View Poll Results: Is the Alliance or the Horde the true "family" of World of Warcraft?

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  • The Horde is the true family

    21 24.42%
  • The Alliance is the true family

    32 37.21%
  • They are both true families, in different ways

    33 38.37%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    • The Horde historically has a violent transition in power every 2 years, with Thrall to Garrosh being the only peaceful transition of power.
    • The Horde under Blackhand squashed the Frostwolf tribe for not going along with genocide. "What, you're not going to help us eat Draenei babies and pave the path to the Dark Portal with Draenei bones? You're a traitor to Orc-kind and should be eliminated!". There was a lot of infighting, and after Blackhand died at Blackrock mountain, the Horde disintegrated. Lots of Orc on Orc violence in the decades after. The Horde lost the war in BFA, and already the Mag'har Orcs want to try to fight the Alliance again (despite the Alliance having won every single war against the Horde).
    • The Troll tribes sure like to fight with each other.
    • The Forsaken regularly murder and torture their own family members for the crime of... not joining a horrendously evil regime.
    • Goblins habitually sell their own mothers for pocketchange. Gallywix was a slave trader.
    • Every Horde player is guilty of betraying their Warchief. Twice.
    • Each time the Alliance beats the Horde, the Horde is at risk of fracturing and requires extraordinary changes in leadership in order to try to keep it together.

    Contrast that with the Alliance:
    • Have been allies firmly united together for the past 30+ years.
    • Except for the assassination of King Menethil and Llane Wyrnn, all transistions of power have been peaceful. No head of state has been killed by another Alliance member.
    • Has their shit together.
    • Collaborates to build up their industry and restore each other's lands and accommodate each other.

    "There is only one Alliance, but there has been 7 different Hordes."
    Largely, this is because the writers can't be bothered with writing Alliance, so after vanilla, they just became the Humans and their Best Pals Club. In vanilla, there was tension and some internal problems, including Onyxia's plans to shatter human society and alienate them from the rest of the Alliance. TBC focused heavily on the Horde, since they were "going home". Wrath, if it mentioned the factions had High King Dipshit I building statues and being pissed off, while Horde had Garrosh foaming at the mouth and cutting off Thrall's balls publicly at every chance. From Cata onwards, Horde fully drives the story with Alliance reduced to NPCs and plot devices. The writers gobble up the GOT style drama and produce a comic book level version of it within the Horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  2. #22
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Also:

    Horde cutscenes about the Horde fighting amongst itself
    • Wrathgate
    • Goblin cinematics (2)
    • Siege
    • Nagrand
    • BFA prepatch
    • Warbringers Sylvanas
    • all Saurfang cinematics (4)

    11 total pre-rendered cutscenes about Horde vs Horde infighting.


    Alliance cutscenes about Alliance vs Alliance infighting: zero

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    That's certainly the stated intent, but what they show makes all of that pure bullshit. The Alliance formed in response to a demon fueled army of monsters that later expected everyone to just forget about the masses they slaughtered and places they burned.

    Outcasts my foot.

    Trolls are incredibly xenophobic and have a massive superiority complex, historically attacking on sight and eating any other humanoids. Oddly enough, that doesn't do wonders for their social calendars with other races. Outside the Horde, that largely hasn't changed. Inside the Horde, they merrily go along with every slaughter du jour and just like Orcs, wonder why people fear and hate them. Can't imagine why people would fear and hate serial killers...

    Tauren have increasingly been shown to be fools for staying in the Horde, as Cairne is dead and his oath was to Thrall. They're simply thought of as dumb muscle by the Garrosh types. They're judged for going along with the Horde chimp outs, with only Baine ineffectively protesting. (In before the Baine foaming at the mouth hate posts)

    Goblins are canonically despised by Azeroth herself for destroying everything they get near. They're not family, they use the rest of the Horde as muscle and meat shields.

    Blood Elves are Horde for Kael'thas pouting and blaming the entire Alliance for one jackass human. They've flirted with leaving multiple times because they view the rest of the Horde as barbarians and beasts.

    Undead are Horde because Tauren are stupid and thought you can cure death and decomposition. From vanilla onwards, it was made clear the Forsaken are using the Horde for protection, not any real loyalty.

    Zandalari are Horde because BfA was a train wreck that was transporting industrial waste.

    Pandas are Horde because it was MoP's gimmick. There ought to be stories about pandas conflicted about killing friends and family who chose Alliance, but all logic goes out the window for the idiotic faction divide.

    Nightborne are Horde because Thalyssra was lobotomized at the end of Legion and they wanted Horde to have a non Blood Elf model.



    The Horde might have been family in WC3 and Thrall era, but now it's composed of races that by all rights should be at each others' throats. In before someone completely fails to understand my point is Blizz SAYS one thing and SHOWS us something else entirely.
    There were stories though? That was a plot point brought up repeatedly with Aaysa Cloudsinger and Ji throughout the expansion.

  4. #24
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    The Horde has had its Warchief try to subjugate half of its races twice, leading to mutiny and literal civil war like twice now, forcing Alliance interference both times, so I think the answer is pretty obvious with this one. The Alliance is a closer-knight society of races leaving in unison than The Horde has been or ever will be.

  5. #25
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    There were stories though? That was a plot point brought up repeatedly with Aaysa Cloudsinger and Ji throughout the expansion.
    No, it wasn't. We got Varian's stern lecture to Aysa about how if she were to join, she'd have to fight against Pandaren who choose the other side. After that, no Tushui or Huojin Pandaren appear again until Siege, when Aysa rescues Ji. There is literally not one single quest or scene in the entire game where you see Horde Pandas fighting Alliance Pandas.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The only way the horde could be a family is if it’s an abusive one where the kids are scared to talk out against the Parents for a fear of being beaten or kicked out.
    I mean there is a whole questline in the Vulpera recruitment process that has you breaking up a peon strike and beating up the union boss.

  7. #27
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    • The Horde historically has a violent transition in power every 2 years, with Thrall to Garrosh being the only peaceful transition of power.
    • The Horde under Blackhand squashed the Frostwolf tribe for not going along with genocide. "What, you're not going to help us eat Draenei babies and pave the path to the Dark Portal with Draenei bones? You're a traitor to Orc-kind and should be eliminated!". There was a lot of infighting, and after Blackhand died at Blackrock mountain, the Horde disintegrated. Lots of Orc on Orc violence in the decades after. The Horde lost the war in BFA, and already the Mag'har Orcs want to try to fight the Alliance again (despite the Alliance having won every single war against the Horde).
    • The Troll tribes sure like to fight with each other.
    • The Forsaken regularly murder and torture their own family members for the crime of... not joining a horrendously evil regime.
    • Goblins habitually sell their own mothers for pocketchange. Gallywix was a slave trader.
    • Every Horde player is guilty of betraying their Warchief. Twice.
    • Each time the Alliance beats the Horde, the Horde is at risk of fracturing and requires extraordinary changes in leadership in order to try to keep it together.

    Contrast that with the Alliance:
    • Have been allies firmly united together for the past 30+ years.
    • Except for the assassination of King Menethil and Llane Wyrnn, all transistions of power have been peaceful. No head of state has been killed by another Alliance member.
    • Has their shit together.
    • Collaborates to build up their industry and restore each other's lands and accommodate each other.

    "There is only one Alliance, but there has been 7 different Hordes."
    And then we have those folks with the gall to claim Horde Bias
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    I breaking up a peon strike and beating up the union boss.
    And thats what we do irl if we are underpaid. Its like reality amirite!

  9. #29
    TL;DR most of it but my gist is this: in WoW you can't have one without the other. It just won't work. It'd just be boring as hell.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    And then we have those folks with the gall to claim Horde Bias
    I'm sorry you don't understand two basic facts:
    - The writers prefer to write for the Horde and have openly stated that. That includes all the dramatics and moving the plot forward. The Alliance are all unified because that takes no writing effort, and they do nothing but react to the Horde.

    - The Horde's endgame is to exterminate anything NotHorde. The Alliance's endgame is to stop the Horde murdering them for a little while. Only one of these is compatible with the business model.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  11. #31
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Before, it was the horde who were family, different races together in a common goal of survival and grow up(of course things changed slightly with the forsaken, but the majority here is what counts and even then had the goal of survival), the races in the horde, apart from orcs, could not survive alone, they form friendship and bound trough the same forms of life, shamanism, tribal and more simple way of life, tribes and clans lead by a chieftain, thus warchief was majorly accepted as a high-high chieftain of all races.

    the alliance was the faction where different races had different goals but united for political reason and a common enemy, most races of the alliance had different culture overall, they could function alone, they were not rly 100% close, but united would be easier to deal with problems, thats why they alliance didn't had a leader, all of the racial leaders formed some sort of council and things were dealt different, there was not necessity to anyone obey anyone.

    Today is pretty much the same shit, with few differences, no nuances and rly awful compared to what we had before, major change is how now the horde is the council and alliance have a warchief, for some reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    I'm sorry you don't understand two basic facts:
    - The writers prefer to write for the Horde and have openly stated that. That includes all the dramatics and moving the plot forward. The Alliance are all unified because that takes no writing effort, and they do nothing but react to the Horde.

    - The Horde's endgame is to exterminate anything NotHorde. The Alliance's endgame is to stop the Horde murdering them for a little while. Only one of these is compatible with the business model.
    basically, its bias because they prefer to shit on the horde instead of the alliance, and its bias because they make horde bad/villains and alliance good/heroes

    with those basic facts, i think people should have a different conclusion

  12. #32
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    I'm sorry you don't understand two basic facts:
    - The writers prefer to write for the Horde and have openly stated that. That includes all the dramatics and moving the plot forward. The Alliance are all unified because that takes no writing effort, and they do nothing but react to the Horde.
    Because writing a bunch of goody goody, can do no wrong we're all friends folks (you know, the characterisation that many Ally fans are so fond of) is boring as all! !@#$, even worse than "orcs and undead are evul lul" of MoP/BfA. See what happens when the embodiment of harmony, cooperation and peace is given the spotlight. They had to randomly have him mind controlled because he was utter cancer for the story otherwise. At least, we're safe (for now) from his self righteous, infallible Gary Stu wisdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    - The Horde's endgame is to exterminate anything NotHorde. The Alliance's endgame is to stop the Horde murdering them for a little while. Only one of these is compatible with the business model.
    So smearing Thrall's Chaotic Good Horde twice in a row, and for the most idiotic of "reasons" while we are at it, passes as Horde Bias™ somehow.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Because writing a bunch of goody goody, can do no wrong we're all friends folks (you know, the characterisation that many Ally fans are so fond of) is boring as all! !@#$, even worse than "orcs and undead are evul lul" of MoP/BfA.
    The only place where we don't agree is that you've reversed the order of cause and effect. The writers openly say they don't like writing Alliance, and reduced it to Justice Humans and Friends. You can go see vanilla for yourself to see Alliance wasn't always the Buddy Bears Super Happy Best Friends Club. TBC came along and Alliance started just being there for the ride and subscription fees.

    So smearing Thrall's Chaotic Good Horde twice in a row, and for the most idiotic of "reasons" while we are at it, passes as Horde Bias™ somehow.
    Completely driving the story, getting an overwhelming amount of attention and effort, flipping the factions to Blue Warchief and mindless followers while Horde has all the intrigues and power struggles, yeah it is. You don't like the results? Me either. Relatively good orcs and so on were an interesting change from the norm. Doesn't change the facts that the Horde is the story, and the Alliance is a plot device for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  14. #34
    Currently both, ideally neither and the 'nations as family' trope is a straitjacket on the plot and characters and counterproductive to the course of the game. The Alliance is the most obvious victim because turning into a family of friends has made the main cast limp and dull and has done so for a fucking decade now, preventing any component nation from having its own interests or reacting to anything that should be upsetting or a dealbreaker to it. The Night Elves are the most common example but the dwarves are close to as bad in how they went from an imperialist power that was actually the strongest in the Alliance in Vanilla to being hanger-on comic relief who get over their clain separation thanks to Varian being nice. Moira's 'development' from cunning politician out to advance her son and herself after being taken for granted by her father to one of Anduin's ten surrogate parents is demonstrative of this. Don't even get me started on how the worgen have become a Stormwind leper colony.

