I really miss Warforge and Titanforge gear

[erifwodahs]

WF / TF was the absolute worst thing in the world.

There's nothing wrong with being able to "complete" a game for a period of time before the patch. Probably 10% of people did this. In any case it would only last a few months before there was new content. WF/TF Made having a complete character impossible.

Why would you even want WF/TF Anyway? People saying it gives you a chance to get better gear but everybody else has that same chance. Relatively speaking you're the same power level compared to everyone else. It was the most pointless system ever.

how many people do you think have all the gear? Sire Denathrius/SLG drops 233 + weapon and off-hand. It is less likely to complete your gear now than it was with TF. I'm not even full 226 now besides having played since launch and only time I did not have 226 choice was first m+ week.

[Razion]

you could get a piece right at the start of a season that you couldn't replace for the rest of the season... how is that good?

This is how things work without WF/TF - the day you're working on Mythic, gear you acquire from Mythic is way more locked in than if there was WF/TF. Once you fill your BiS of your non-forged Mythic set, and that's it you're done. Nothing else to go for. WF/TF gives you an opportunity to upgrade where previously you would have already finished. It gives you a reason to keep raiding for example beyond just initial progression and initial key Mythic drops. It also allows players who are stuck on a certain boss a way to up their gear even further so they can continue to progress and get over a wall. It can also make drops you normally wouldn't consider better, as gear that is WF/TF all the way up could potentially be better than something with ideal stats that has a much lower total stat budget - more of the loot table gets used this way, instead of the same piece maybe being a useless drop all the time because it would be too weak otherwise.

It's not like it's all roses - some people don't want to keep raiding beyond progression, but for those who do want an excuse to keep raiding and would like some incentive it does give them some power to go after. Maybe the whole solution is just to disable Warforging/Titanforging on gear at or equivalent to Mythic raid level gear, and just have it happen on gear up to and below Heroic level raid gear. This way people progressing casually can still benefit from WF/TF, and people who are pushing at the high end don't feel obligated to farm forever on Mythic just to get more ilv.

An additional thing to make WF/TF less impactful while still having some benefit, is to reduce the ilv gain from 6 or 15 down to 3ilv. Part of an issue with WF/TF is that ilv could quickly get out of hand, but with the ilv of WF/TF reduced to be even finer it wouldn't be as bad there either.

[jsrfuture]

no more wf/tf from m+ is the best thing to happend in age, I wouldnt care if wf/tf came back to world content like world quest or mission table as long as it never come back to m+. Highest farmable ilvl being lower then heroic raiding is awesome. The grind on past xpac was just horrible. It's probably the main reason, with vault now giving loot for raid, I subbed again.

[msdos]

They removed WF/TF essentially because the playerbase has no self control or they use self control as an excuse. "I feel compelled to keep going if it exists, therefore it is bad". Everything about retail WoW is laced heavily with addiction and addict language. Like how people excuse everything away with, "oh, people wanna be competitive in WoW, try hards wanna be competitive" Honestly, just the people addicted to the game want to be competitive, no one else cares because you're not actually competing for anything.
People will be addicted no matter what change you make and the try hards will still do every single extra thing possible that was never intended, all Blizzard has to do is take advantage of it and they do, by creating less and less content.

You're starting to see the same thing happen with other games, Path of Exile, where the game is balanced around the people who play 16 hours a day, each day, because it's their job.
It's a slippery slope then because your game is now made for people who can play 16 hours a day, anyone who can't falls through a crack somewhere and the playerbase blames them somehow.

It's too bad they can't find anything to replace WF/TF since it's as basic as a gear upgrade system can be. Which just goes to show how mental the playerbase is they can't handle a simple thing.

