View Poll Results: Is the Alliance or the Horde the true "family" of World of Warcraft?

Voters
86. You may not vote on this poll
  • The Horde is the true family

    21 24.42%
  • The Alliance is the true family

    32 37.21%
  • They are both true families, in different ways

    33 38.37%
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    It's probably been stated before but the miscommunication here is both sides are have a different definition of bias. I will step back as neutral as I can and state what I see for both, based on the better posters here. I'm doing so in a good faith effort, believe that as you will. I won't address aesthetics as that's completely subjective.

    Alliance view:
    - Horde drives the story, Alliance is along for the ride.
    - Horde gets away with atrocities, while Alliance looks like losers and chumps even when they "win".
    - Alliance advantages are NEVER used or pressed, e.g. Malfurion's powers or the superior technology.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, working with Horde.
    - Horde has superior racials, driving the playerbase there for an advantage.
    - Horde benefits from usually being developed first, while Alliance doesn't receive as much dev time.
    - Writers have openly stated they 1) don't like writing Alliance, and 2) find writing Alliance races besides humans too hard.

    Horde view:
    - Horde is always villain batted and loses characters.
    - Horde wins battles, never wars. Horde is forced to be divided.
    - Horde victories feel hollow because Alliance phones it in, not using their full powers.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, giving Horde orders.
    - (No counterpart to racial advantages that I've heard. Maybe "Players feel forced to be Horde when they'd rather not"?)
    - (No counterpart to first development that I know of.)
    - Writers flip flopped the faction models because they want to write GoT drama with the Horde characters.

    Alliance perceives Horde bias in the form of development effort and story focus, a Doylist view. Horde perceives Alliance bias in the form of better story treatment in victories and not losing characters, a Watsonian view.

    Can we agree on this much?
    Yep pretty much.

    But I would add the horde fans in their fanaticism, and wounded complex/victim mentality fail to see their portion is the more highly favoured because they are so upset by how their story is treated they can't see the alliance view which proves they the horde really are the favourites. [not that alliance fans are immune to similar blindness - we are all human afterall]

    However Warcraft really has been horde centric and horde driven since TBC - legion was the only real break, but by turning the Nightborne horde, it will now feel horde centric since they are the culmination of the events of the four zones and the main thrust of the storyline there against the Legion. BFA actually is the first time the alliance look better than the horde, EVER in Warcraft story telling that shows up in game. horde has always been emphasized more in the lore despite the alliance having a lot of great stuff - often under utilised or just side lined for the novels to employ. Digression: (and the many horde fans will easily miss the 100% kaldorei lore, in that city, coming from a strong blood elf perspective and only see how the blood elves relate to the Nightborne - unware of the vast majority of the kaldorei lore that the Nightborne basically exemplify - it's sad, there is the kaldorei shown now in the game, and they call it blood elf lore because it relates to blood elves - not realising that this is how the kaldorei relate to blood elves - it is kaldorei and here is the connection.)


    What they don't get is that, I would also hate it if what they do on the horde was done on the alliance, but it still doesn't mean they are not favourites. These guys assume the alliance are favourites simply because they don't like negative portrayals the horde keeps getting visited with - that's their only reason, they don't see things from the perspective of a writer or developer because they are neither - so can't understand if you are the centre of the story and all the best things and worse things happen to you - you are the favourites. Just because your opponents seem to be stable and well off doesn't necessarily mean they are favoured - and when you look closely it is clear they are either mostly outright ignored or just tools to facilitate the favourites. They blame favouritism for the parts of the story they hate unable to see objectively.

    Sigh, told them many a time before. I think this horde confusion is thanks to alliance being ported over to the horde with the elves. Many an alliance fan joined the horde, not for love of the horde, or what it represented nor what it was about or stood for. no, they joined because they loved pretty high elves and beautiful Silvermoon, they come with alliance values of right and wrong, and are confused when the horde behaves like "the horde".. this causes them to clash with your goth type forsaken lovers , and your traditionalist horde culture lovers who enjoy the orcs for their hard edge brutalism, the trolls for their voodoo like dark tribal ritual stuff. these alliance imports view such things as bad story telling and evidence the horde isn't favourites and clash with Sylvanas type fans, and troll/orc fans over what the identity and purpose of the horde should be.

    This is what you get for importing the alliance into the horde. you get a diluted and fractured horde. Solution is either get rid of the factions, or drastically minimise the elven show on the horde by strengthening it and focusing it on the alliance that is it's natural home. This will also draw people back to the alliance incidentally and might just solve the number problems too. Oh but the horde fan will oppose this tooth and nail.. yet it is the necessary sacrifice to sort his out.