    The Horde though has also suffered as a result, more so, perhaps, because it had to be pushed into this trope twice. Its current wretched state is of trying to jam a faction that existed on one end out of shared cultural values - orcs, trolls, tauren and on the other out of self-interest and necessity - forsaken, undead, goblins into a blob where all these powers agree on values and are friends with each other. This despite the one actual family of the Horde, that being the troll/orc/tauren triumvirate also being a storytelling morass that went nowhere, with the bulk of the characterization of all these races stemming from Wrath and Cataclysm when they were written as separate and having their own wants. The orcs improved exponentially when they were given a stake in resources, allowed to recall that they had an existence besides just WC3 and in turn, the trolls and tauren grew and had more to do when what they would do and what the orcs would do in any given situation were no longer one and the same. Vol'jin is a character precisely because the Horde wasn't a family. When it was, under Thrall, he was a cardboard cutout and so was every other troll.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-05-24 at 07:24 AM.
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  15. #35
    Neither the Alliance nor the Horde are a family, despite what Vol'jin said about the Horde, given how the Alliance is an economical and military alliance between races without the objective to unify them politically (fuck this BS High King title) and as a culture and there should be political tensions and disagreements, while the Horde races have lots of infighting and some races are far too different in terms of culture, morality and beliefs while some as Forsaken and the Blood Elves joined out of convenience and pragmatism.

  16. #36
    Neither are families and never should be.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    That's certainly the stated intent, but what they show makes all of that pure bullshit. The Alliance formed in response to a demon fueled army of monsters that later expected everyone to just forget about the masses they slaughtered and places they burned.


    The Horde might have been family in WC3 and Thrall era, but now it's composed of races that by all rights should be at each others' throats. In before someone completely fails to understand my point is Blizz SAYS one thing and SHOWS us something else entirely.
    Probably the biggest criticism you can level with blizzard. I'm surprised how many people don't see this.

    I first spotted it with the night elves, they were described one way, and shown anything but. It's like the writers forgot the core of what they had stated the race to be and just instead decided to fit them into whatever role they wanted, often without consideration to what they had said before.

    But I think most people realise that blizzard write one thing, and appear to completely forget it or most of it, the next time round.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Blood Elves are already Horde before they even found out what happened to Kael'thas and Garithos; also they joined the Horde because the Alliance refused aid to them for 6 years while they were sending forces to Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, etc. but for some reason not in Quel'thalas
    Completely missed the part where they join the horde because Kael'thas instructs Rommath to instruct Silvermoon to do exactly that, right. horde journey begins because of Kael'thas, should have ended once he was exposed to be a traitor, but can't do that in warcraft.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    This is a nice list. It perfectly shows why blizz has Alliance favouritism, although some might say that there is nothing special going on, at least there is stability. As a mainly horde player, I have grown increasingly frustrated and tired of the way blizz is mistreating the horde and it's leadership. The only reason why I am still not fully ally is because of the shit/bland leaders. I dislike anduin, alleria, genn, mecatorque and turalyon. And since blizz decided that wow should be a shitty drama series, it's kind of hard to root for ally (dislikeable leaders) or horde (constant self-destruction) it makes me wish blizz would fix everything.
    You really don't get what favoritism is.

    Rather than measure it by what constitutes the actions of a morally subjective "good" and "evil" - simply because what's evil to you might be right up some writers street as "good storytelling"

    Horde has favoritsm because horde has been the centre of the story - the alliance remains stagnant and boring, second grade, while all the stuff happens on the horde, both good and bad.. the writers are trying to write game of thrones for Warcraft, that's why all this crazy stuff happens on the horde, because the horde are the favourites.

    If you hate the outcome or the style of the writing of the horde, you don't seem to realise it's because YOU are the favourite.. they are writing the best story they can for their favourites. When something is cool and nice, and can be swung to the horde, that's where it goes. See the very night elven and good story for Thalyssra in Legion - Suramar to cool, the story universally liked, but it was a very alliance centric Thalyssra in terms of values, speech, action and theme - but they gave it tot he horde.. this epitomises FAVORITISM.

    Not the all the horrors the horde commits because the horde during wow's lifetime has also dealt with those things.. the drama is created for the horde to solve and come out the hero - and you can't even see it. You see my friend you got it all wrong, they are "not favourites" because you think the story is trash and therefore they must love the alliance more.. silly person, that's your view, they think the story is great, GoT brought Warcraft, with their favourites right at the centre.. you off course think it's trash, and so the mostly neglected, support faction you think is the favourite.. rofl! If the alliance were the favourite, they'd basically be going through the same trash

    the alliance is support role. This is why it is horde favouritism, not because the alliance never does anything wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Before, it was the horde who were family, different races together in a common goal of survival and grow up(of course things changed slightly with the forsaken, but the majority here is what counts and even then had the goal of survival), the races in the horde, apart from orcs, could not survive alone, they form friendship and bound trough the same forms of life, shamanism, tribal and more simple way of life, tribes and clans lead by a chieftain, thus warchief was majorly accepted as a high-high chieftain of all races.

    the alliance was the faction where different races had different goals but united for political reason and a common enemy, most races of the alliance had different culture overall, they could function alone, they were not rly 100% close, but united would be easier to deal with problems, thats why they alliance didn't had a leader, all of the racial leaders formed some sort of council and things were dealt different, there was not necessity to anyone obey anyone.

    Today is pretty much the same shit, with few differences, no nuances and rly awful compared to what we had before, major change is how now the horde is the council and alliance have a warchief, for some reason.
    Pretty much this.. but blizzard changed all of that.. TBC onwards is where it all changed.. they forgot who the horde was supposed to be in their attempts to make it more popular.

    And while it's fine to make outcasts the major dominant force, which will come with it's own complications, it seems how they've done it has been less than satisfactory to most of their fans.

    This is a creative problem. Legion was the only really bright spot in the story telling for me, simply because I loved the story particularly of Suramar and Azsuna. Val'sharah was nice too, although I would have completely re-written Tyrande's lines in her hunt for Malfurion. Stormehim was good too..

    but while they were great at standalones, they are awful at the overall picture because of poor vision and poor oversight.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2021-06-13 at 03:42 PM.
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  18. #38
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    The Horde is a blatant found family villain trope, so that. They stay together because they found a place there, not because it's the best/only option at this point.

    You could argue the Alliance is a family (since everyone is raising Anduin for Varian) but I don't feel a sense of comradery between the races. The bonds between their leaders feel stronger than the bonds between their people. The Horde races feel like they'd stay Horde even if their leaders decided to walk or turn evil. Even w/ Garrosh/Sylvanas their own followers split w/ a chunk remaining loyal to the red banner.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    You really don't get what favoritism is.

    Rather than measure it by what constitutes the actions of a morally subjective "good" and "evil" - simply because what's evil to you might be right up some writers street as "good storytelling"

    Horde has favoritsm because horde has been the centre of the story - the alliance remains stagnant and boring, second grade, while all the stuff happens on the horde, both good and bad.. the writers are trying to write game of thrones for Warcraft, that's why all this crazy stuff happens on the horde, because the horde are the favourites.

    If you hate the outcome or the style of the writing of the horde, you don't seem to realise it's because YOU are the favourite.. they are writing the best story they can for their favourites. When something is cool and nice, and can be swung to the horde, that's where it goes. See the very night elven and good story for Thalyssra in Legion - Suramar to cool, the story universally liked, but it was a very alliance centric Thalyssra in terms of values, speech, action and theme - but they gave it tot he horde.. this epitomises FAVORITISM.

    Not the all the horrors the horde commits because the horde during wow's lifetime has also dealt with those things.. the drama is created for the horde to solve and come out the hero - and you can't even see it. You see my friend you got it all wrong, they are "not favourites" because you think the story is trash and therefore they must love the alliance more.. silly person, that's your view, they think the story is great, GoT brought Warcraft, with their favourites right at the centre.. you off course think it's trash, and so the mostly neglected, support faction you think is the favourite.. rofl! If the alliance were the favourite, they'd basically be going through the same trash

    the alliance is support role. This is why it is horde favouritism, not because the alliance never does anything wrong.
    You'd think that such a long reply would have a point beyond ''You don't like it, but the horde is the favored faction because I say so and you are just too stupid to see it" but here we are. Get of your high horse, talking down to everyone who's opinion doesn't reflect your own doesn't add any value to your arguments nor does it help any form of discussion. Granted, someone with such a strong opinion about elves and Alliance by extension wouldn't agree with my statement, but that is expected.

    I'd argue, that YOU are the one to miss the point. My point was that the turbulent character developments and changes are either too strong (villain batting, killing off) or downright stupid (Baine) for the horde, with only a few interesting character remaining. These developments can be done in a reasonable manner, but the way it has worked out over the years has not been in a way that made the horde an interesting faction when looking at it's leadership. The races that have joined in the meantime were also fine (I vehemently dislike vulpera, but they are irrelevant anyway). The nightborne joining the horde is somewhat of a quirk, and seems to hinge on negative interactions with the night elves and the way blood elves had very similar experiences that the nightborne found themselves in, and finding kinship in that.

    You do make one interesting note, that the character development in wow somehow resembles that of GoT. The horde characters are a far more diverse range of characters which gives the writers good opportunities to do creative things, but also creates the perfect chance to utterly ruin them. The blatant stupidity/undesirability of characters such as garrosh and sylvanas, coupled with their presence in the story has severely reduced the enjoyment of being part of the hord during multiple expansions. It was nut fun to be part of the horde, knowing Garrosh was warchief during cata and pandaria, and Sylvanas was atrocious during BFA. Blizz has pushed the character presence and drama to the forefront of the narrative of wow, and this made it clear that they are incapable of writing any good character progression. This also goes up for the Alliance to a lesser extent. I may dislike up to half of the cast, but I can't deny the fact that their character developments ar at least better than that of the horde. Jaina, anduin and magni have seen some drastic character changes, most of which have been received positively. Magni has been an interesting character and very involved in in titan related lore. Most (if not all) of the alliance leadership can be chalked down as great heroes and leaders with more than enough accolades to their name. Next to the fact that just about every war has been won by the alliance, I'd also argue that the quality of horde home towns/cities has ALWAYS lagged far behind that of the alliance, with stormwind having had multiple upgrades over the years.

    When I say that there is a (somewhat) clear favoritism towards the alliance, that is because at the very least, every character in the alliance cast has earned the respect/trust of the player, didn't go completely apeshit insane or had questionable motivations. Horde leaders in contrast, were mostly reduced to memes due to irrational behavior or irrelevance. The alliance more often than not have better/more pleasant city layouts. I mentioned that I mostly play horde, but I've played both factions for at least a decade and started as alliance. To me, the horde only has experienced favoritism in the racials department, which did have impact on server populations.

    You may not like what I have to say, but this is how I see it and petty remarks will not change my point of view.

    to get back on topic, I'd say that the horde was/is a family forced to be together out of necessity, while the alliance in contrast is a family in which each member enjoys the benefit of each other and stay together by their own choice.
    Last edited by bloodkin; 2021-06-13 at 11:58 PM.
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

    'A Man choses, a Slave obeys.' -Andrew Rayn

  20. #40
    It's probably been stated before but the miscommunication here is both sides are have a different definition of bias. I will step back as neutral as I can and state what I see for both, based on the better posters here. I'm doing so in a good faith effort, believe that as you will. I won't address aesthetics as that's completely subjective.

    Alliance view:
    - Horde drives the story, Alliance is along for the ride.
    - Horde gets away with atrocities, while Alliance looks like losers and chumps even when they "win".
    - Alliance advantages are NEVER used or pressed, e.g. Malfurion's powers or the superior technology.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, working with Horde.
    - Horde has superior racials, driving the playerbase there for an advantage.
    - Horde benefits from usually being developed first, while Alliance doesn't receive as much dev time.
    - Writers have openly stated they 1) don't like writing Alliance, and 2) find writing Alliance races besides humans too hard.

    Horde view:
    - Horde is always villain batted and loses characters.
    - Horde wins battles, never wars. Horde is forced to be divided.
    - Horde victories feel hollow because Alliance phones it in, not using their full powers.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, giving Horde orders.
    - (No counterpart to racial advantages that I've heard. Maybe "Players feel forced to be Horde when they'd rather not"?)
    - (No counterpart to first development that I know of.)
    - Writers flip flopped the faction models because they want to write GoT drama with the Horde characters.

    Alliance perceives Horde bias in the form of development effort and story focus, a Doylist view. Horde perceives Alliance bias in the form of better story treatment in victories and not losing characters, a Watsonian view.

    Can we agree on this much?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

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