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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Honestly, i would find the factions FAR more interesting if one WAS "pure" evil, and one was "good". I loved playing Sith in SWTOR and picking all darkside options - it was awesome! finally getting to play the "bad guys!" but they had to ruin it in the "meta" story by desperately trying to show BOTH sides as "flawed" and using ambition and conquest as "evil" things about the pubs.

    Would anyone be against the Horde being flat-out "evil" and the alliance being "good"? if so why?
    I feel like people ever since before Wrath have wanted playable dark-side factions like Scourge and maybe even the Burning Legion. Hell, people have gone on about recently Light vs Void expansions in recent years so maybe there's a case for that kind of split of factions in the future too.

    I'm one for the faction conflict, as story-wise and mechanically it can create conflict and purpose - things to do, things to be invested in. But, if people are feeling done or fatigued at least temporarily with the Horde vs Alliance conflict, maybe the conflict could turn to Azeroth vs Evil conflict, without having it just be pure PvE, but also be more meaningful in terms of there actually being a bad or evil faction that you can actually join, play as, and quest as to further the goals of those factions - be they Scourge, or Legion, Void, or otherwise.

    I think there is a subsection of the Horde player-base though, like Tauren players, or Orcs who came in liking the nobility of characters like Thrall or even Cata Garrosh where the Orcs were honorable. The Horde was meant to be a faction just struggling to survive - they weren't meant to be evil, you were meant to sympathize with them a little bit because while they were rough on the exterior they had nobility in the heart... where it counts, that sort of deal. If the Horde was suddenly just pure evil, it kind of undermines a lot of what justified the Horde's existence until this point as being a sympathetic party.

    People can also enjoy being an evil side in the story, but with the Horde I think there's different expectations there compared to the Scourge and Legion. For the Scourge and Legion, people expect to have these darker stories where you are the bad guy and doing things rarely if ever honorably - which may make those moments special when they do happen. By contrast, the Horde and Alliance fighting when they both have nobility can be seen as kind of nonsensical when they both have capacity for good. But, largely, if the Scourge or Legion or Void or whatever evil faction it is doesn't really, then the expectation there is different. The culture of the faction would be different. Instead of tenants of nobility and honor, instead tenants of vices and violence would be more upheld. The Old Horde valued things like strength and electing leaders through might, but the modern Horde doesn't really obey this. As, even though Sylvanas had all the power among the Horde - even with her strength to maintain leadership and command, she couldn't hold the mantle of Warchief. But, in the Old Horde, this is exactly how it would have worked before. It's kind of a shame, but in a way Sylvanas being a darker Warchief could have been a direction the Horde could have gone down if only the other cultures of the Horde respected the mantra of strength first. But because the Horde is built on notions of nobility and honor as well, these values create a paradox where not all tribes of races in the Horde value the same things that Orcs might have historically.

    One potential way a faction v faction setup of good vs evil could work is if the raid setups are all neutral threats, that way good and evil decided factions have equal reason to fight the neutral threats. But I think at that point, eventually the mutual aiding of each other just results in another Horde and Alliance situation where eventually it just makes sense for them to work together to stop all these other neutral threats that constantly threaten both sides - even if they didn't have the same worlds or realms or whatever, eventually it becomes an issue especially with power creep of universal threat, potentially. But that's an issue for much later I suppose. Fishes can still get bigger and bigger for a long time before planet busters become galaxy busters and so on.

    As far as good vs evil can go in WoW, there is room for it to work, and certainly evil Horde vs Alliance could even expand to include more factions than just Horde and Alliance, to create more variety of stories so that Horde and Alliance conflict can still potentially be possible without throwing it away potentially forever. That's probably the one thing I don't like the idea of a good Alliance and evil Horde setup, is that those kinds of conflicts end up becoming civil war like, and at that point it becomes more an internal struggle. But, while those conflicts are interesting, they already happen on a racial level within various factions as they are (Grimtotem, Loyalists, Defias, Shadow Council, Pirates, Feltotem, Manari Eredar, Leper Gnomes, Nightmare/Flame/Wardens/Highborne, etc. etc. etc.). New racial conflicts can always be created for the races, or even between the races inwardly, to create internal strife so even if one of those styles gets boring on a racial level eventually other routes can also be taken. And hell, there are even racial conflicts cross Horde and Alliance specifically that remain interesting and compelling that haven't been abolished completely even now and are still being worked through (like the events of the Fourth War).

    I think the faction conflict is ultimately good for the conflict storytelling the game has going forward. And even if the faction conflict evolved to be different sets of factions or changed to be between differing capitals/cultures, there's still a lot of theming conflict to go through that has yet to be resolved. I think if HvA goes away entirely or becomes purely an internal struggle it kind of removes the permanence and tangibility of the struggle in the world -- and without that, it can seem less real when it does get used effectively. For example, if in a future world revamp there wasn't any HvA conflict to me it would seem unrealistic compared to how much bad blood remains between even normal citizens and the other faction. Those hatreds keep getting reinforced by conflicts, and with events like the Fourth War I would personally find it not very believable if everyone unanimously just decided not to fight. It would be a very up-hill battle trying to combat that kind of suspension of disbelief. It works situationally when the stakes are very high, like world-ending threats, but when the stakes are normal and the people have free will to do their own crimes of passion and hatred, I think that's where the illusion of the peace starts to break.

    Especially as more characters carried forward into the future, ones that used to really have a ton of drive in the faction conflict, if all of these characters all have to sit on the sidelines and hold their arms, when the enemy is potentially right in front of them and maybe pushing the limits of peace more and more, those are the kinds of situations where it can start to feel like characters would on a large scale would be being reigned in to do what they're told and that at that level it starts to be unenforceable, no matter how strong a Warchief or High King is as they can't be omnipresent. The closest we probably had to that kind of leader was probably Sylvanas or Varian, who maybe did have the most reach of any previous leader. But at that point, the ruling by fear sets in which sets into motion the kinds of events that can get leaders like that set up for rebellion, or targets for assassination.

  2. #142
    No. Blizzard has Alliance bias. Especially with Golden on the writing team.

  3. #143
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
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    I think they used to, not so much anymore.
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  4. #144
    Banned sam86's Avatar
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    yeah i mean they fucked alliance capital turned it to weekly raid and their high king to loot piniata, not to mention when horde lost lands in cata to actually balance same number of zones by alliance and horde, the horde child base qq so high that blizz reversed that decision, also horde beat alliance at their capital twice
    oh wait that's alliance who did all that to horde, nvm
    blizz is human biased is more accurate, neither alliance nor horde, alliance exist to support the amazing humans, nelfs are over 15k years old to be highschool cheerleaders for humans, the human male is so alpha that even belfs fall for them

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