[Cæli]

same
I wish the would add them at least on BoE items like legion and bfa (corruption was like wf)

[sam86]

i don't, and i question who miss it in first place, do u have by chance stockholm syndrome?
wf/tf literally killed raiding for me, i remember i counted chance i get BiS gear for my pally in first raid tier in Legion and it was something like 3 years or 5 years average chance to get the best gear from raiding, again that in FUCKING years not weeks, and Legion u had a lot of slots that don't proc (tier sets, artifact, legos etc)
so no, i prefer that if an item drop, it drops, no wf, no tf, of course blizz artificially extended it by reducing drop rate but even so still WAY better than fucking titanforging

The problem is content has to be balanced around ppl having a higher ilvl. Dont want to balance around ilvl 200 if ppl are gonna be closer to 210. Then after you get a drop and its 200, it's like cool...I already have the 200, 3x now. Need it to warforge or roll a socket

wit how mobs in world scale with gear, it made getting better gear have way weaker impact in wow, another big wtf thing they did since Legion (seems Legion was really wrath 2.0, really loved, but introduced a LOT Of horrible mechanics)
It used by last raid u right click mobs specially in first zones, now with scale they die from 3 hits instead of 5, forget judge click a mob, they all scale to ur gear
what a bullshit idea to make ur progress feels weaker

you could get a piece right at the start of a season that you couldn't replace for the rest of the season... how is that good?

how is that bad!? u want to continue farm gear non stop!?

- - - Updated - - -

They removed WF/TF essentially because the playerbase has no self control or they use self control as an excuse. "I feel compelled to keep going if it exists, therefore it is bad"

wrong i didn't feel that, it made me flat out give up on raiding since it was meaningless to need years to get ur best gear on average

[sam86]

what... you have to continue farming non stop with tf in the game... now you can obtain bis... was almost impossible with tf...

so u agree with me that TF is one of worst additions to wow and glad it got removed ?

[Kehego]

TF/WF was bad because people who played wow lack common sense and critical thinking, needed to chase the dragon past the point where it isn't enjoyable.

also 1ilv 1%throughput like ion said existed during the tf/wf era, 20 itemlevels on 1 piece is usually <1% dps anyway.

but who cares about math when feels are way superior.

- - - Updated - - -

i don't, and i question who miss it in first place, do u have by chance stockholm syndrome?
wf/tf literally killed raiding for me, i remember i counted chance i get BiS gear for my pally in first raid tier in Legion and it was something like 3 years or 5 years average chance to get the best gear from raiding, again that in FUCKING years not weeks, and Legion u had a lot of slots that don't proc (tier sets, artifact, legos etc)
so no, i prefer that if an item drop, it drops, no wf, no tf, of course blizz artificially extended it by reducing drop rate but even so still WAY better than fucking titanforging

wit how mobs in world scale with gear, it made getting better gear have way weaker impact in wow, another big wtf thing they did since Legion (seems Legion was really wrath 2.0, really loved, but introduced a LOT Of horrible mechanics)
It used by last raid u right click mobs specially in first zones, now with scale they die from 3 hits instead of 5, forget judge click a mob, they all scale to ur gear
what a bullshit idea to make ur progress feels weaker

how is that bad!? u want to continue farm gear non stop!?

- - - Updated - - -


wrong i didn't feel that, it made me flat out give up on raiding since it was meaningless to need years to get ur best gear on average

bis literally only existed because gear before wotlk was tuned horribly.

not like you can hit your simmed dps anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

They removed WF/TF essentially because the playerbase has no self control or they use self control as an excuse. "I feel compelled to keep going if it exists, therefore it is bad". Everything about retail WoW is laced heavily with addiction and addict language. Like how people excuse everything away with, "oh, people wanna be competitive in WoW, try hards wanna be competitive" Honestly, just the people addicted to the game want to be competitive, no one else cares because you're not actually competing for anything.
People will be addicted no matter what change you make and the try hards will still do every single extra thing possible that was never intended, all Blizzard has to do is take advantage of it and they do, by creating less and less content.

You're starting to see the same thing happen with other games, Path of Exile, where the game is balanced around the people who play 16 hours a day, each day, because it's their job.
It's a slippery slope then because your game is now made for people who can play 16 hours a day, anyone who can't falls through a crack somewhere and the playerbase blames them somehow.

It's too bad they can't find anything to replace WF/TF since it's as basic as a gear upgrade system can be. Which just goes to show how mental the playerbase is they can't handle a simple thing.

most of the people who complain about wow are addicts in denial.

