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  1. #361
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrannicalPuppy View Post


    So, translation, Scenarios led to gear. Glad you agreed and disagreed with that at the same time.

    Meanwhile Torghast gives you gear that can only be worn one piece at a time and for many classes is bound to have an almost useless effect
    Really now? Many classes legendries are almost useless effects? really now? uh huh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiacla View Post
    I don't know what's worse, the fact that Blizzard wasted time giving Preach the time of day, or Preach's new horrendous fake hair . Grow old with dignity dude.
    fake hair? its real hair my dude... do you even follow preach? he had a procedure done so he could finally stop being bald...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    ... was he implying that 20% power difference is low ? That's plain retarded.
    20% dps increase from the start of normal to the end of heroic is low.
    maybe you should get yourself checked out.

    cause i danm well know someone who is fully final bosses of heroic geared, should be 20% stronger then someone in only the basic normal first few bosses gear.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Low point.

    This xpac literally has more players than the last 4xpacs.

    My guid has gotten 200 new members in the last month. Returning players.
    Clearly trolling with 0 credibility.

    This guy is 100% sarcastic, mocking Blizzard and laughing at Ion.

  3. #363
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    World Quests fucking blow in Shittylands, it's like clocking into a factory job. Time to get to work. And they drop useless crap.

    No flight whistle. Ugh.

    Still needing to travel through Oribos to get between each zone is ridiculous.

    Covenants are stupid and useless.
    Soulbinds and the stuff is dumb
    Anima is stupid
    Soul Ash another grind

    These stupid game systems need to fucking go and never return.

    Bored-ghast a fucking sad tedious joke waste of time, that for some reason doesn't drop gear rewards.


    Man I miss MoP style expansion.
    Quality over quantity. Unfortunately though quality content eventually runs out and people stop playing which makes their MAU look bad. Which I'm fine with, as long as I had fun. I would rather stop playing the game from having no more content than stop playing from apathy and frustration. But blizzard doesn't share the same sentiments.

  4. #364
    Anyone that wants a good laugh, go check out the wowhead post.

    A bunch of morons posting shit like "uh big bad ion is wrong cuz my 200 ilvl mage is doing 1.5k (lol so fucking bad) and 226 mages are doing like 8k!!! Gear bad! Blizz bad!"

    Definently a big skill issue with this community and glad Ion told bads to git gud.

  5. #365
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    This guy is a part of the game=s downfall.
    It is fun how they consider "new features" for Torghast as something actually new... it is the same shit. More trash mobs in a trash mobs tower.
    More borrowed power systems.

    They should get the hint from all the people playing on Classic... we want WoW to be WoW, not some modern quick match making crap.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    It's so weird that this community will idolize a completely out-of-touch man like Jeff Kaplan but hate Ion. Ion at least acknowledges that his game has to be made fun for a wide variety of players. Blizzard is failing at it miserably right now, but that's not necessarily Ion's fault.

    Shadowlands is definitely a low point for the franchise though. I think WoD is the only other time in the history of WoW that I stopped playing before the first major content patch.
    His game? you're fucking delusional. The people who made this game are no longer with blizzard. The current Person who owns this game is Activision, the person who is in charge of World of Warcraft is Ion dickhead. He's the person who is making all the decisions in-game so yes he's at fault?. Why are more players active in classic than retail?. Is this bullshit?, log in retail go find anyone out in the retail world other than Orobus, it's Covid in Shadowlands right now. The devs make decisions without reaching out to the majority of the community. The only way things are going to change is if Activision implements a system where whenever the Dev's decision to "talk to themselves and make decisions" the community has a voting system to shut their stupid ideas down. This puts them in the open and exposes them to explain their stupidity rather than promote ignorance.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    Anyone that wants a good laugh, go check out the wowhead post.

    A bunch of morons posting shit like "uh big bad ion is wrong cuz my 200 ilvl mage is doing 1.5k (lol so fucking bad) and 226 mages are doing like 8k!!! Gear bad! Blizz bad!"

    Definently a big skill issue with this community and glad Ion told bads to git gud.
    Yes. But also no. Here's an example:

    Two characters, A and B, equal in every other respect except ilvl. B has higher ilvl than A, and to simplify things lets just assume that translates to B doing 20% more damage than A. If A deals 5 dmg, B deals 6. Now, assume they have to kill a 70 health npc, and they both open with a cooldown that doubles their damage output for 4 seconds. Here is their per second output and cummulative damage, in the format "damage done this second (cummulative damage)":

    A - 10dmg(10total), 10(20), 10(30), 10(40), 5(45), 5(50), 5(55), 5(60), 5(65), 5(70) - Mob dead in 10 seconds, 7dps.
    B - 12dmg(12total), 12(24), 12(36), 12(48), 6(54), 6(60), 6(66), 6(72) - Mob dead in 8 seconds, 8.75dps.

    B had a DPS 25% higher than A. The idea I'm trying to convey is that things like burst windows, fight duration and douple-dipping cooldowns surely account for at least part of the perceived "non-linear scaling". That said, yes, skill is still the major factor.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by pfbe View Post
    Yes. But also no. Here's an example:

    Two characters, A and B, equal in every other respect except ilvl. B has higher ilvl than A, and to simplify things lets just assume that translates to B doing 20% more damage than A. If A deals 5 dmg, B deals 6. Now, assume they have to kill a 70 health npc, and they both open with a cooldown that doubles their damage output for 4 seconds. Here is their per second output and cummulative damage, in the format "damage done this second (cummulative damage)":

    A - 10dmg(10total), 10(20), 10(30), 10(40), 5(45), 5(50), 5(55), 5(60), 5(65), 5(70) - Mob dead in 10 seconds, 7dps.
    B - 12dmg(12total), 12(24), 12(36), 12(48), 6(54), 6(60), 6(66), 6(72) - Mob dead in 8 seconds, 8.75dps.

    B had a DPS 25% higher than A. The idea I'm trying to convey is that things like burst windows, fight duration and douple-dipping cooldowns surely account for at least part of the perceived "non-linear scaling". That said, yes, skill is still the major factor.
    Yes... that's how the video game works...

    You also have 210 alts of non trash players pulling more dps than full 226 "waited on the vault for weeks" dumpsters who gray parse.

    If you have the skill you get better gear. If you have the skill you play with better people. If you have the skill you do more damage.

    Pretty simple really. So when people with garbage stats, low ilvl and no clue how to play their class complain, I just laugh and tell them they are trash because killing a boss in 8 minutes when players are killing it in 3 is a pretty big deal.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Well gear is always going to be a big factor, Preach was just arguing it had a larger factor than in the past. Confirming that isn't something you can easily prove but people in this thread have already made up their minds one way or another.

    Being good enough for Mythic is more about just learning and understanding the fights, it's not a skill you can learn in heroic. I started raiding in this expansion in January after 4 years off and I think was around 213 when we killed Shriekwing Mythic, with a few pugs in group (guild didn't have a mythic roster then, and had no prior plans to raid mythic), but most of my gear came from M+ and I've been ilvl226 for a good while, not doing any content other than logging in once a week 2 hours of raiding. A lot of guilds are at this point or have stopped entirely.

    This I realized already. I'm not new to MMOs, I come from FF and BDO where your gearing paths are either extremely branched out, but you also have many a source to acquire gear, or there is a very set path to gear that you can aim towards with ease, but then the upgrades are what is taking time and it's a matter of luck and grind (season server gear systems). It is rare that players end up sitting on the same gear and itemlevel for 6+ months and I'm not sure how much of it can be attributed to Corona and the fact WoW Devs had to work from home. I guess they're behind schedule for new content?

    Getting gear is easy, you can do M+ and get up to 220 via valor and a 226 vault. If you want to move forward you have to take some inititive here and do what you must (ask for help?) to get geared. You said you get 50-90 parses but the 225 hunter gets grey but does more dps, that doesn't make sense unless you're talking about Ilvl bracket, by which point the comparison is kinda meaningless because higher ilvl bracket is where all the good players currently are. You can literally have a 99% parse on heroic and in the same guild on Mythic end up with green or grey parses just due to a scuffed strategy or execution, or because you were cheesing on Heroic and on Mythic you don't cheese because you need to kill the boss. Your parses are closely tied to the entire performance of your raid, at least for most classes on most bosses.

    I have cleared up to M+12 by pulling my own weight, meaning in groups of similar item level to mine. But the M+15 is actually hard. So hard in fact that I couldn't time any +15 yet. As I said, I am still barely learning the game and not achieving a performance of veterans is okay for me. But I always thought that the benefit of this game over others is the raiding system and I find it somewhat weird that my gearing progression needs to come from the M+ content. But it is what it is.

    Regarding the parses, yes. I've looked at item level parses because it strikes me as more fair to compare myself to others of similar gear, rather than the overall parses where people with better gear will obviously pull higher numbers. Is that wrong?


    If your guild is progressing on 5/10 a lot of guilds at this point are just extending the lock anyway and gearing via M+ and I think it's a hard sell to bring an inexperienced 213 hunter to Mythic Artificer/Lady. You either need to just get in M+ and gear fast or set your sights on the next tier.
    Considering that Season 2 will only take a few more weeks to arrive I'm wondering how much effort I should be putting into gearing up for Mythic NC. By the time I am finished I assume season 2 will render my efforts pointless.
    Thanks for taking your time to answer. My responses are inline

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    This guy is a part of the game=s downfall.
    It is fun how they consider "new features" for Torghast as something actually new... it is the same shit. More trash mobs in a trash mobs tower.
    More borrowed power systems.

    They should get the hint from all the people playing on Classic... we want WoW to be WoW, not some modern quick match making crap.
    They took the hint in loot drops - didn't work.
    Added old spells, lol at that.
    Match Making crap is for low end of the content and even then it's better than my current classic experience of not running a single dungeon in 30 levels because you can't find more than 3 people on "medium" realm who want to do any dungeons.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    LOL at the white knights simps, defending Shittylands and Ion on this craptastic expansion.

    I waana see WoW go back to MoP type design. Eliminate all "systems" like Artifact, Azerite, Covenants, Netherlight Crucibles, Necklaces, Essences, Corruption, Soulbinds, Anima, Conduits, Soul Ash, etc...

    None of the above should be in WoW.

    Nuke it from space, it's the only way to be sure.
    huh...with ideas like this,its amazing how wod saw wow's greatest population drop,meanwile legion and sl hit record high's in sales and populairty,weird

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    I found a guild to raid Heroic with. They already do Mythic, but won't take me because my gear doesn't produce the needed DPS. But according to my parses, I am somewhere between 50-90 on any given fight. Considering I'm basically still learning this game I find that okay. The other hunter who sometimes joins us either dicks around in Heroic, or is just terrible. Despite being Mythic geared with 225+ item level, his parses are gray. Always. He still does more net damage than I do.
    iLvl pareses are somewhat inaccurate, it's ok to see if you are doing something wrong, but it doesn't show you a good picture is in lower gear you get more - low skilled players, which inflates your standing.
    Grey ilvl parses on high ilvl might mean that your raid is just slow, because if you have high ilvl but your raid is just full of alts, you will have considerably slower runs and also at high ilvl you are competing against people who have invested a lot into their char so it's kinda like "bad premier league player is still better than good town league football player"
    Doesn't mean that low gear player is not better player than high ilvl, but in ilvl parses you are mostly competing against at this point in expansion while other guy has to compete against mains.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanious View Post
    His game? you're fucking delusional. The people who made this game are no longer with blizzard. The current Person who owns this game is Activision, the person who is in charge of World of Warcraft is Ion dickhead. He's the person who is making all the decisions in-game so yes he's at fault?. Why are more players active in classic than retail?. Is this bullshit?, log in retail go find anyone out in the retail world other than Orobus, it's Covid in Shadowlands right now. The devs make decisions without reaching out to the majority of the community. The only way things are going to change is if Activision implements a system where whenever the Dev's decision to "talk to themselves and make decisions" the community has a voting system to shut their stupid ideas down. This puts them in the open and exposes them to explain their stupidity rather than promote ignorance.
    there is zero chance classic has more players,not because retail is better,but simply because its more casual freidnly

    also this comparison you make is just silly,ofc people are in oribos,its the main city,and ofc the world can end up feeling more filled in classic,theres only 2 damn contitnents,you dont que for dungeons so you are out in the world more,lvling also takes longer,also there is far less to do in classic so ofc more people just hand around in sw

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    LOL at the white knights simps, defending Shittylands and Ion on this craptastic expansion.

    I waana see WoW go back to MoP type design. Eliminate all "systems" like Artifact, Azerite, Covenants, Netherlight Crucibles, Necklaces, Essences, Corruption, Soulbinds, Anima, Conduits, Soul Ash, etc...

    None of the above should be in WoW.

    Nuke it from space, it's the only way to be sure.
    Lol, I would rather go back to Legion, it was the best expansion for a lot of people, even those who played since early wow.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    20% dps increase from the start of normal to the end of heroic is low.
    maybe you should get yourself checked out.

    cause i danm well know someone who is fully final bosses of heroic geared, should be 20% stronger then someone in only the basic normal first few bosses gear.
    No it's not low. 1/5 more dps and survability just because of ilvel is not low at all.
    I don't know about shadowland but in previous expansions good skill was only needed in mythic raids. And it was often "stable raid group" >>> skill == gear.
    Heroic raids are pretty simple.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2021-04-29 at 08:57 AM.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanious View Post
    Why are more players active in classic than retail?. Is this bullshit?, log in retail go find anyone out in the retail world other than Orobus, it's Covid in Shadowlands right now.
    Oh, that's why in classic I haven't been able to do any dungeons PRIME TIME since I started? Whole time I leveled in Crossroads I saw 3 people, felt more like low pop private server. Plenty people in Org afking for WBFs. Plenty of people in world in SL and I don't need to wait 3 hours in town looking for a healer to do damn WC.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    Anyone that wants a good laugh, go check out the wowhead post.

    A bunch of morons posting shit like "uh big bad ion is wrong cuz my 200 ilvl mage is doing 1.5k (lol so fucking bad) and 226 mages are doing like 8k!!! Gear bad! Blizz bad!"

    Definently a big skill issue with this community and glad Ion told bads to git gud.
    i mean i progressed M Lady with my 203ilvl mage week1 and did about 3,4k-4k dps with 200 conduits and renown 11 "git gud" as ions said yes lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanious View Post
    His game? you're fucking delusional. The people who made this game are no longer with blizzard. The current Person who owns this game is Activision, the person who is in charge of World of Warcraft is Ion dickhead. He's the person who is making all the decisions in-game so yes he's at fault?. Why are more players active in classic than retail?. Is this bullshit?, log in retail go find anyone out in the retail world other than Orobus, it's Covid in Shadowlands right now. The devs make decisions without reaching out to the majority of the community. The only way things are going to change is if Activision implements a system where whenever the Dev's decision to "talk to themselves and make decisions" the community has a voting system to shut their stupid ideas down. This puts them in the open and exposes them to explain their stupidity rather than promote ignorance.
    You may check your facts my son, Jhon hight (the classic guy) is in charge of the game not Ion lol BAD lawlayer Ion is just a Game Direcktor, Jhon is a Executive Producer and Vice President of WoW (Ions Boss/higherUp).
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2021-04-29 at 09:13 AM.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I actually hate Preach. What a pathetic meta slave. This entire interview is a case study in how completely out of touch the developers and their elitist butt buddies are.

    This game is dying and it's evident because they give no fucks in developing for casuals. Kevin Jordan put it best, this is a game for 'chasers" who chase the top 1%. There's no room for anyone else.
    +1 I wonder where are some equivalent of horrific visions in SL. That was best casual / solo content since 2004 y.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    iLvl pareses are somewhat inaccurate, it's ok to see if you are doing something wrong, but it doesn't show you a good picture is in lower gear you get more - low skilled players, which inflates your standing.
    Grey ilvl parses on high ilvl might mean that your raid is just slow, because if you have high ilvl but your raid is just full of alts, you will have considerably slower runs and also at high ilvl you are competing against people who have invested a lot into their char so it's kinda like "bad premier league player is still better than good town league football player"
    Doesn't mean that low gear player is not better player than high ilvl, but in ilvl parses you are mostly competing against at this point in expansion while other guy has to compete against mains.
    Ah, got it. Thanks. The Warcraftlogs system is not extremely intuitive, but thanks to what you said the parsing makes a whole lot of more sense now.

    Regarding differences in damage purely based on gear, I do come to the same simming results as the others. 1 item level difference equals ~1% increase in DPS on a stationary single boss fight.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Ah, got it. Thanks. The Warcraftlogs system is not extremely intuitive, but thanks to what you said the parsing makes a whole lot of more sense now.

    Regarding differences in damage purely based on gear, I do come to the same simming results as the others. 1 item level difference equals ~1% increase in DPS on a stationary single boss fight.
    Yeah, logs are a good tool, but you have to know how to "read it", it still is a good indicator to have purple/orange ilvl parses at low ilvl - you are doing everything correctly, but there is more to that than just being "godlike".
    And 1% dps increase has to come from same stats, so if you have 226 bis stats boots, and your 200 is bad stats/no socket - it will result in greater increase. There are a lot of intricacies in comparing gear "fairly" - fight times, buffs, conduits and so on. That's why having higher ilvl sometimes is a dps decrease (trinkets are extreme example, or some bad secondary stat combination on item 3ilvl higher than current one) and it used to be way bigger than SL, in Legion a 15ilvl lower item could have easy been an upgrade.

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