Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The forums
    Posts
    36,886
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in some way, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    Jesus this constant "casual" and "normal path of progression" bs pisses me off. So there are several ways to get gear? Big deal. Suck it up.

    ......because if you want a "normal path of progression", advocate for removing mythic+, as the "normal path of progression" should not give raid gear from 5 mans.

    I am fine with how it is. I got ilv 197 gear without doing random 5 mans or PuG raids and it seriously should not affect all you gods out there who are in ilv 215-230 or so. In fact, now that WQs actually reward valor, I want to be able to upgrade my covenant gear with valor. I mean...if the idea is that valor will only upgrade gear from mythic dungeons, well...then that currency should also only come from mythic dungeons ^^

    But maybe I am out of the loop how it works on the ptr now.

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Constantinople
    Posts
    1,973
    Making it so players who either don't have the time or prefer solo style have no viable path forward is not going to help the game as a whole. I for one have been subbed since end of classic and until Shadowlands, was reasonably satisfied with gear progression as a more solo style player. Shadowlands offers no path forward unless you have the time/guild/desire to complete group content. Both fully upgraded covenant gear and fully upgraded non-rated pvp gear is garbage.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  3. #43
    What the fuck? Complaints about Casuals needing to hardcore grind at level 60 for about 12 hours of /played time in order to get ~200 ilvl on day 1 then having nothing else to do?

    That’s not a casual gameplay there.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    20 Miles to Texas, 25 to Hell
    Posts
    5,801
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    The covenant gear is not nearly that easy to do. When launch happened you were timegated by the covenant campaign to get your pieces and raise the upgrade cap. Even then the anima cost to upgrade them was quite steep. Even now it will take you several days of grind catchup, do campaign, grind catchup to max out. Normals are for levelling up, once you're max their purpose is over. Also covenant pieces don't cover every slot. You still need world bosses, LFR, mythics, etc for the slots covenant doesn't cover. Also world quests don't give 194 until renown 29.

    In short, you're exaggerating how quickly covenant gear comes in order to suit your agenda.
    They're not wrong. Think it took my alt about 7 hours after hitting 60 to have most of my gear set like they described.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Where Thrall and the Horde needs me to be
    Posts
    22,685
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    Not true, you simply can't get all those renown ranks in "a few hours". As for WQ's, you'd still need those for rings, trinkets, necks, cloaks and a shield/offhand depending on the weapon you chose to get from your 187.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Apparently you forgot with crafters mark 2 you can have a full set of 168 gear right out the gate, tailor suited for your spec, as well as weapons until you finish your covenant campaign.

    Dark moon trinkets are cheap too, giving you an automatic 200 ilvl item for one of those slots too

    You can almost immediately jump into heroics as a result, then into lfr.

    Yet the covenant sets you gotta dump anima into are the problem?
    Wait what, there are craftable 168 weapons?

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  6. #46
    You need anima for so many things frankly it seemed easier to me to just spend the anima on other things and just do a few heroics and the like to work that gear level up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    You need anima for so many things frankly it seemed easier to me to just spend the anima on other things and just do a few heroics and the like to work that gear level up.
    Id argue that the power level increase from having 197 gear would save you time acquiring the anima. Tbh tho I think all the sanctum upgrades and cosmetics are worthless except for the travel network for the portal. Just for me tho.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Not true, you simply can't get all those renown ranks in "a few hours". As for WQ's, you'd still need those for rings, trinkets, necks, cloaks and a shield/offhand depending on the weapon you chose to get from your 187.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wait what, there are craftable 168 weapons?
    You shld have 4 from lvling if u did ToF on an alt. 1 from a quick 5 souls. 1 from the 1k animq quest you'll complete passively. 2 from the 2 dungeons u do for the 750 animq quest. 1 from sire lfr for 1250 anima quest. A calling might be completed from one of those 2 dungeons quest. And I personally do the other 3 wings of lfr for the easy anima to finish the required amount to upgrade to full 197. Will prob get one renown from half to most bosses. Ull get enough from doing the campaign as well that I have never actually hit a wall.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    You're missing the 197(or is it 194) gear from logging into the mobile app and doing the mission table to fill in the missing, epic gear pieces. No need to even login to the game, but there is the lack of queuing that's missing.

  9. #49
    When I see threads like this i wonder. Do people just sit in their spare time and think "oh what could we do to solve these other people's problems that don't concern me"?

    I think we would get stuff solved much faster if people would only talk about their own issue, to try to present solutions they would like. Not get 90% of ppl not really telling what their issues are, going roundabout about generic population segments like "new players" and "casuals" and whatnot. And proposing solutions that largely make little sense if you were actually part of the targeted population.
    Because of this, proper feedback gets drowned out and nothing ever gets solved.
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2021-04-27 at 04:33 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    When I see threads like this i wonder. Do people just sit in their spare time and think "oh what could we do to solve these other people's problems that don't concern me"?