Like, if a video game makes you that upset, you have problems.

[kranur]

Because the rng within the rng part was simply retarded. In order to deck out your character, not only you had to be lucky to get the items you needed, you needed to be lucky on top of that for them to wf/tf.

As far normal/heroic gear tf-ing all the way to mythic level being ok because of perseverence, that's just makes no sense.

[MoFalcon]

it all got scrapped because "elite" players were getting butthurt that "casual" players might get a piece of gear as good as theirs...

How dare LUCK have a place in a GAME.....FOR SHAME BLIZZARD!!!

[Nnyco]

you could get a piece right at the start of a season that you couldn't replace for the rest of the season... how is that good?

Because its 1 out of 16 slots and a really low chance to get it.

[Freedom]

Even as a casual in Legion I hated TF gear. Getting 850 boots for clicking owls and killing harpies just made it feel disingenuous to me, like I didn't deserve that silly RNG reward. "Oh hooray brave adventurer, you have saved the world with that one insipid World Quest! Here, have something better than what you got from content that actually required you to pay a little bit of attention and replace your Mythic 0 boots with a World Quest piece!"

[Kehego]

Even as a casual in Legion I hated TF gear. Getting 850 boots for clicking owls and killing harpies just made it feel disingenuous to me, like I didn't deserve that silly RNG reward. "Oh hooray brave adventurer, you have saved the world with that one insipid World Quest! Here, have something better than what you got from content that actually required you to pay a little bit of attention and replace your Mythic 0 boots with a World Quest piece!"

Mythic 0

Mythic 0

lmao mythic zero, mandem having heart palpitations off bare garbage content rewards.

[Freedom]

lmao mythic zero, mandem having heart palpitations off bare garbage content rewards.

Hey, I never said that I was a world first raider, and I did technically say "a little bit of attention". Not a lot, a little. I know M0 isn't difficult. And I saw that I wasn't going to like Legion for many other, different reasons than WF/TF so I left early on in the expansion. But if anything, the fact that it was Mythic 0 just reinforces that even a filthy casual like I was at the time wasn't on board with WF/TF, despite some noisy people claiming that "Only raiders dislike WF/TF! All casuals love WF/TF, and Blizz removed it because they hate casuals!"

[Revamp Man]

My big problem with it was the ilvl loot trade lock in BfA

Also it’s responsible for things like raider io due to it inflating the players ilvl and it sucked away feelings of being rewarded by giving gear higher than what you would find in game and that led to Jimmy lfr being led into content he wasn’t prepared for simply because the game told him his ilvl was all he needed

[Holdodlig]

you could get a piece right at the start of a season that you couldn't replace for the rest of the season... how is that good?

Which is still happening with M+ gear chest loots.

[Jonnusthegreat]

TF was a good system, but it should definitely have caps. Getting BIS from non-mythic raiding is not a system I enjoy.

[DazManianDevil]

Unpopular opinion: Warforging and Titanforging could work in a world with Valor points up to a cap.
"Hey, you got lucky and titan forged +15 ilvl? You saved yourself a lot of Valor there Timmy!"

[Ange]

WF/TF gear was fine and you had more active players doing all kind of content.

Regular players got close to max ilvl just as it happens now, but currently the min-max is just doing quick 1-10 keys / week and nothing else, so its only a very small part of the game really active and thats clearly worse as before.

The argumentation from the hardcore mythic raiders against WF/TF was the ENDLESS GRIND AND MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PLAYTIME.
WF/TF is gone, the gap to M+ is bigger with the devaluation of M+ gearing, PVP will be nerfed next content patch and what are mythic raiders doing after basicly every other player type was punished? Yes they prep now more chars since they have more time available because all they do is the ENDLESS GRIND AND MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PLAYTIME.

Killing one of the best solutions for gearprogression that worked for every type of player, just because of a small lying hardcore part of the community that will play massive amounts of time in this game NO MATTER WHAT is just tragic.

[Marxman]

Titanforging is the worst thing to ever happen to loot in this game. Not having any control over your BiS, and being rewarded based on random chance rather than actual accomplishments was horrible. Good riddance.