    The factions if they are to mean anything relevant, and have clear set roles going forward, must be distinct as much as possible.. failure to do so will ultimately weaken what is the core strength of having them around and lead to their removal.

    it's either dot his or get cornered into removing them and/or making them meaningless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkin View Post
    You'd think that such a long reply would have a point beyond ''You don't like it, but the horde is the favored faction because I say so and you are just too stupid to see it" but here we are. Get of your high horse, talking down to everyone who's opinion doesn't reflect your own doesn't add any value to your arguments nor does it help any form of discussion. Granted, someone with such a strong opinion about elves and Alliance by extension wouldn't agree with my statement, but that is expected.

    I'd argue, that YOU are the one to miss the point. My point was that the turbulent character developments and changes are either too strong (villain batting, killing off) or downright stupid (Baine) for the horde, with only a few interesting character remaining. These developments can be done in a reasonable manner, but the way it has worked out over the years has not been in a way that made the horde an interesting faction when looking at it's leadership. The races that have joined in the meantime were also fine (I vehemently dislike vulpera, but they are irrelevant anyway). The nightborne joining the horde is somewhat of a quirk, and seems to hinge on negative interactions with the night elves and the way blood elves had very similar experiences that the nightborne found themselves in, and finding kinship in that.

    You do make one interesting note, that the character development in wow somehow resembles that of GoT. The horde characters are a far more diverse range of characters which gives the writers good opportunities to do creative things, but also creates the perfect chance to utterly ruin them. The blatant stupidity/undesirability of characters such as garrosh and sylvanas, coupled with their presence in the story has severely reduced the enjoyment of being part of the hord during multiple expansions. It was nut fun to be part of the horde, knowing Garrosh was warchief during cata and pandaria, and Sylvanas was atrocious during BFA. Blizz has pushed the character presence and drama to the forefront of the narrative of wow, and this made it clear that they are incapable of writing any good character progression. This also goes up for the Alliance to a lesser extent. I may dislike up to half of the cast, but I can't deny the fact that their character developments ar at least better than that of the horde. Jaina, anduin and magni have seen some drastic character changes, most of which have been received positively. Magni has been an interesting character and very involved in in titan related lore. Most (if not all) of the alliance leadership can be chalked down as great heroes and leaders with more than enough accolades to their name. Next to the fact that just about every war has been won by the alliance, I'd also argue that the quality of horde home towns/cities has ALWAYS lagged far behind that of the alliance, with stormwind having had multiple upgrades over the years.

    When I say that there is a (somewhat) clear favoritism towards the alliance, that is because at the very least, every character in the alliance cast has earned the respect/trust of the player, didn't go completely apeshit insane or had questionable motivations. Horde leaders in contrast, were mostly reduced to memes due to irrational behaviour or irrelevance. The alliance more often than not have better/more pleasant city layouts. I mentioned that I mostly play horde, but I've played both factions for at least a decade and started as alliance. To me, the horde only has experienced favoritism in the racials department, which did have impact on server populations.

    You may not like what I have to say, but this is how I see it and petty remarks will not change my point of view.

    to get back on topic, I'd say that the horde was/is a family forced to be together out of necessity, while the alliance in contrast is a family in which each member enjoys the benefit of each other and stay together by their own choice.
    I do tend to waffle, some people do, a lot don't unless they're passionate. I think it's because I'm trying to reach people, and not just tell them what is the case. so i devle into explanations that aren't always wanted.

    You make astute observations, even though you're wrong about the "you don't like it, but the horde is favoured faction because I say so and you are just too stupid to see it" - my long explanations are what I hope make you see why they are favoured, so you can understand and not just accept it because I say so. It may come across that I think the fans are stupid, but I actually don't, I'm all too human and understand all too well what it means to be swept up in something and be passionate tot he point of not seeing the truth about it or at least the value of a different perspective. I have scars in my soul that have taught me this valuable lesson. So I don't look down at my fellow fans even when I get flustered by them, and the reason my language is not cruel or haughty is because I don't feel them. I'm not disguising my arrogance with softer words, I really understand where they are coming from, and trying to show them a different perspective their passion is likely blinding them from seeing.

    you make some good points. I agree with your second paragraph. I off course agree with your 3rd paragraph, seeing you do agree with me on there. And @Feanoro who I respond to above (you should read my response) I think nails it when he frames the perspective on the two groups.) i'm actually a lot more neutral than a lot of people think i am, I appear biased to them because I'm often challenging their views on the alliance, their views on the night elves and the careless trashing they often seem to do. I write a lot because I don't just say but try to provide the basis for my reasoning so they can see and learn from my point of view as i have theirs.

    But they 90% don't even read it, yet argue against it, and then accuse me of being arrogant and stubborn. I know this is done in their passion, so I can somewhat understand it, but it says a lot about them, their attitude and behaviour, and it isn't positive. (disclaimer; this isn't every horde fan ofc)
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2021-06-14 at 05:15 AM.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  2. #42
    I'm going to link this again:



    "The noble races of the Alliance are bound together by proud traditions of nobility, honor, faith, justice, and sacrifice.

    The many different Alliance peoples all contribute their technical, arcane and spiritual wisdom toward the goal of a peaceful and just world."

    Sounds like a family to me.

    Meanwhile:

    "the proud nations of the horde are loosely joined in an alliance of convenience against a hostile world that would see them destroyed."

    Sound like a rag tag bunch of races with similar circumstances being put together.

    Let me remind you that you started, before Cataclysm, as neutral with the Forsaken and the Blood elves. And that was due to them being former enemies of the Horde. I don't believe they trust each other much or even share much in common. Heck, the Blood elves considered joining back to the Alliance and the Forsaken betrayed the Horde like twice (Wrathgate and BfA). The only races there that are actually close to each other are the Orcs, Troll and Tauren, whom all were part of WC3 Horde that was bound by shamanistic traditions.

    Same as with the Nightborne and, somewhat, the Goblins. Nightborne mostly joined the Horde because they share, practically, the same mentality and lifestyle of Blood elves. They don't seem to be much Hordish with their snob postures and regal manners. Goblins fit the scrappy Horde, but i don't believe they are trusted because they change their allegiance every other day and only care about money. They allied with the Horde after being attacked by the Humans.

    Don't let me get started on Huojin Pandaren. First of all, Pandaren allying with the Zandalari is a stretch in itself. Not to talk about the Mogu-like orcs, the evil forsaken, the greedy goblins or the magic-obsessed blood elves - which, are all quite contradictive of Pandaren culture.
    Then, when they were recruited they were put in a pit, by Garrosh, and were forced to fight giant monsters to prove their worth to the Horde. At the end of the expansion, their leader literally almost got killed by the Warchief and his forces and yet they are still part of the Horde? beats me...

    Vulpera match the Horde on the tribal, primitive level. But, they are too god damn cute, adorable, nice and friendly to be part of the savage Horde with the likes of Orcs, Trolls or Tauren.

    The Alliance has no such animosity toward each other. Sure, the recent events kinda shook things off with the Night elves and the Alliance, but despite them being rather different from the light worshipping, human-looking Alliance races, they were still on good terms with them (hence, why you started with friendly reputation with all of the Alliance races).
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-14 at 07:30 AM.
    Read First! (Very Important)
    Dear Scrapbot or Moderator:
    Before you, recklessly, hand out an infraction - if i, accidently, broke the rules without being aware, i would very much appreciate a warning first, in the manner of a green text/edit or a private message.
    Thank you in advance.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I'm going to link this again:



    "The noble races of the Alliance are bound together by proud traditions of nobility, honor, faith, justice, and sacrifice.

    The many different Alliance peoples all contribute their technical, arcane and spiritual wisdom toward the goal of a peaceful and just world."

    Sounds like a family to me.

    Meanwhile:

    "the proud nations of the horde are loosely joined in an alliance of convenience against a hostile world that would see them destroyed."

    Sound like a rag tag bunch of races with similar circumstances being put together.

    Let me remind you that you started, before Cataclysm, as neutral with the Forsaken and the Blood elves. And that was due to them being former enemies of the Horde. I don't believe they trust each other much or even share much in common. Heck, the Blood elves considered joining back to the Alliance and the Forsaken betrayed the Horde like twice (Wrathgate and BfA). The only races there that are actually close to each other are the Orcs, Troll and Tauren, whom all were part of WC3 Horde that was bound by shamanistic traditions.

    Same as with the Nightborne and, somewhat, the Goblins. Nightborne mostly joined the Horde because they share, practically, the same mentality and lifestyle of Blood elves. They don't seem to be much Hordish with their snob postures and regal manners. Goblins fit the scrappy Horde, but i don't believe they are trusted because they change their allegiance every other day and only care about money. They allied with the Horde after being attacked by the Humans.

    Don't let me get started on Huojin Pandaren. First of all, Pandaren allying with the Zandalari is a stretch in itself. Not to talk about the Mogu-like orcs, the evil forsaken, the greedy goblins or the magic-obsessed blood elves - which, are all quite contradictive of Pandaren culture.
    Then, when they were recruited they were put in a pit, by Garrosh, and were forced to fight giant monsters to prove their worth to the Horde. At the end of the expansion, their leader literally almost got killed by the Warchief and his forces and yet they are still part of the Horde? beats me...

    Vulpera match the Horde on the tribal, primitive level. But, they are too god damn cute, adorable, nice and friendly to be part of the savage Horde with the likes of Orcs, Trolls or Tauren.

    The Alliance has no such animosity toward each other. Sure, the recent events kinda shook things off with the Night elves and the Alliance, but despite them being rather different from the light worshipping, human-looking Alliance races, they were still on good terms with them (hence, why you started with friendly reputation with all of the Alliance races).
    Pretty much this. As it stands you really have 3 factions, if not 4

    the alliance
    the orc/troll/tauren horde
    the forsaken
    the blood elves and nightborne

    and goblins are the floaters that just won't flush when you want, so they stick around stinking up the place.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Pretty much this. As it stands you really have 3 factions, if not 4

    the alliance
    the orc/troll/tauren horde
    the forsaken
    the blood elves and nightborne

    and goblins are the floaters that just won't flush when you want, so they stick around stinking up the place.
    I'd say 4 factions, based on WC3 playable factions/Shadowlands covenants:

    The Horde (Necrolords) - war centric
    The Alliance (Kyrian) - good fellas
    Sentinels (Night fae) - nature lovers
    Scourge (Venthyr) - evil
    Read First! (Very Important)
    Dear Scrapbot or Moderator:
    Before you, recklessly, hand out an infraction - if i, accidently, broke the rules without being aware, i would very much appreciate a warning first, in the manner of a green text/edit or a private message.
    Thank you in advance.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I'd say 4 factions, based on WC3 playable factions/Shadowlands covenants:

    The Horde (Necrolords) - war centric
    The Alliance (Kyrian) - good fellas
    Sentinels (Night fae) - nature lovers
    Scourge (Venthyr) - evil
    Oh yeah.. basically how they should have done most of wow.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Oh yeah.. basically how they should have done most of wow.
    It's more RP possibilities and i believed they hinted at it with the Night elves drifting apart from the Alliance after War of Thorns and the Forsaken drifting away from the Horde after Battle for Lordaeron. And the obvious faction resemblance of covenants.
    Read First! (Very Important)
    Dear Scrapbot or Moderator:
    Before you, recklessly, hand out an infraction - if i, accidently, broke the rules without being aware, i would very much appreciate a warning first, in the manner of a green text/edit or a private message.
    Thank you in advance.

  7. #47
    Dreadlord Smallfruitbat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Khadgars' Tower
    Posts
    867
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I'd say 4 factions, based on WC3 playable factions/Shadowlands covenants:

    The Horde (Necrolords) - war centric
    The Alliance (Kyrian) - good fellas
    Sentinels (Night fae) - nature lovers
    Scourge (Venthyr) - evil
    This actually makes sense in terms of alliances. I'm trying to round up a few more of the surviving Night Elves so we can annex ourselves from the Alliance -who else is with me?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    That's certainly the stated intent, but what they show makes all of that pure bullshit. The Alliance formed in response to a demon fueled army of monsters that later expected everyone to just forget about the masses they slaughtered and places they burned.

    Outcasts my foot.

    Trolls are incredibly xenophobic and have a massive superiority complex, historically attacking on sight and eating any other humanoids. Oddly enough, that doesn't do wonders for their social calendars with other races. Outside the Horde, that largely hasn't changed. Inside the Horde, they merrily go along with every slaughter du jour and just like Orcs, wonder why people fear and hate them. Can't imagine why people would fear and hate serial killers...

    Tauren have increasingly been shown to be fools for staying in the Horde, as Cairne is dead and his oath was to Thrall. They're simply thought of as dumb muscle by the Garrosh types. They're judged for going along with the Horde chimp outs, with only Baine ineffectively protesting. (In before the Baine foaming at the mouth hate posts)

    Goblins are canonically despised by Azeroth herself for destroying everything they get near. They're not family, they use the rest of the Horde as muscle and meat shields.

    Blood Elves are Horde for Kael'thas pouting and blaming the entire Alliance for one jackass human. They've flirted with leaving multiple times because they view the rest of the Horde as barbarians and beasts.

    Undead are Horde because Tauren are stupid and thought you can cure death and decomposition. From vanilla onwards, it was made clear the Forsaken are using the Horde for protection, not any real loyalty.

    Zandalari are Horde because BfA was a train wreck that was transporting industrial waste.

    Pandas are Horde because it was MoP's gimmick. There ought to be stories about pandas conflicted about killing friends and family who chose Alliance, but all logic goes out the window for the idiotic faction divide.

    Nightborne are Horde because Thalyssra was lobotomized at the end of Legion and they wanted Horde to have a non Blood Elf model.



    The Horde might have been family in WC3 and Thrall era, but now it's composed of races that by all rights should be at each others' throats. In before someone completely fails to understand my point is Blizz SAYS one thing and SHOWS us something else entirely.
    Yep this is very true, and this is 1 huge reason to why wow destroyed warcraft lore since Blizzard always been trying to protect the horde due to their own built bias.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    This actually makes sense in terms of alliances. I'm trying to round up a few more of the surviving Night Elves so we can annex ourselves from the Alliance -who else is with me?
    @ravenmoon probably

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "The noble races of the Alliance are bound together by proud traditions of nobility, honor, faith, justice, and sacrifice.

    "the proud nations of the horde are loosely joined in an alliance of convenience against a hostile world that would see them destroyed."
    Here's my problem with this, it's bad writing (In wow? I know a shocker) that completely ignores the actual history of the world and the factions. It also reads like it was written by (or for) someone who only knows the universe through WoW.

    The alliance has always been fractious dickheads, in fact being fractious dickheads with what drove the events of WCII and lead to the events of beyond the dark portal, RoC and TFT.
    The entire arc of Thrall's horde in WCIII and vanilla is 'together strong' and 'muh bonds of friendship'. The allies of convenience has always only ever been a flimsy justification for 1. The vanilla devs wanting playable forsaken (to quote 'badass monsters') and 2. The nakedly business decision to boost the horde player base through the elf dollar.

    And this is coming from an alliance stan.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    This actually makes sense in terms of alliances. I'm trying to round up a few more of the surviving Night Elves so we can annex ourselves from the Alliance -who else is with me?
    The Sentinels would be lead by the Night elves, but the Worgen would probably join them (as they are part of the Sentinels themselves and have good relations with them after they accepted them in Teldrassil). The second race i can see joining them is the Pandaren - once close allies of the Night elves and nature lovers (alongside ale) themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Here's my problem with this, it's bad writing (In wow? I know a shocker) that completely ignores the actual history of the world and the factions. It also reads like it was written by (or for) someone who only knows the universe through WoW.

    The alliance has always been fractious dickheads, in fact being fractious dickheads with what drove the events of WCII and lead to the events of beyond the dark portal, RoC and TFT.
    The entire arc of Thrall's horde in WCIII and vanilla is 'together strong' and 'muh bonds of friendship'. The allies of convenience has always only ever been a flimsy justification for 1. The vanilla devs wanting playable forsaken (to quote 'badass monsters') and 2. The nakedly business decision to boost the horde player base through the elf dollar.

    And this is coming from an alliance stan.
    I've mentioned that Orcs, Trolls and Tauren have a strong bond. But, that's about it (and constitutes only half of the faction - though, the iconic part of it). Undead, Elves and Goblins aren't part of it.

    As for the Alliance, they didn't really have any fracture, except for with the High elves. Dwarves and Gnomes have always been natural allies, as they share a common ancestor (and look humanish). Night elves were always the odd one, but were never received with disdain or hatred by the others. Draenei, although alien, share their faith in the light with the other races of the Alliance. And Worgen, although not be trusted at first after they abandoned the Alliance in the second war and bear a dark curse that turns them into savages, seem to be on friendly terms with both the Night elves and King Anduin.
    Dark Irons are the most distant, as they were enemies of the faction for so long. But, apparently, they have made themselves friendly after MoP. Void elves, although dealing with dangerous forces, do not seem to be sinister and evil like a dark elf should. So, while the light-centric Alliance races maybe wary of them, they don't seem to look down upon them.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-14 at 11:57 AM.
    Read First! (Very Important)
    Dear Scrapbot or Moderator:
    Before you, recklessly, hand out an infraction - if i, accidently, broke the rules without being aware, i would very much appreciate a warning first, in the manner of a green text/edit or a private message.
    Thank you in advance.

  12. #52
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Completely missed the part where they join the horde because Kael'thas instructs Rommath to instruct Silvermoon to do exactly that, right. horde journey begins because of Kael'thas, should have ended once he was exposed to be a traitor, but can't do that in warcraft.
    my former "allies" ignored us for 6 years and left us to rot on our own at the mercy of the Wretched, Amani, and Scourge; we'd prefer to remain with our new allies whom we owe our freedom
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    my former "allies" ignored us for 6 years and left us to rot on our own at the mercy of the Wretched, Amani, and Scourge; we'd prefer to remain with our new allies whom we owe our freedom
    Yeah, those allies were twiddling their thumbs with no problems of their own, the selfish bastards!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  14. #54
    Well the Alliance races could use the same argument, reminding the elves that they didn't lift the little finger to help their former allies during their own time of need and that they were the ones who chose to tell their allies who saved them twice, from the Amani Trolls and the Orcs, to fuck off and abandonned them first, and had no problems leaving humans to be slaughtered by the Scouge until they were the ones targeted by the undead onslaught.
    Last edited by Terrorthatflapsinthenight; 2021-06-14 at 06:30 PM.

  15. #55
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Yeah, those allies were twiddling their thumbs with no problems of their own, the selfish bastards!
    yes, while they were sending adventurers far and wide from Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, Stonetalon, and whatnot but for some reason not on Ghostlands which is literally just north of Eastern Plaguelands
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    It's probably been stated before but the miscommunication here is both sides are have a different definition of bias. I will step back as neutral as I can and state what I see for both, based on the better posters here. I'm doing so in a good faith effort, believe that as you will. I won't address aesthetics as that's completely subjective.

    Alliance view:
    - Horde drives the story, Alliance is along for the ride.
    - Horde gets away with atrocities, while Alliance looks like losers and chumps even when they "win".
    - Alliance advantages are NEVER used or pressed, e.g. Malfurion's powers or the superior technology.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, working with Horde.
    - Horde has superior racials, driving the playerbase there for an advantage.
    - Horde benefits from usually being developed first, while Alliance doesn't receive as much dev time.
    - Writers have openly stated they 1) don't like writing Alliance, and 2) find writing Alliance races besides humans too hard.

    Horde view:
    - Horde is always villain batted and loses characters.
    - Horde wins battles, never wars. Horde is forced to be divided.
    - Horde victories feel hollow because Alliance phones it in, not using their full powers.
    - Alliance characters end up neutral, giving Horde orders.
    - (No counterpart to racial advantages that I've heard. Maybe "Players feel forced to be Horde when they'd rather not"?)
    - (No counterpart to first development that I know of.)
    - Writers flip flopped the faction models because they want to write GoT drama with the Horde characters.

    Alliance perceives Horde bias in the form of development effort and story focus, a Doylist view. Horde perceives Alliance bias in the form of better story treatment in victories and not losing characters, a Watsonian view.

    Can we agree on this much?
    May Elune bless you and Brosword take care of your soul.

  17. #57
    The Alliance is a normal family where not everyone gets along all the time while the Horde is the type of family where a mom and daughter go around seducing men together then robbing and murdering them.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    The Alliance is a normal family where not everyone gets along all the time while the Horde is the type of family where a mom and daughter go around seducing men together then robbing and murdering them.
    Sounds like one of my least favourite horror flicks - the tale of the man hunting murdering banshee - beware her seductive wiles... only death stalks her kisses.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    yes, while they were sending adventurers far and wide from Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, Stonetalon, and whatnot but for some reason not on Ghostlands which is literally just north of Eastern Plaguelands
    You're not helping the "Blood Elves are selfish, entitled bastards" meme, you know.

    My point is the former allies WERE dealing with huge threats, and the BElves had already stomped off in a huff. Unless you have some evidence of them reaching out to the Alliance for help and being rebuffed, there's no argument here. Go play through Classic on Alliance and you'll see they had their hands full.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    my former "allies" ignored us for 6 years and left us to rot on our own at the mercy of the Wretched, Amani, and Scourge; we'd prefer to remain with our new allies whom we owe our freedom
    From context alone, who do you think is making that statement.. the blood elves in Silvermoon who weren't in that situation? or the very Kael'thas who was and is issuign instructions. Go check the lore. Kael'thas ordered the elves to join the horde. It was his instruction.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •