Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #121
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Constantinople
    Posts
    1,972
    Blizz and the 'hardcore' and 'wannabe hardcore' crowd should be pushing for the casual crowd to have a path to higher ilvl gear, not restricting it. The casual crowd is who pay the bills at Blizz, not the hardcore boost sellers.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  2. #122
    Covenant gear, WQ rewards, Mission Table loot, they've all replaced the LFD Spam (Heroic Dungeons + Badge gear) of old as a form of soloable (solo queue) catchup gear. The problem is, after the initial launch time gating has lapsed, players can achieve 200 ilvl (give or take) in a few days or less.

    This is a mistake IMO as Blizzard need to recognise (or accept) that some players simply do not want to step into M+ or Raiding and by replacing LFD with Solo WQ gear these players quickly run out content an unsub.

    I raid and run keys on my main, but I've never really been bothered trying to keep an Alt up with my mains progress, so I to enjoyed the old LFD gearing on Alts and find the Solo WQ gearing system incredibly boring.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Not sure why you see 2/3 of the dungeon difficulties being useless as that's the OPPOSITE of what I said. Normal dungeons at level 60 can drop memories just at a lower chance. That means that even normal difficulties have a chance at memories dropping. Grats on doing the covenant gear upgrade 3 times. I've done it 6 times on the Horde side and 3 times on the Alliance side (picture below for my Horde 60's). My Alliance still haven't upgraded their covenant gear because of not enough anima and 2 of my Horde haven't either for the same reason. So your claim that simply doing the SD & TOP gives you enough anima to upgrade the covenant gear is bullshit. I've also completed the Sire Denathrius quest from picking up Remornia which rewards 1250 anima. Even with all three of those quests done, you don't have enough anima to upgrade every single piece of covenant gear to the 197 max. You still are failing to address the fact that rings, necks, and trinkets are ALL needed to be obtained OUTSIDE of covenant gear quests as covenant gear does NOT include those needed slots.

    I covered that in the OP. You do the off pieces with honor. Shldnt take more than a few hours. Do the daily bg win, epic bg win, and skirmish win. As well as the quests, the weekly ones and the ones in epic bg. And like I said, do the dungeon on your preferred difficulty and ignore the other 2. Or ignore all 3 if you dont need any memories from dungeons.

    And like I said in the other post if you read the thread, the 2750 anima from quests, along with what you get from LFR, shld be more than enough. Especially if u do the daily bg wins like I told u because they grant anima too.

    Its fine if you dont know the best way to do it. I assume most casuals dont. But my point still stands that if you do know the fastest way, theres less than a days worth of content before you hit the progression wall. At which pt u can do epic callings abt twice a week for a chance at 203. Or world boss once a week at low chance of 207

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I am of the opinion that they will either update the cov sets, or introduce other catch up gear that is just as easy next patch. Bringing them up to the same relative ilvl that will once again invalidate all the same previous content.

    Thats just my guess tho. We will see.
    LFR pretty much takes over though. The Cov sets only benefit you in the field whereas Tier gear will benefit you everywhere.

  5. #125
    Mechagnome Sagenod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    The Upside Down
    Posts
    708
    Once again we have an example of a player that dedicates more time to the game than many other people, and thinks the game should be tailored to suit their extensive play sessions. News flash, friend: Most of the playerbase is casual and cannot spend multiple hours a day playing the game. Why don't you consider that other people also play the game, for a change? It's tiresome to see this "elitism" in something as trivial as a video game playerbase.
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    WHAT ? you want to remove that too from casual ? lol what next ? remove all green bleu from them and just let casual wear white stuff LULW
    my gosh, raider peoples are really cancer in this game

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Once again we have an example of a player that dedicates more time to the game than many other people, and thinks the game should be tailored to suit their extensive play sessions. News flash, friend: Most of the playerbase is casual and cannot spend multiple hours a day playing the game. Why don't you consider that other people also play the game, for a change? It's tiresome to see this "elitism" in something as trivial as a video game playerbase.
    I'm saying based on the content available, ppl that do solo content or only queued content have less than a full day worth of content. If that takes u 3 months to do thats great. But it invalidates all the earlier content and ur left with nothing to do to progress ur char

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    WHAT ? you want to remove that too from casual ? lol what next ? remove all green bleu from them and just let casual wear white stuff LULW
    my gosh, raider peoples are really cancer in this game
    I dont raid lmao

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?

    You're acting as if everybody starts with 40 renown. You can only upgrade covenant gear as you complete chapters. You can only complete chapters after reaching the renown checkpoint. It's mathematically impossible to get to the gearpoint you're saying "within a few hours". Callings and LFR bosses don't have guaranteed renown drops. Your luck is based entirely on RNG. You can't even get a legendary week 1 unless you do both Torghast wings on Level 8 along with the base torghast quest (plus finding the memory you need).

    You're also using the made up definition you created in your own head for "casual". You have no idea what content someone chooses to do with the little time they have. Maybe people are pushing heroics with the 2-3 hours a week they have to play.

    Personally I think this is a terrible argument.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    You're acting as if everybody starts with 40 renown. You can only upgrade covenant gear as you complete chapters. You can only complete chapters after reaching the renown checkpoint. It's mathematically impossible to get to the gearpoint you're saying "within a few hours". Callings and LFR bosses don't have guaranteed renown drops. Your luck is based entirely on RNG. You can't even get a legendary week 1 unless you do both Torghast wings on Level 8 along with the base torghast quest (plus finding the memory you need).

    You're also using the made up definition you created in your own head for "casual". You have no idea what content someone chooses to do with the little time they have. Maybe people are pushing heroics with the 2-3 hours a week they have to play.

    Personally I think this is a terrible argument.
    I've done this 3x on alts. Hitting full 197 in under 24 hours played every single time. Usually about half that.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I've done this 3x on alts. Hitting full 197 in under 24 hours played every single time. Usually about half that.
    Yeah and you wrote an entire synopsis on how you went about it. That's not what casuals do. You did a grind to gear as fast as possible to discredit the things others have to do with less time in a session. And unless you're starting with 10+ renown at 60 you're not getting WQs, Honor, and Cov gear to 197 in a day.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    Yeah and you wrote an entire synopsis on how you went about it. That's not what casuals do. You did a grind to gear as fast as possible to discredit the things others have to do with less time in a session. And unless you're starting with 10+ renown at 60 you're not getting WQs, Honor, and Cov gear to 197 in a day.
    In a day /played. 10 lfr bosses. Multiple bgs. 2 dungeons. A few callings. 2 torghast runs. Souls quest. 1k anima quest. 7 campaign quests. That shld be all the renown and anima gear u need to get gear to 197.

    I'm not implying most ppl play this way. Just explaining why ppl complain about a lack of progression for their preferred playstyle and why the inflated ilvl on the cov gear is the cause of it because of just how much content it allows u to skip

  12. #132
    Pandaren Monk bryroo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,943
    It seems like every other post on these forums is an obsession over another player's gear.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by bryroo View Post
    It seems like every other post on these forums is an obsession over another player's gear.
    It's because people still think that gear is an evaluation of skill. It's really an archaic concept but it's still dogmatically believed to be true. Unfortunately there are also people on WoW's dev team that still think this way as well.

    You'll see it in the form of "Why do you need better gear if you aren't doing harder content?" and "Raiding should give better gear than anywhere else".

    It's understanding the separation between rewards based on skill and progression that is independent of content. The dogmatic people see progression outside of skill as wrong whereas the people looking for progression outside of high end m+ and raiding are just abandoning their characters or quitting.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    In a day /played. 10 lfr bosses. Multiple bgs. 2 dungeons. A few callings. 2 torghast runs. Souls quest. 1k anima quest. 7 campaign quests. That shld be all the renown and anima gear u need to get gear to 197.

    I'm not implying most ppl play this way. Just explaining why ppl complain about a lack of progression for their preferred playstyle and why the inflated ilvl on the cov gear is the cause of it because of just how much content it allows u to skip
    That's 24 hours of play time though. If somebody is playing an hour a day on average, which I'd consider casual, they'd still be pushing a month's worth of gearing to still not even be 200. This is of course hypothetical but if I spent a month playing a game I'd definitely want to be able to at least decently geared by the end, which is what the covenant armor does for those people.

    I see where you're coming from however. I finished leveling my warlock and had him ready to go in LFR in an hour. There's definitely a drop off for gear in both quality/quantity after that first run through though unless you're pushing keys (which I don't enjoy). He's up to about 205 now after 2 weeks of rl time.

    I truly believe that the covenant armor is a big help for people that want to be at least somewhat competitive in casual settings and I like that you absolutely have to work harder to get anything better (rated PVP, raiding, keys). It's a good balance for everyone. Reasonable goals for the casual player and quick gear for the hardcore player that wants to get into endgame content faster.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfaheart View Post
    That's 24 hours of play time though. If somebody is playing an hour a day on average, which I'd consider casual, they'd still be pushing a month's worth of gearing to still not even be 200. This is of course hypothetical but if I spent a month playing a game I'd definitely want to be able to at least decently geared by the end, which is what the covenant armor does for those people.

    I see where you're coming from however. I finished leveling my warlock and had him ready to go in LFR in an hour. There's definitely a drop off for gear in both quality/quantity after that first run through though unless you're pushing keys (which I don't enjoy). He's up to about 205 now after 2 weeks of rl time.

    I truly believe that the covenant armor is a big help for people that want to be at least somewhat competitive in casual settings and I like that you absolutely have to work harder to get anything better (rated PVP, raiding, keys). It's a good balance for everyone. Reasonable goals for the casual player and quick gear for the hardcore player that wants to get into endgame content faster.
    Thats true that its like a month of content if u do an hour a day. But if all u do is queued content or solo content, uve had no reason to be subbed the past 3 or so months. Thats the only pt I was making.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duese View Post
    It's because people still think that gear is an evaluation of skill. It's really an archaic concept but it's still dogmatically believed to be true. Unfortunately there are also people on WoW's dev team that still think this way as well.

    You'll see it in the form of "Why do you need better gear if you aren't doing harder content?" and "Raiding should give better gear than anywhere else".

    It's understanding the separation between rewards based on skill and progression that is independent of content. The dogmatic people see progression outside of skill as wrong whereas the people looking for progression outside of high end m+ and raiding are just abandoning their characters or quitting.
    I'm personally of the opinion that gear you get from content, shld be good enough to allow you to beat the content and step into the next difficulty level. Blizzard has shared my opinion for 16 years now. Some ppl think all content, no matter the difficulty, shld eventually get u to the best geared. This has never been the case unless you consider outdated content from previous patches or legacy xpacs.

    Even saw a comment how its not fair that a mythic geared person can do worldquests 3x as fast as someone who only does world quests. If all you're doing is world quests, game design will never allow you to speed thru it. Ppl in 226 can speed thru a +2 or normal raid boss. Cause that content is below their skill level. They cannot speed thru the content at their skill level. Thats by design.

    The gear you get from your content is good enough. If better gear didn't exist, ud be happy playing your game. But u see someone with better gear and get envious. That gear isn't locked from you. You just have to do the content.

  16. #136
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    8,306
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Once again we have an example of a player that dedicates more time to the game than many other people, and thinks the game should be tailored to suit their extensive play sessions. News flash, friend: Most of the playerbase is casual and cannot spend multiple hours a day playing the game. Why don't you consider that other people also play the game, for a change? It's tiresome to see this "elitism" in something as trivial as a video game playerbase.
    Well, the current game director has a heavy bias towards hardcore players, so they can't help but to feel entitled to having the game catered entirely for them. This kind of players goes to the extreme of considering the covenant sets "overpowered", and demand to nerf them - because it's clear that casuals shouldn't get anything beyond heroic dungeons gear
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Well, the current game director has a heavy bias towards hardcore players, so they can't help but to feel entitled to having the game catered entirely for them. This kind of players goes to the extreme of considering the covenant sets "overpowered", and demand to nerf them - because it's clear that casuals shouldn't get anything beyond heroic dungeons gear
    No. If ud read the thread it has nothing to do with that. It's how it relates to the ilvl of N/H/M0 dungeons, LFR, and world quests. Effectively negating them as sources of progression. But you seem to misinterpret every thread you're in and hate the way wow gearing philosophy has been for its entire existence so im not surprised lmao

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

    This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

    The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

    The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

    If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?
    That is the opposite of what they should do, honestly.
    In fact it seems like a sort of twisted time-gate for casuals in order to avoid having to address their lack of progression options.

    Good players don't need better gear to widen the gap with casual players.
    To get something shiny and rewarding is fine but to reward them in such a way that the winners, whether through luck, skill or overinvestment of time (or money), will have an ever-increasing advantage over their casual peers is counterproductive, especially in pvp, where it just stimulates nonparticipation as the season progresses and gaps widen.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #139
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    8,306
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    No. If ud read the thread it has nothing to do with that. It's how it relates to the ilvl of N/H/M0 dungeons, LFR, and world quests. Effectively negating them as sources of progression. But you seem to misinterpret every thread you're in and hate the way wow gearing philosophy has been for its entire existence so im not surprised lmao
    This "gearing philosophy" of yours has never existed, not even in Vanilla/BC. Getting raid entry gear is easily doable in Classic, and raids themselves are fairly easy to clear. Furthermore, you can get some nice items outside raids, either through dungeons or professions. Ditto for BC, to an even greater degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This "gearing philosophy" of yours has never existed, not even in Vanilla/BC. Getting raid entry gear is easily doable in Classic, and raids themselves are fairly easy to clear. Furthermore, you can get some nice items outside raids, either through dungeons or professions. Ditto for BC, to an even greater degree.
    So you're agreeing that historically, raid entry gear has come mostly thru dungeons with a few pieces from professions?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •