Is the Alliance or the Horde the true "family" of World of Warcraft?

[OwenBurton]

The Alliance and the Horde are like polar opposites in a certain way - but one commonality is that both factions have been described as "families" in the past. I found this to be a really powerful and simple quote:

Why are the Darkspear in rebellion against Garrosh?
<Vol'jin twists his face into a scowl.>
Ya wouldn't understand. What's de Horde ta ya, <race>? Diseased? Alien? Betrayers? Demon-blooded? Beasts? I know what ya say 'bout us.
I'll tell ya what de Horde is. De Horde dat me an' Thrall built. It be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, de family come an' pick us back up.
Hellscream, he don't see family. Ain't never had one.

But according to this interview by Steve Danuser:
That being said, while the Horde story is currently one of deep division, Danuser notes that the Alliance aren’t at each other’s throats. "The Alliance is like a family. Brothers and sisters can disagree, and things can get heated, but there’s still a deep and abiding love and trust there."

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/15/18...s-of-vengeance

The Alliance values unity, harmony, and cooperation - it is built on those who are drawn to each other based on similar values, people who are drawn towards things they are most familiar with, who are most like them. That is why the Tushui value harmony above all other values, and were drawn towards the faction in the first place. Why Varian declared that a bundle of sticks is not easily broken.

"Hm. I used to think that leadership was all about strength. I see things more clearly now - It's a little bit of give, a little bit of take. It's about binding people together. A bundle of sticks is not easily broken."

The Horde is based on differences - on diversity, on the outcast, the formerly oppressed and misunderstood, the downtrodden, marginalized and victimized elements of society, often ignored, shunned and neglected, who believe in compromise out of necessity, and the ends justifying the means.

"When will they learn? When will they see that the Horde exists BECAUSE of the Alliance? Because of their prejudice and their bigotry!? They force us ever closer to Hellscream's Horde."

"We dark rangers were fiercely loyal to Sylvanas. We trusted her... followed her commands.
It is clear that our loyalty was never truly reciprocated.
Some of my sisters and brothers have chosen to remain at the Dark Lady's side. I, and many others, have not.
<Velonara's expression becomes steely. Determined.>
I refuse to be a slave to this torment. Both the sin'dorei and Forsaken are my kin. I stand with them, and with the Horde.”

In other words, what makes a true family, a real family? Those who are most like you, inside and out? Those who always try their hardest to carefully avoid fighting as best they can, and constantly strive for harmony?

Or those who are most different from you, and who fight with each other, and love to fight with each other all the time, because they believe it is actually conflict, the belief that most families are broken and imperfect and are supposed to be, and that it is our fundamental and individual differences, which define a family, NOT abstract things like the ideal of perfect unity and cooperation, or harmony and balance, whatever those are supposed to mean?

[OwenBurton]

In essence, I think both Vol'jin's Horde and the Alliance before Tyrande nearly fractured its ranks are "families" - one is a family embracing its imperfection and internal conflict, and the other a family striving for total perfection and trying to avoid conflict.

I'm not sure if either faction right now counts as a real family.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The only way the horde could be a family is if it’s an abusive one where the kids are scared to talk out against the Parents for a fear of being beaten or kicked out.

The alliance would instead be a family who’s kids have moved out and can do there own thing freely even if not every one agrees with that thing but will all drive out to help if one of them is in need.

[Feanoro]

The Horde is based on differences - on diversity, on the outcast, the misunderstood, the downtrodden and victimized elements of society, often ignored, shunned and neglected, who believe in compromise out of necessity, and the ends justifying the means.

"When will they learn? When will they see that the Horde exists BECAUSE of the Alliance? Because of their prejudice and their bigotry!? They force us ever closer to Hellscream's Horde."

That's certainly the stated intent, but what they show makes all of that pure bullshit. The Alliance formed in response to a demon fueled army of monsters that later expected everyone to just forget about the masses they slaughtered and places they burned.

Outcasts my foot.

Trolls are incredibly xenophobic and have a massive superiority complex, historically attacking on sight and eating any other humanoids. Oddly enough, that doesn't do wonders for their social calendars with other races. Outside the Horde, that largely hasn't changed. Inside the Horde, they merrily go along with every slaughter du jour and just like Orcs, wonder why people fear and hate them. Can't imagine why people would fear and hate serial killers...

Tauren have increasingly been shown to be fools for staying in the Horde, as Cairne is dead and his oath was to Thrall. They're simply thought of as dumb muscle by the Garrosh types. They're judged for going along with the Horde chimp outs, with only Baine ineffectively protesting. (In before the Baine foaming at the mouth hate posts)

Goblins are canonically despised by Azeroth herself for destroying everything they get near. They're not family, they use the rest of the Horde as muscle and meat shields.

Blood Elves are Horde for Kael'thas pouting and blaming the entire Alliance for one jackass human. They've flirted with leaving multiple times because they view the rest of the Horde as barbarians and beasts.

Undead are Horde because Tauren are stupid and thought you can cure death and decomposition. From vanilla onwards, it was made clear the Forsaken are using the Horde for protection, not any real loyalty.

Zandalari are Horde because BfA was a train wreck that was transporting industrial waste.

Pandas are Horde because it was MoP's gimmick. There ought to be stories about pandas conflicted about killing friends and family who chose Alliance, but all logic goes out the window for the idiotic faction divide.

Nightborne are Horde because Thalyssra was lobotomized at the end of Legion and they wanted Horde to have a non Blood Elf model.



The Horde might have been family in WC3 and Thrall era, but now it's composed of races that by all rights should be at each others' throats. In before someone completely fails to understand my point is Blizz SAYS one thing and SHOWS us something else entirely.

[Soon-TM]

The only way the horde could be a family is if it’s an abusive one where the kids are scared to talk out against the Parents for a fear of being beaten or kicked out.

The alliance would instead be a family who’s kids have moved out and can do there own thing freely even if not every one agrees with that thing but will all drive out to help if one of them is in need.

Except if you are a nelf, I guess...

But at all rates, factions already felt like they were losing their identities around the time of MoP. Varian becoming a de facto blue Warchief and the Horde getting all the internal infighting of the pre WC3 Alliance was dumb enough, and it only got worse in MoP 2.0 aka BfA.

[schwarzkopf]

By definition the "World of Warcraft" is defined by war, that war is Horde vs Alliance.

So both are required for any 'family' of World of Warcraft, before the war - there was no Warcraft.

What has changed over the years is who is fighting who, but the war is a common thread throughout - and that war defines that all are family.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except if you are a nelf, I guess...

But at all rates, factions already felt like they were losing their identities around the time of MoP. Varian becoming a de facto blue Warchief and the Horde getting all the internal infighting of the pre WC3 Alliance was dumb enough, and it only got worse in MoP 2.0 aka BfA.

Well ya before bfa, Varian also wasn’t even close to a blue warchief he was just the military commander with a new name he didn’t have even a fraction of the war chiefs power which we saw when two of the three hammers leaders told him to get bent and only Moria supported him.

[Soon-TM]

he didn’t have even a fraction of the war chiefs power which we saw when two of the three hammers leaders told him to get bent and only Moria supported him.

That's why I said he was a de facto Warchief, not a de jure one. He may not have had any "legal" powers, but everyone in the Alliance did as he said, without even saying a word. Except Tyrande I guess, who had to be schooled about patience and discipline by the guy who was fighting his first war ever LOL

[Dellis0991]

Each as a collective aren't so much "family" like but on a smaller scale some races within each faction get along way better with each other compared to other races within each faction like gnomes and dwarves get along famously where as trolls and orcs were real cool till Gary fucked it up so I'll say blood elves and nightborne get along really good.

[VinceVega]

Alliance respects and actually likes each other. Tyrande and Anduin have a small falling out but nothing major.

Horde on the other hand, have an absent father, had a abusive mother, an another abusive father and half its members openly dislike the others. The only reason they are still together is because rent is cheaper and they live in an unsafe neighbourhood so it is safer together (if you want to stay with that methaphor)
Horde is basically only necessity at that point. With the tauren in the middle trying to make it work while everyone else is activly working against it.

[Stardrift]

Blizzard tried making the Horde look like noble savages, but then they started making them commit WW2 era type genocide lmao

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard tried making the Horde look like noble savages, but then they started making them commit WW2 era type genocide lmao

While fully whitewashing the Alliance at the same time.

[Kithelle]

I don't think either are

The Alliance are allies who work together but they're just so different from one another (Except now in BFA/SL they've been homogenized to be all lovey dovey no matter what and act like Sylvanas was just misunderstood instead of the murderer she is)

The Horde, they just seem like they have their own cliques but aren't a family...like the Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren have Shamnism. The Blood Elves and Nightborne have magic...the Goblins have technology and greed...and the Forsaken, well they're the Forsaken

[Ardenaso]

-snip-

Darkspears are outcasts because the Kul Tirans attempted genocide to them in just Warcraft 3 alone. I believe they aren't the Trolls you listed there, who would be the Zandalari, Amani, Gurubashi, etc.

Blood Elves are already Horde before they even found out what happened to Kael'thas and Garithos; also they joined the Horde because the Alliance refused aid to them for 6 years while they were sending forces to Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands, etc. but for some reason not in Quel'thalas

[geco]

Neither is a femilia.

The alliance would be the type of family where they rape their Aunt and kill their cousins. But since the son of the previous alpha male befriended the rapist, they all side with the rapist and accuse the Tia of how she was beast that day and they treat her crazy because of how they beast.
And at least Genn and Anduin have a reaction to the issue. The rest of the leaders seem to give the same is a horrible issue. So in themselves they are just that an Alliance. Nor do they feel empathy for each other.

The horde on the other hand ... well Baien is racist with Horde races and is the current leader. On the other hand, it is a family that always does the same. When you get out of the way, instead of trying to help you, they hope how to get rid of his mistakes and then they throw it away.

Neither shows a "family" trait. In fact, they are hardly alliances.

Edit

Alliance respects and actually likes each other. Tyrande and Anduin have a small falling out but nothing major.

Not.
What Anduin did to the Kaldorei is anything but respect.
And Tyrande not even reading her letters is not respect, either.

In essence, I think both Vol'jin's Horde and the Alliance before Tyrande nearly fractured its ranks are "families" - one is a family embracing its imperfection and internal conflict, and the other a family striving for total perfection and trying to avoid conflict.

Voljin tried to create a family and he was about to achieve it. Sylvanas really respected him and at least in the voice acting and novels she felt that she respected him.
Poer from the blue side is not Tyrande who breaks the illusion of family. It is the alliance by simply throwing her tho the wolves back at her that breaks the Family Illusion.

[Feanoro]

The alliance would be the type of family where they rape their Aunt and kill their cousins. But since the son of the previous alpha male befriended the rapist, they all side with the rapist and accuse the Tia of how she was beast that day and they treat her crazy because of how they beast.

Whiskey tango foxtrot.

Neither shows a "family" trait. In fact, they are hardly alliances.

Remember, Danuser thinks S8 GOT was great.

What Anduin did to the Kaldorei is anything but respect.
And Tyrande not even reading her letters is not respect, either.

Anduin only cares about the Horde's welfare. Tyrande doesn't owe that sniveling pissant anything, let alone respect.

Sylvanas really respected him and at least in the voice acting and novels she felt that she respected him.

Until BfA and SL revealed she knows about the fourth wall and lies in her private thoughts in case someone reads them.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

• The Horde historically has a violent transition in power every 2 years, with Thrall to Garrosh being the only peaceful transition of power.

• The Horde under Blackhand squashed the Frostwolf tribe for not going along with genocide. "What, you're not going to help us eat Draenei babies and pave the path to the Dark Portal with Draenei bones? You're a traitor to Orc-kind and should be eliminated!". There was a lot of infighting, and after Blackhand died at Blackrock mountain, the Horde disintegrated. Lots of Orc on Orc violence in the decades after. The Horde lost the war in BFA, and already the Mag'har Orcs want to try to fight the Alliance again (despite the Alliance having won every single war against the Horde).

• The Troll tribes sure like to fight with each other.

• The Forsaken regularly murder and torture their own family members for the crime of... not joining a horrendously evil regime.

• Goblins habitually sell their own mothers for pocketchange. Gallywix was a slave trader.

• Every Horde player is guilty of betraying their Warchief. Twice.

• Each time the Alliance beats the Horde, the Horde is at risk of fracturing and requires extraordinary changes in leadership in order to try to keep it together.

Contrast that with the Alliance:

• Have been allies firmly united together for the past 30+ years.

• Except for the assassination of King Menethil and Llane Wyrnn, all transistions of power have been peaceful. No head of state has been killed by another Alliance member.

• Has their shit together.

• Collaborates to build up their industry and restore each other's lands and accommodate each other.

"There is only one Alliance, but there has been 7 different Hordes."

[bloodkin]

• The Horde historically has a violent transition in power every 2 years, with Thrall to Garrosh being the only peaceful transition of power.

• The Horde under Blackhand squashed the Frostwolf tribe for not going along with genocide. "What, you're not going to help us eat Draenei babies and pave the path to the Dark Portal with Draenei bones? You're a traitor to Orc-kind and should be eliminated!". There was a lot of infighting, and after Blackhand died at Blackrock mountain, the Horde disintegrated. Lots of Orc on Orc violence in the decades after. The Horde lost the war in BFA, and already the Mag'har Orcs want to try to fight the Alliance again (despite the Alliance having won every single war against the Horde).

• The Troll tribes sure like to fight with each other.

• The Forsaken regularly murder and torture their own family members for the crime of... not joining a horrendously evil regime.

• Goblins habitually sell their own mothers for pocketchange. Gallywix was a slave trader.

• Every Horde player is guilty of betraying their Warchief. Twice.

• Each time the Alliance beats the Horde, the Horde is at risk of fracturing and requires extraordinary changes in leadership in order to try to keep it together.

Contrast that with the Alliance:

• Have been allies firmly united together for the past 30+ years.

• Except for the assassination of King Menethil and Llane Wyrnn, all transistions of power have been peaceful. No head of state has been killed by another Alliance member.

• Has their shit together.

• Collaborates to build up their industry and restore each other's lands and accommodate each other.

"There is only one Alliance, but there has been 7 different Hordes."

This is a nice list. It perfectly shows why blizz has Alliance favouritism, although some might say that there is nothing special going on, at least there is stability. As a mainly horde player, I have grown increasingly frustrated and tired of the way blizz is mistreating the horde and it's leadership. The only reason why I am still not fully ally is because of the shit/bland leaders. I dislike anduin, alleria, genn, mecatorque and turalyon. And since blizz decided that wow should be a shitty drama series, it's kind of hard to root for ally (dislikeable leaders) or horde (constant self-destruction) it makes me wish blizz would fix everything.

[ScipioMoroder]

In theory, Thrall's Horde was a "family", but ever since Garrosh to Sylvanas it's basically been an abusive relationship.

[Feanoro]

• The Horde historically has a violent transition in power every 2 years, with Thrall to Garrosh being the only peaceful transition of power.

• The Horde under Blackhand squashed the Frostwolf tribe for not going along with genocide. "What, you're not going to help us eat Draenei babies and pave the path to the Dark Portal with Draenei bones? You're a traitor to Orc-kind and should be eliminated!". There was a lot of infighting, and after Blackhand died at Blackrock mountain, the Horde disintegrated. Lots of Orc on Orc violence in the decades after. The Horde lost the war in BFA, and already the Mag'har Orcs want to try to fight the Alliance again (despite the Alliance having won every single war against the Horde).

• The Troll tribes sure like to fight with each other.

• The Forsaken regularly murder and torture their own family members for the crime of... not joining a horrendously evil regime.

• Goblins habitually sell their own mothers for pocketchange. Gallywix was a slave trader.

• Every Horde player is guilty of betraying their Warchief. Twice.

• Each time the Alliance beats the Horde, the Horde is at risk of fracturing and requires extraordinary changes in leadership in order to try to keep it together.

Contrast that with the Alliance:

• Have been allies firmly united together for the past 30+ years.

• Except for the assassination of King Menethil and Llane Wyrnn, all transistions of power have been peaceful. No head of state has been killed by another Alliance member.

• Has their shit together.

• Collaborates to build up their industry and restore each other's lands and accommodate each other.

"There is only one Alliance, but there has been 7 different Hordes."

Largely, this is because the writers can't be bothered with writing Alliance, so after vanilla, they just became the Humans and their Best Pals Club. In vanilla, there was tension and some internal problems, including Onyxia's plans to shatter human society and alienate them from the rest of the Alliance. TBC focused heavily on the Horde, since they were "going home". Wrath, if it mentioned the factions had High King Dipshit I building statues and being pissed off, while Horde had Garrosh foaming at the mouth and cutting off Thrall's balls publicly at every chance. From Cata onwards, Horde fully drives the story with Alliance reduced to NPCs and plot devices. The writers gobble up the GOT style drama and produce a comic book level version of it within the Horde.