has never had a one note evil for evil's sake main villain...maybe guldan is the only one that comes close,but he was done so well that it doesnt even matter

Because a random guy that we meet for the first time that suddenly shouts at us: "death will claim you, you family, you dog and everything you know! har har har!" is so very complex and absolutely NOT stereotypical. Right.

Complex villains are made through showing viewers by showing deeds that can't be explained with simple "he's evil". So far Jailer didn't do a single thing that would need any extra explanation. But go ahead, try to name at least one thing he did.

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Just get off this instant gratification train and let the story unravel, you seem like the kind of person to start asking questions 10 seconds into a movie because they keep back information to build intregue.

Good idea, I will patiently wait for new info every week! That's obviously much better than 10 seconds, right? Much longer than full movie, even. Even one single fact would be fine. Except we got exactly zero info for a HALF FUCKING YEAR, so keep your "10 seconds" strawman to yourself.

And even that scraps of info we did get through story and covenant campaign doesn't change anything from his characterization. He is still someone who only does typical villain things: murder, capture, torture and brainwash for fuck knows what reason.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Could it be possible that Zovaal was the original Arbiter, and the "betrayal of his fellow Eternal Ones" he supposedly carried had something to do with job of assigning souls to specific realms?


I get the impression it's the artificial intelligence versus human error argument. It comes off to me that "Zovaal the Arbiter" made a judgment call/personal decision/maybe even selfish decision during one of his assigning-souls-to-realms job and it was so massive that it was construed as an act of betrayal by the other Eternal Ones. So they decided to take the source of the "Arbiter" power and put it in a robot instead to do the job.


And his "true" form as the acting-Arbiter was the old man with a beard art that was leaked.

/shrug


Speculative head canon.

[deenman]

Because a random guy that we meet for the first time that suddenly shouts at us: "death will claim you, you family, you dog and everything you know! har har har!" is so very complex and absolutely NOT stereotypical. Right.

Complex villains are made through showing viewers by showing deeds that can't be explained with simple "he's evil". So far Jailer didn't do a single thing that would need any extra explanation. But go ahead, try to name at least one thing he did.

agree,and we know next to nothing about him at this point,from the small hints we have been getting it seems he was wronged somehow,also his brand of death isnt like the standard ''ill kill you'',its like a code geass style of not actualy dying anymore

[rowaasr13]

> he was wronged somehow

So? "I suffered - now everyone uninvolved will suffer too!" is an ancient, aeons old trope of villain. Almost all villains have some excuse on why they became evil. This does not make them interesting, because nobody cares to feel sympathy to the scum.

> other type of death

"See, he doesn't simply kill, he chops victims in exactly 73 pieces!" Would you be interested in such a catching villain?

Who cares about details of his methods, when all he ever does is still murder, destroy, mindrape, grind remains of your souls into weapons and stuff? He's evil without a single redeeming trait. You never stop and think "he has a point!"

[bloodmoth13]

Would be great. If only because his current model is ridiculously comical. Maybe when he's "whole" again (retrieves that shit out of the Arbiter) he'll come back to his former self?

God I really hope they have some interesting twist in store. An evil guy, looking evil, sounding evil, with evil intentions, just wanting to do evil things, is so lame.

I really want him to secretly be the good guy and the arbiter is bad, or someone else and we were accidentally working for the wrong people. Something... jailer is awful, nobody cares about him and he just doesnt have any role in the story other than being the villian. You really cant just add a new villian with no seeding to the story without any build up and give him zero charisma or depth and have anyone be enthusiastic about him. Denathrius was fun being a camp demon vampire, hed make a better villian at this stage.

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I'm telling you guys. He's going to resurrect Galakrond.

They need to do something with galakrond, he's been hyped up as something super crazy strong yet it never went anywhere and the only way to make him work would be necromancy, time travel or maybe something to do with the plane of life if hes some kind of loa, but ideally we get giant world ending zombie dragon. Zombies are cool, dragons are cool, the first and biggest dragon ever is cool, so by the rule of cool it must happen. I cant think of any actual good reason to do it but because its cool is good enough.

[TickTickTick]

I really want him to secretly be the good guy and the arbiter is bad, or someone else and we were accidentally working for the wrong people. Something... jailer is awful, nobody cares about him and he just doesnt have any role in the story other than being the villian. You really cant just add a new villian with no seeding to the story without any build up and give him zero charisma or depth and have anyone be enthusiastic about him. Denathrius was fun being a camp demon vampire, hed make a better villian at this stage

Eh, I can't really see the Jailer as a good guy. I just want the rest of the guys to not be the good guys. But it's so obvious what will happen... Jailer wants Azeroth soul because everyone and their mother wants her apparently. So he lied to basically everyone about the "imprisonment", tricked Sylvanas into thinking what she thinks and voila - he has dumb puppets who can do his work outside the Maw. 9.1 he succeeds, 9.2 he invades Azeroth through Icecrown and we defeat him there. His presence will probably lure in some Light and Void powers, eager to destroy their great enemy, and this will then lead into Light vs Void expansion in 10.0.

[Stardrift]

I really want him to secretly be the good guy and the arbiter is bad, or someone else and we were accidentally working for the wrong people. Something... jailer is awful, nobody cares about him and he just doesnt have any role in the story other than being the villian. You really cant just add a new villian with no seeding to the story without any build up and give him zero charisma or depth and have anyone be enthusiastic about him. Denathrius was fun being a camp demon vampire, hed make a better villian at this stage.

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They need to do something with galakrond, he's been hyped up as something super crazy strong yet it never went anywhere and the only way to make him work would be necromancy, time travel or maybe something to do with the plane of life if hes some kind of loa, but ideally we get giant world ending zombie dragon. Zombies are cool, dragons are cool, the first and biggest dragon ever is cool, so by the rule of cool it must happen. I cant think of any actual good reason to do it but because its cool is good enough.

I mean, the LK, a puppet of the Jailer, was trying to resurrect Galakrond for a reason

Not to mention Wrathion's return from the Dragon Isles, Bolvar ordering the genocide of red dragons, Ysera's return, Infinite Dragonflight appearing in 9.1, and that totally not suspicious cinematic leak that may or may not take place in Dragonblight...

Wonder what kind of soul, or how many souls, or combined could revive such a massive creature.

[bloodmoth13]

Eh, I can't really see the Jailer as a good guy. I just want the rest of the guys to not be the good guys. But it's so obvious what will happen... Jailer wants Azeroth soul because everyone and their mother wants her apparently. So he lied to basically everyone about the "imprisonment", tricked Sylvanas into thinking what she thinks and voila - he has dumb puppets who can do his work outside the Maw. 9.1 he succeeds, 9.2 he invades Azeroth through Icecrown and we defeat him there. His presence will probably lure in some Light and Void powers, eager to destroy their great enemy, and this will then lead into Light vs Void expansion in 10.0.

Dont get me wrong, hes completely evil, but hes missing something from his chest, it could be he was a normal being split in two and his 'good' half being the arbiter was set to judge all souls while his 'evil' side was left to jail the damned.
His success could just be becoming whole then being able to move on from pure evil to something more nuanced.

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I mean, the LK, a puppet of the Jailer, was trying to resurrect Galakrond for a reason

Not to mention Wrathion's return from the Dragon Isles, Bolvar ordering the genocide of red dragons, Ysera's return, Infinite Dragonflight appearing in 9.1, and that totally not suspicious cinematic leak that may or may not take place in Dragonblight...

Wonder what kind of soul, or how many souls, or combined could revive such a massive creature.

Huh, the dragons have all been kind of pushed back for a bit but that could almost seem like seeds for the next xpac...

[Keenii]

That image looks like the Primus

[VinceVega]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-enc...9-1-ptr-322045

Is encrypted, it means...



This form will be his true form?

Did they not explicitly say that this was a earlie version they discarded becaus they did not want create another old bearded big guy like every freaking game has?

[Verdugo]

Did they not explicitly say that this was a earlie version they discarded becaus they did not want create another old bearded big guy like every freaking game has?

So instead they made boring, obviously evil bald guy that spits out one liners so generic that even Fox Kids cartoons cringe.

[VinceVega]

So instead they made boring, obviously evil bald guy that spits out one liners so generic that even Fox Kids cartoons cringe.

Just leave me alone dude.

[UndedoKoleda]

I mean, the LK, a puppet of the Jailer, was trying to resurrect Galakrond for a reason

Except that the LK wasn't a puppet of the Jailer anymore, at the time he was trying to resurrect Galakrond.

Dont get me wrong, hes completely evil, but hes missing something from his chest, it could be he was a normal being split in two and his 'good' half being the arbiter was set to judge all souls while his 'evil' side was left to jail the damned.
His success could just be becoming whole then being able to move on from pure evil to something more nuanced.

I feel like this might be one of the very few outcomes that could "save" SL story-wise. We already saw that Uther's soul was split, having Jailer's one split as well could explain why is he acting like a generic cartoon villain with no personality.

Having no background prior to this expansion is not an excuse. Look at Denathrius, for instance, he had no background as well, but he is miles ahead and people actually like him as a villain(even tho it's not explained why exactly is he working with the Jailer, OR is he the one orchestrating things and actually PLAYING the Jailer for his own benefit).

[Sondrelk]

You can leave a character in mystery for a later time, but you still need to know something tangible about him. Currently we really only know for certain that the other covenant leaders know him and that he feels betrayed.

Was he the previous arbiter? Was there an afterlife supercontinent that he ruled along with the others? Did he lead a specific covenant area that was later destroyed?

We don't know anything in that sense. Forget about what his greater plans are, we don't even know what his current plans mean for us.
It could mean the destruction of the Shadowlands, it could mean he simply escapes. For all we know his plans are literally just to kill Azeroth.

His interesting qualities are almost entirely tied to other characters we know from before like Ner'zhul and Arthas.