View Poll Results: Is the Alliance or the Horde the true "family" of World of Warcraft?

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  • The Horde is the true family

    21 24.42%
  • The Alliance is the true family

    32 37.21%
  • They are both true families, in different ways

    33 38.37%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    From context alone, who do you think is making that statement.. the blood elves in Silvermoon who weren't in that situation? or the very Kael'thas who was and is issuign instructions. Go check the lore. Kael'thas ordered the elves to join the horde. It was his instruction.
    And the Horde sent allies, whilst Alliance sent hostile spies and infiltrators.

    So, joining the Horde was only natural, plus being close to Lordaeron and Sylvanas, it only strengthened the presence of the Horde in the Eastern Kingdoms.

    I mean, we get it - you want Blood Elves on the Alliance, yet they along with the Orcs, Tauren, Trolls, Nightborne and Pandaren all share the image of how the Horde should be and currently, Lor'themar is leading the Horde, whilst Thrall and Baine are away.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I'd say 4 factions, based on WC3 playable factions/Shadowlands covenants:

    The Horde (Necrolords) - war centric
    The Alliance (Kyrian) - good fellas
    Sentinels (Night fae) - nature lovers
    Scourge (Venthyr) - evil
    Kyrians - good fellas? Dude, they might seem noble, but it's a damn cult on a higher level. "Let us erase your memory"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    You're not helping the "Blood Elves are selfish, entitled bastards" meme, you know.

    My point is the former allies WERE dealing with huge threats, and the BElves had already stomped off in a huff. Unless you have some evidence of them reaching out to the Alliance for help and being rebuffed, there's no argument here. Go play through Classic on Alliance and you'll see they had their hands full.
    Cronica does not clarify that precisely? that the Alliance rejected them?
    Or I think it was something like only the Horde was going to let them do what they wanted to do. (help Illidian I think it was)
    Besides, if they returned to their old allies, you know the woman who gave her life to try to save them. Sylvanas.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And the Horde sent allies, whilst Alliance sent hostile spies and infiltrators.

    .
    Yes, we know you are on the side of the blood elves, but from a 3rd person view, the situation is more nuanced. and the backstory that demonstrates it is there.

    And none of this changes the fact that it is Kael'thas that ordered the switch. You really do like to have the last word even making points that have nothing to do with what you are replying to. Do you find the ned to have to be right about something so irresistible?
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    The Alliance and the Horde are like polar opposites in a certain way - but one commonality is that both factions have been described as "families" in the past. I found this to be a really powerful and simple quote:



    But according to this interview by Steve Danuser:
    That being said, while the Horde story is currently one of deep division, Danuser notes that the Alliance aren’t at each other’s throats. "The Alliance is like a family. Brothers and sisters can disagree, and things can get heated, but there’s still a deep and abiding love and trust there."

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/15/18...s-of-vengeance

    The Alliance values unity, harmony, and cooperation - it is built on those who are drawn to each other based on similar values, people who are drawn towards things they are most familiar with, who are most like them. That is why the Tushui value harmony above all other values, and were drawn towards the faction in the first place. Why Varian declared that a bundle of sticks is not easily broken.

    "Hm. I used to think that leadership was all about strength. I see things more clearly now - It's a little bit of give, a little bit of take. It's about binding people together. A bundle of sticks is not easily broken."

    The Horde is based on differences - on diversity, on the outcast, the formerly oppressed and misunderstood, the downtrodden, marginalized and victimized elements of society, often ignored, shunned and neglected, who believe in compromise out of necessity, and the ends justifying the means.

    "When will they learn? When will they see that the Horde exists BECAUSE of the Alliance? Because of their prejudice and their bigotry!? They force us ever closer to Hellscream's Horde."



    In other words, what makes a true family, a real family? Those who are most like you, inside and out? Those who always try their hardest to carefully avoid fighting as best they can, and constantly strive for harmony?

    Or those who are most different from you, and who fight with each other, and love to fight with each other all the time, because they believe it is actually conflict, the belief that most families are broken and imperfect and are supposed to be, and that it is our fundamental and individual differences, which define a family, NOT abstract things like the ideal of perfect unity and cooperation, or harmony and balance, whatever those are supposed to mean?
    They're one big, dysfunctional family.
    Only the (neutral) goblins truly appreciate it for what it is.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #66
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    From context alone, who do you think is making that statement.. the blood elves in Silvermoon who weren't in that situation? or the very Kael'thas who was and is issuign instructions. Go check the lore. Kael'thas ordered the elves to join the horde. It was his instruction.
    I mean yeah, but even so it would be still practical to be with those who saved their lives
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I mean yeah, but even so it would be still practical to be with those who saved their lives
    The Naga?
    Sylvanas?
    Illidian?
    Tyrande?
    Last edited by geco; 2021-06-15 at 02:16 PM.

  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post

    Trolls are incredibly xenophobic and have a massive superiority complex, historically attacking on sight and eating any other humanoids. Oddly enough, that doesn't do wonders for their social calendars with other races. Outside the Horde, that largely hasn't changed. Inside the Horde, they merrily go along with every slaughter du jour and just like Orcs, wonder why people fear and hate them. Can't imagine why people would fear and hate serial killers...
    .
    You mean the Darkspear that literally left Stranglethorn to avoid conflict and they were hunted down by random kul tirans?
    Twice?

    Or do you mean the other troll tribes that had their lands taken from them by kaldorei first and humans later?
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  9. #69
    Pit Lord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The Naga?
    Sylvanas?
    Illidian?
    Tyrande?
    the Forsaken, yes
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Kyrians - good fellas? Dude, they might seem noble, but it's a damn cult on a higher level. "Let us erase your memory"
    Like the Alliance fanaticism in the Light.
    You know what i mean. The righteous ones.
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    You mean the Darkspear that literally left Stranglethorn to avoid conflict and they were hunted down by random kul tirans?
    Twice?
    Do what? The Darkspear were driven out of STV by the Skullsplitters and Bloodscalps. They also weren't "hunted down". In both cases, the Kul Tirans were searching for the orcs after they stole ships and ran into the trolls. Humans knew trolls as vicious killers.

    Or do you mean the other troll tribes that had their lands taken from them by kaldorei first and humans later?
    The Kal'dorei at the time were under Azshara, who isn't known for being nice, true. It's stated that the trolls were openly hostile though, and part of the peace deal with the Zandalari was no more troll incursions. As to humans, my understanding was they were pulled into a conflict between Amani and the High Elves, over them settling in sacred troll land. I've never seen anything to indicate the trolls tried diplomacy in either case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I'm going to link this again:



    "The noble races of the Alliance are bound together by proud traditions of nobility, honor, faith, justice, and sacrifice.

    The many different Alliance peoples all contribute their technical, arcane and spiritual wisdom toward the goal of a peaceful and just world."

    Sounds like a family to me.

    Meanwhile:

    "the proud nations of the horde are loosely joined in an alliance of convenience against a hostile world that would see them destroyed."

    Sound like a rag tag bunch of races with similar circumstances being put together.
    Old news is Old


    The indomitable Horde is driven by unity. They are fervent keepers of freedom and hope, relentlessly opposed to any who threaten these ideals, including the stringent Alliance.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    . I've never seen anything to indicate the trolls tried diplomacy in either case.
    To be fair they don't have to, driving out any and all foreign settlers isn't really such a strange thing to do and it does not give the invaders a free pass to take land either.

    As to humans, my understanding was they were pulled into a conflict between Amani and the High Elves, over them settling in sacred troll land
    They were already in conflict, since humans were already sitting on troll land, the trolls were raiding them long before the high elves got into the picture, it is why the humans built a giant wall in hopes to keep them out.

  13. #73
    The alliance generally has always been more united in its goals, while the Horde has always been much more chaotic and less likely to work together as time went on.

  14. #74
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Neither one is... They are both political entities that exist to provide for the mutual defense of their member states, nothing more, nothing less.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    To be fair they don't have to, driving out any and all foreign settlers isn't really such a strange thing to do and it does not give the invaders a free pass to take land either.
    I know, mostly put that in due to the usual stuff around here about "ermagerd Night Elves slaughtered the poor orcs who just wanted wood!"

    They were already in conflict, since humans were already sitting on troll land, the trolls were raiding them long before the high elves got into the picture, it is why the humans built a giant wall in hopes to keep them out.
    I thought Thoradin and the Arathi were the first human conflict with trolls, and that in response to calls from the high elves. What did I miss?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post

    I thought Thoradin and the Arathi were the first human conflict with trolls, and that in response to calls from the high elves. What did I miss?
    The humans were always in conflict with the trolls, they are the main reason thoradin united them, because he was scared the trolls would crush humanity otherwise.

    The wall was the first thing he ordered build after he was finished uniting his people.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2021-06-17 at 01:50 AM.

  17. #77
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    I've never seen anything to indicate the trolls tried diplomacy in either case.
    Trolls were as much obligated to diplomacy (at least in that case) as nelfs were when orcs invaded Ashenvale. Sure, they might have sent an emissary ala Taran Zhu, "gtfo rn or suffer the consequences", but you can hardly blame them for shooting first and asking questions later. After all, there was a time when Azeroth wasn't ruled by the Geneva Convention, difficult as it may be to believe.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Trolls were as much obligated to diplomacy (at least in that case) as nelfs were when orcs invaded Ashenvale. Sure, they might have sent an emissary ala Taran Zhu, "gtfo rn or suffer the consequences", but you can hardly blame them for shooting first and asking questions later. After all, there was a time when Azeroth wasn't ruled by the Geneva Convention, difficult as it may be to believe.
    Yep, you got my point exactly. Mind if I quote you the next time the Orc Defense League sobs about "just gathering wood"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  19. #79
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Yep, you got my point exactly. Mind if I quote you the next time the Orc Defense League sobs about "just gathering wood"?
    Help yourself, my dude
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Old news is Old


    The indomitable Horde is driven by unity. They are fervent keepers of freedom and hope, relentlessly opposed to any who threaten these ideals, including the stringent Alliance.
    Yeah, doesn't sound like them.
    It's a 'pink glasses' view.
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