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  1. #61
    Malfurion was amazing in legion

  2. #62
    Thats sure is a lot of opinions presented as fact.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    I mained a Paladin when I picked up WoW more than 10 years ago cause when I read up on the lore, Paladins really stood out. You had Uther, Arthas, Turalyon, Tirion Fordring, Bolvar, among others. Its almost like Blizzard forgot Paladin's existed after WTLK.
    Yep and sadly the current devs cant even portray the eld cool stuff at all like in shl Uther is terrible disappointing.

  4. #64
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Well, he did a great job being damsel in distress!
    TYRANDE, WHERE AAAARE YOU?!

    God, those fucking quests... Tyrande ignores the plight of her fucking people to run after her idiot of a husband. Sigh.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer
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    Yeah it's because Blizzard shits on everyone being Lawful Good. Just watch, they'll make the LIGHT of all things out to be bad and evil and wrong. Not excessive, not unnecessary, not overzealous, just fucking straight out villainous evil like they do every other flat out evil things now like the fucking Jailer. It's going to suck. The Void, however, is gonna be showcased as misunderstood and good for reasons just like Sylvanas. That's just how it's gonna be and I hate it.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  6. #66
    Right, they butchered Paladin lore since... MoP I think, and everything since has been a complete farce. What's the point in looking for good lore nowadays, you're only asking to get hurt lol 20 odd years of "gameplay is more important" has made the class a bad joke :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Ah, yes. I forgot that Paladins automatically become more interesting and complex characters when you turn them into cows.
    Same shit thats muddied D&D, "human fighter is boring so I will replace good roleplay with a crazy race/class combo because thats the same thing as good roleplay hurrdurr, meet my gnome barbarian/warlock/bard"
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  7. #67
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    Blizz has cut his veins. Lore is fucked to the bone already.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    there is the belf warlock who curse varian (or was it medan) with that dreadlock curse, also big deal
    Most of the conclave u form in Legion are all big shots too
    But yeah generally it is really hard to find a good warlock
    The real issue with warlocks isn't that there aren't interesting warlocks so much as it is that the interesting non-villian warlocks, only appear in warlock specific quests. Every other class is also represented with at least one heroic major lore character. As far as none warlock players are concerned the only non villianous warlock character that exists might as well be Tehd, and don't get me wrong, Tehd is amazing, but tehd is also comic relief. Outside of this our two major character is Gul'dan, who is a moustache twirler, and Kanrethad, who only appears in warlock quests, and also is also technically a reference to a developer.(Actually, Iirc the entire council of the black harvest are references to the developer and player team that worked on the MoP warlock overhaul so I'm not sure you can count any of them. )

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I want this for the Horde: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ban...(Warcraft_III)

    I'd prefer the Scarlets are truly gone, Thassarian had the Scarlet Monastery cleared to the last crusader and the last remaining ones are stuck up in Dalaran

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    the Silver Hand joined the Alliance in the Arathi Warfront and the Argent Crusade remained neutral

    Liadrin (if the PC isn't a Paladin) most likely returned the Ashbringer to Maxwell Tyrosus/Eligor Dawnbringer since they should be the highest ranked Argent Crusaders now
    When it comes to Scarlets i think they missed a huge story chance where they could have had a story about several new heroic paladins fighting from within leading to a cleansing of the demonic corruption that they did suffer from.

    The Arathi warfront was not really any lore

  10. #70
    What classes ARE represented in lore as per Shadowlands?

    Priest(ish) = Anduin
    Hunter(ish) = Tyrande + Sylvanas
    Mage = Jaina
    Shaman = Thrall (side note when did he actually get his powers back since he uses them in Sylvanas fight - genuine question I cannot remember if it happened?)
    DK = Mograine / Bolvar(?)

    Arguably Kael, Draka, Uther, and Shandris.

    I would say the main problem isn't the lack of paladins but a general narrow character focus. With the exception of Anduin, Thrall, Jaina, and Sylvanas characters are only brought into play when they have a direct stake in the story and then paused until they can be brought back. I always found this to be a weakness of the Warcraft universe and why it worked better when the character arcs were less uniquely personal and more in line with the larger plot (IE arc of Arthas = Scourge, Sylvanas (WC3) = Forsaken, Tyrande (9.1) = Night Elves after Teldrassil, Thrall (WC3) = Orcs). If a character is primarily the mouthpiece of a faction, rather than an individual, then dropping them and picking them up is less frustrating.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Right, they butchered Paladin lore since... MoP I think, and everything since has been a complete farce. What's the point in looking for good lore nowadays, you're only asking to get hurt lol 20 odd years of "gameplay is more important" has made the class a bad joke :P

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    Same shit thats muddied D&D, "human fighter is boring so I will replace good roleplay with a crazy race/class combo because thats the same thing as good roleplay hurrdurr, meet my gnome barbarian/warlock/bard"
    Meanwhile the average person will always grivitate towards playing a regular human dude with a sword. It actually gave me a good chuckle when Larian Studios revealed the most popular character choices for their D&D game (Baldur's Gate 3) and it was just the most generic looking white dude. I don't know why so many people (or even companies) assume that these wacky choices are super important to the average player.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  12. #72
    Paladins was always the religious extremists in WoW, from the Scarlett Crusade and Knights of the silver hand.

    So just as in real life, there never was any good paladins, and most likely there will never be.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Meanwhile the average person will always grivitate towards playing a regular human dude with a sword. It actually gave me a good chuckle when Larian Studios revealed the most popular character choices for their D&D game (Baldur's Gate 3) and it was just the most generic looking white dude. I don't know why so many people (or even companies) assume that these wacky choices are super important to the average player.
    underdog complex + wanting to emulate themselves in a fantasy world; as for me that's why I want Alteraci Humans for the Horde so badly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The Scarlet Crusade is like a fungus though. In Vanilla player trashed the Monastery, together with all their outposts in the Plaguelands and Stratholme. Darion and Alexandros' ghost also wreaked havoc in the Monastery at some point. Then WotLK came and Abbendis made it clear that the Scarlet outposts in Lordaeron had been overrun, with the Scarlet Onslaught becoming the remaining hope for the cause. Then the Forsaken and the Ebon Blade alike took a detour from the war against the Lich King and wiped their asses with the Onslaught as well.

    Yet in Cataclysm they magically repopulated the Scarlet Monastery again. Only for it to be sacked by the Forsaken again, this time under the command of Dark Ranger Velonara. Meanwhile Balnazzar killed all Scarlet Crusade and Crimson Legion members in the Plaguelands and Stratholme and resurrected them as Risen. Then they magically repopulated the monastery again and got sacked again, this time by Lilian Voss. Then the fungus came back in Legion, only to be cleansed for the hundredth time, this time with the Ebon Blade getting another chance to wipe them, but probably not for good. And even the Onslaught somehow survived in Northrend, as they were also active in Legion.
    that, and the WotLK-Cata part never made sense to me as why would Arthas take the effort to clear the rural parts of Tyr's Hand but not proper Tyr's Hand itself
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    underdog complex + wanting to emulate themselves in a fantasy world; as for me that's why I want Alteraci Humans for the Horde so badly
    There's one problem with underdog characters though. You can't really be considered an underdog if everyone else is exactly like you. This is basically the problem with writers pushing these "underdog views/characters" into the mainstream. Much of what defined these characters and made them interesting was their opposition to an established order/status quo. It only really works if you have a universe with very strict rules and norms because the underdog character exists through their opposition to these rules. If you take away the boundaries by e.g. making every story revolve around underdog characters you completely change the dynamic in a way that will make these characters bland/uninteresting again. It's how you end up with characters like Blanduin and Jaina who, once they were firmly established, lost all of their narrative value and turned into empty husks that merely exist to push the plot in whatever direction is needed at the moment.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    Paladins was always the religious extremists in WoW, from the Scarlett Crusade and Knights of the silver hand.

    So just as in real life, there never was any good paladins, and most likely there will never be.
    The silver hand was always pretty moderate as far as religious organizations go.
    Both; for real life and ingame standards; so i don't know where you get the "extremist"-vibe from.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Yeah it's because Blizzard shits on everyone being Lawful Good. Just watch, they'll make the LIGHT of all things out to be bad and evil and wrong. Not excessive, not unnecessary, not overzealous, just fucking straight out villainous evil like they do every other flat out evil things now like the fucking Jailer. It's going to suck. The Void, however, is gonna be showcased as misunderstood and good for reasons just like Sylvanas. That's just how it's gonna be and I hate it.
    I agree, it's become such a cliche at this point.

    It's like any supernatural style show that has angels. They so often make the angels the bad guys that the idea their subverting has now become the minority to their depiction of angels as being bad.

    I reckon it's a lot of angstheists or people who want to add in Light/Angelic sort of supernatural themes without having to deal with the moral/ethical consequences of their existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    Paladins was always the religious extremists in WoW, from the Scarlett Crusade and Knights of the silver hand.

    So just as in real life, there never was any good paladins, and most likely there will never be.
    Devoutly religious people have done plenty of good as well. It depends where you draw the line on what "extremist" means.

    But I get the feeling this is probably not a great community for discussing these ideas.
    "cast not pearls before swine" and all that.

  17. #77
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    Devoutly religious people have done plenty of good as well. It depends where you draw the line on what "extremist" means.

    But I get the feeling this is probably not a great community for discussing these ideas.
    "cast not pearls before swine" and all that.
    Uther is best example of devoted religious paladin who is clearly good, even if he did some wrongs he is no question a good guy
    the only wrong imo he did was his general judge over orcs in general
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  18. #78
    I don’t even know, I haven’t seen anything like it yet.

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