    I think we would get stuff solved much faster if people would only talk about their own issue, to try to present solutions they would like. Not get 90% of ppl not really telling what their issues are, going roundabout about generic population segements like "new players" and "casuals" and whatnot. And proposing solutions that largely make little sense if you were actually part of the targeted population.
    Because of this, proper feedback gets drowned out and nothing ever gets solved.
    Tbh, I've got a lot of downtime at work and so I've been reading these forums more. The "theme" of these forums the past couple weeks has been some weird casuals vs elitist fight. Seen about 5 dif definitions of casuals. One main theme I've seen is "casuals" (however thats defined) don't actually want higher ilvl loot, they just want progression. My solution wouldn't give them higher ilvl, but would give them the progression they want. Wanted to see if they preferred progression over easy gear.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    Dude what are you even talking abouuuuuuuut
    Dear lord how is covenant gear deserving a nerf, and why is that even important.
    I would literally be fine after you finish campain to give people ilvl 205 or 210 just to let them play with friends.
    The gear won't make them good players.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Dude what are you even talking abouuuuuuuut
    Dear lord how is covenant gear deserving a nerf, and why is that even important.
    I would literally be fine after you finish campain to give people ilvl 205 or 210 just to let them play with friends.
    The gear won't make them good players.
    Its not about the actual ilvl. Its about the ilvl in relation to normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, mythic dungeons, LFR, world quests. All of those are worthless after ~10 hours because of the ilvl disparity.

  13. #53
    Is anyone really using cov gear besides alts/heavy casuals players?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?

    You paint a quick and easy picture of "casuals" getting 197 iLvL gear. So are you trying to run off more people from this game?? Are you trying to keep people bored then they already are?? And are trying to make it more harder to gear a toon more then it already is?? Thank God you are NOT the one running this game.

    Trying to gear, and hope you get what you want, is already a migraine headache and then some. What you propose seems just another way for people to log in and do more but get very very little in reward. I doubt I speak for everyone but I am sure I speak for some...THAT IS JUST BULLSHIT. Trying to get blizzard to make any kind of fun in this game is like pulling teeth and nails. I am sorry but what you propose is just stupid and will just run off more people from the boredom they are already experiencing.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    You paint a quick and easy picture of "casuals" getting 197 iLvL gear. So are you trying to run off more people from this game?? Are you trying to keep people bored then they already are?? And are trying to make it more harder to gear a toon more then it already is?? Thank God you are NOT the one running this game.

    Trying to gear, and hope you get what you want, is already a migraine headache and then some. What you propose seems just another way for people to log in and do more but get very very little in reward. I doubt I speak for everyone but I am sure I speak for some...THAT IS JUST BULLSHIT. Trying to get blizzard to make any kind of fun in this game is like pulling teeth and nails. I am sorry but what you propose is just stupid and will just run off more people from the boredom they are already experiencing.
    If you are the type of casual that only does queued content, how do you progress your character?

  16. #56
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,303
    I think Covenant gear is actually extremely expensive to get to 197 and if you've farmed all that Anima and done the entire Campaign then by all means get that gear. But just for upgrading from 184 to 197 all 9 pieces thats 2250 Anima, which most people won't spend directly on their gear, they may upgrade their Sanctum as well, fund missions or do other things. Bear in the mind that most new players will be getting an average of 70 Anima per World Quest so it's definitely not a quick set of gear. Prior to 9.0.5 it was honestly hard to get even 1000 Anima a week if I didn't focus on it and you were gated on upgrading and getting it by the Campaign.

    Also in the same matter you can also upgrade Honor PVP gear to 197 in a similar fashion so why is Covenant Gear the issue? It's very supplemental and in the early parts of Shadowlands M0 and World Bosses were best gear, LFR was gated as well. All paths of the game had their part and all were gated by Blizzard, LFR and Nathria had gated releases, PVP Season didn't start for a few Weeks, M+ was gated Weekly by Vault Rewards, World Quests, PVP Honor and Covenant Armour were gated by Weekly Renown.

    Covenant Gear sticks below the 200 ilvl barrier were content generally becomes more organised M+, Raids and Rated PVP take over. Most players get stuck around that item level because that's when you need to do content that is challenging or time consuming. Most people will get to around this or a little higher because of a Legendary and stop there.

    As much as people will criticize this but BFA was less brutal in this aspect. If memory serves correct World Quests Callings gave rewards at the same ilvl at normal Ny'alotha and World Quest gear was more exciting and blured the lines due to Titanforging. PVP Gear mattered much less due to scaling and by the end of BFA you could get extremely good gear from Visions which Torghast does not.

    At the end of the day, Covenant Armour isn't a problem. It's reasonably expensive to upgrade and makes a nice supplemental set until you get better. I have Alts who use bits of it despite having done M+15s alongside Honor Gear, World Quest Gear and Gear from the Weekend Events (4 x Mythic Dungeon).
    Dristereau - Axxolentus - Somniare

    Thundereau - Eviscereau - Nulo - Nebouskii - Desterrar

    Shadowsong/Aszune - Tarren-Mill/Dentarg - Silvermoon

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Its not about the actual ilvl. Its about the ilvl in relation to normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, mythic dungeons, LFR, world quests. All of those are worthless after ~10 hours because of the ilvl disparity.
    LoL.what. How are dungeons worthless?? Do a mythic +7 and up and then they won't be worthless at all. Your answer makes little to no sense at all. And out of all the shit going on in WoW, how is covenant gear a discussion.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  18. #58
    "They should have made gearing through Dungeons (N) (H) (M+) more lucrative"

    There fixed the title.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If you are the type of casual that only does queued content, how do you progress your character?
    You do the world boss and any epic calling and hope RNGesus hooks you up. Your best bet is to quit and come back in another patch the gives you better loot from LFR and Wq's.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If you are the type of casual that only does queued content, how do you progress your character?
    I run Mythic +14's and higher, Heroic raiding, and Mythic Raiding. Last I checked neither were hard to get into if you have a OK guild.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •