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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by exsanguinate View Post
    wrong wrong wrong

    cataclysm professions where very strong throughout the expansion.
    In a way, maybe?

    But you then had...ARCHEOLOGY

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So what's exactly your problem with "my point", because that was my "point".
    The point is it was injected into something that it really didn't have anything to do with.. and it appears you want to post that a lot.. so I will get you an extra one in as well..

    what Ion said checks out. 1% = 1ilvl

    I hope it helps out in the quest to post it as much as possible m8!

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    So I’m definitely the absolute worst in math, but... is he saying someone 20 ilvls higher should do 20% more damage, but if there is such gap, it’s skill issue?
    No. He is saying that for each 1 ilvl of the same gear, power increases by 1% so someone 20 ilvl higher is 1.01^20 more powerful. The extra is skill. If you're sitting here now at 206 and you're comparing yourself to someone 226. It's definetly skill. No doubt. In pvp they also have a lot more stam as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #164
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    The point is it was injected into something that it really didn't have anything to do with.. and it appears you want to post that a lot.. so I will get you an extra one in as well..

    what Ion said checks out. 1% = 1ilvl

    I hope it helps out in the quest to post it as much as possible m8!
    I mean, you have no shortage of spam either with your 13k posts. Congrats in 2 more posts btw.


    So yes 1 ilvl = 1%
    Skill matters a lot

    Not sure what's Ion bashing on that one is. There are genuine things to criticize him on, but not this.

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    So vanilla-MoP were not RPGs, because you had to do dungeons/raid or PvP to progress?
    I think that asking for raid level loot without doing any raids (or similar difficult content) is a huge ask. You could argue that getting to maximum possible item level (200) was too easy this time around, hence the lack of character progression. But nobody seriously quit because of that. That's incredibly unbelievable.
    During those iterations there wasn't a definite stop to your progress iirc. Maybe it was too easy thats why it's so noticeable and a gripe for many that I've seen.

    But this stems from Legion/BFA maybe spoiling us a bit in that regard.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I mean, I'm not terribly sure how that shits on my point then.

    My point is, what Ion said checks out. 1% = 1ilvl, which is really simulated truth and that if you observe far more than that gap - it's a skill issue.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Yeah, I couldn't help but shake my head at Preach on that one. No, ilvl 226 characters aren't doing "several times the damage" of 200. Not unless "200ilvl" is without legendary, soulbinds and weakest covenant with lvl1 renown... and even then he'd be wrong. If anything, this tier had the lowest increase in character power since several patches. Current "borrowed powers" are much weaker than essences/corruptions/azerite with scaling raid bonuses - and that's on top of lowering gear scaling from 15 to 13ilvl.

    Perhaps he's remembering week one HC, which was the toughest launch tier in several expansions (let's not forget that players on his levels were trying to delay crafting legendaries, so that's another power loss) and then comparing it to mythic farm kills - at that point we might be close to having actual 100% dps difference. Except it's way more than 20ilvl, on top of secondary powers, boss nerfs and having more practice. So yeah, exactly what Ion said. Rest of his answers might have been cringeworthy at times, but not this one.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2021-04-27 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    During those iterations there wasn't a definite stop to your progress iirc. Maybe it was too easy thats why it's so noticeable and a gripe for many that I've seen.

    But this stems from Legion/BFA maybe spoiling us a bit in that regard.
    There was a definite stop to your progress, it was getting BiS at the maximum ilvl available (which is way less feasible nowadays).

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I mean, you have no shortage of spam either with your 13k posts. Congrats in 2 more posts btw.


    So yes 1 ilvl = 1%
    Skill matters a lot

    Not sure what's Ion bashing on that one is. There are genuine things to criticize him on, but not this.
    I guess you are taking this personally. I will remove myself from conversating with ya until you move on.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    This is a idiotic suggestion. I just got into another discussion with someone else earlier about reducing the iLvL of covenant gear. Like WTF are you and that other guy smoking to give suggestions about reducing iLvL gear. As if this shitty expansion isn't hard enough to gear a toon with.
    It's really really easy to gear a toon. Just do 1 mythic plus a week. Guaranteed loot. 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  10. #170
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    There was a definite stop to your progress, it was getting BiS at the maximum ilvl available (which is way less feasible nowadays).
    That was completely fine, back then. Now it feels weird to me after Legion and BFA.

    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    There isn't a dead stop at 200. You can do Torghast to work towards a 235. Torghast is super casual. You can do m 4s. That is super casual. That's only 1 a week. Very casual content that progressively increases your power level.
    M+ is not casual imo, maybe in difficulty (at lower levels) but hell my entire guild avoids it like the plague because its just not fun nor are the pugs you're often stuck with.

    And I like dungeons just not continuously for months. But views simply differ there.
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2021-04-27 at 11:10 PM.
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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    so if ilvl is 1:1% power, 20ilvls is 20% increased power, and that that isn't some how a big gap....w....t.....f is he smoking
    Learn some maths. It isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    That was completely fine, back then. Now it feels weird to me after Legion and BFA.
    It's fine if you want to consider yourself "done" with a character progression. I personally have no issues realizing that my characters won't be perfectly geared or "completed", but only geared at 90-95% of their optimum.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-04-27 at 11:11 PM.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    It's because they get angry when faced with the truth. Being told that they are unskilled hurts . It's a fact, the guy with 20 ilvls on you is better than you at the game.
    Can you blame them though? They change how classes and specs play every expansion if not every patch but provide no info to the affected on what they intend the playstyle to be nor allow any way to track the numbers within a set amount of time without seeking out 3rd party sites and addons. Gear is so scarce right now that players are happy with whatever they can even get, even if it's not optimal stats. Then they see someone link their dps in lfr compared to theirs and see double the damage with only 20 ilvls difference. It's bound to be a shitshow and it's no surprise they're losing players when this is the response from blizz and other players - gitgud. Itemization has always been wonky, often leaving little to no options when you're gearing up anyway, then when on the precipice to push for harder content and coordinated group play they're slapped with this toxicity instead of a guiding hand to what their stat prio and optimal rotation should be.
    e: If they want players to keep playing instead of returning whenever, if at all, then they need to fix this or players will just explore the new scenary and be gone til the next patch or expansion - to see that and go back and clear what they couldn't when it was current - only to be back in another year for a month of gameplay and repeat the cycle.
    Last edited by Tiwack; 2021-04-27 at 11:15 PM.
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  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It's simply the reality even beyond the obvious part where mythic raiders are overwhelmingly more skilled than their normal counterparts, freak accidents aside.
    You sound like someone who thinks they're better than they are based on your gear level.
    You, the master of skill, were doing 43% less damage with 14 ilvl difference. So how are we, us inferior skill-less peons, supposed to do just 20% less than you given a -20 ilvl handicap when you yourself didn't do 20% (but 43%!) less with just 14 ilvls lower? Sorry, your logs disagree that it's your skill level.

    If your argument is experience rather than skill, you should probably use that argument. Otherwise, you learned how to play in 14 ilvls.




    That being said, I think some scaling is an outlier - my ilvl203 destro lock sims 4700 dps and my 202 rogue 4900; but my ilvl200 druid sims 3400. . My ilvl201 Shamans sims 3400. With an ilvl220 boost, she sims 6143....

    My ilvl211 mage sims 5816... as arcane... It was definitely closer to 4200 at ilvl200. That's a big jump for 11 ilvls. I won't even go into a Priest heal hitting for 8000 at ilvl220 and 5000 at ilvl200.


    Now, these are all characters using a mix of pvp/random vaults/primarily covenant gear, and NOT bis raid gear. So that probably has a lot to do with why they scale better (druid, for example, is loaded LOADED with Versatility in the covenant gear).

    This is all based on SIMS - not my play, not your play. Sims.
    However, your actual play shows you more than 20% worse than you should've been in a raid. Skill, hah.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I will say this though. That if skill is the all powerful deciding factor like most people that really play this game even decently well know.. then worrying about peoples gearing situation isn't such a big deal. I mean if you got 226 and they got 220 and you are still dunking on them everytime down the floor it probably doesn't matter if they get 220 pretty easily.
    I get an easy 220 each week for my alts in less than 3 hours of gametime a week. I'd say it's pretty easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  16. #176
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    It's fine if you want to consider yourself "done" with a character progression. I personally have no issues realizing that my characters won't be perfectly geared, but only geared at 95% of their optimum.
    I think with removal of WF/TF, the whole "shopping list" of BIS is completely clear and attainable. Like my character legit only needs (chuckle, dat 0.3% DPS per piece) 2 pieces from M.Dena.

    At that point - there is simply nothing in WoW 9.0.5 anymore that can be acquired and would actually be upgrade. If I'd want to stretch it - there would be one item, that is also around 0.3% and would require luck. But at that point, I just don't care anymore, really.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    I really want to empathize with this man but he makes it so hard. Give the players what they want for gods sake
    Give the players what they want lead to the world buff fiasco and mage boosting meta in classic. It is not so simple, and by changing a thing, you piss of others. I am not saying that WoW is perfect. Just that having an "idea" to fix an issue is pretty far away from implementing that fix.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I get an easy 220 each week for my alts in less than 3 hours of gametime a week. I'd say it's pretty easy.
    I don't have a problem with it either. Helps a ton that I got an alt raid I can join and have KSM. I wonder if those things were not quickly and easily available for me that if that would be the case. See it isn't about me getting much of anything. I will outpace most gearing options. It is more about a larger part of the playerbase.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I think with removal of WF/TF, the whole "shopping list" of BIS is completely clear and attainable. Like my character legit only needs (chuckle, dat 0.3% DPS per piece) 2 pieces from M.Dena.

    At that point - there is simply nothing in WoW 9.0.5 anymore that can be acquired and would actually be upgrade. If I'd want to stretch it - there would be one item, that is also around 0.3% and would require luck. But at that point, I just don't care anymore, really.
    It's more attainable than with WF/TF, but some specs have M+ trinkets in their bis list (like DoS trinkets for tanks or dps) and the chances of getting a 226 one are pretty slim. It's of course nitpicking because the difference between a 220 trinket boosted by valor points and a 226 one is pretty negligible.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-04-27 at 11:19 PM.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Do you want the truth or do you just want an echo chamber?
    If you have to ask a question like that, it's probably just an echo chamber. I'd think that some of the posters on this site would have figured out by now that they aren't going to get an echo chamber, or at least not a pure one, just because they exist and post some dumb thing on the forum. They'd be better off if they just typed "I agree with myself," "I know right?" and then proceeded to copy/paste it a hundred times in a Word document.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
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