View Poll Results: Is Anduin evil now?

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  • Yes

    18 10.98%
  • No

    114 69.51%
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    32 19.51%
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  1. #61
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    To anyone claiming "Anduin is evil now", here's a fact for you all:

    No, Anduin is NOT evil.

    He is being mind-controlled. A character being controlled by an external entity, seemingly with a complete lack of agency on their actions and words (as we could see when the Jailer sent Anduin to attack the Archon), cannot be called considered evil. In this case, Anduin is little more than a weapon, a tool wielded by the Jailer, and is no more evil than a bat that was used to cave someone's skull in.
    And since we have a fight where we strip the armor off the boss, Anduins fight will be the same, but with 'I'm too sexy...' playing as ambiance in the background.
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  2. #62
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    I miss the days when Metzen was still around... We got to see Thrall in action everyday instead of this wimp Anduin who is an absolute disgrace to the Alliance. I hope they kill him off for good.
    Thrall was and is a pussy. The only decent Warchief they've had was Garrosh and he was a genocidal nut. Replace the orcs with fairies. It's time.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Thrall was and is a pussy. The only decent Warchief they've had was Garrosh and he was a genocidal nut. Replace the orcs with fairies. It's time.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    To anyone claiming "Anduin is evil now", here's a fact for you all:

    No, Anduin is NOT evil.

    He is being mind-controlled. A character being controlled by an external entity, seemingly with a complete lack of agency on their actions and words (as we could see when the Jailer sent Anduin to attack the Archon), cannot be called considered evil. In this case, Anduin is little more than a weapon, a tool wielded by the Jailer, and is no more evil than a bat that was used to cave someone's skull in.
    it is interesting to see the differnce in agency between arthas and anduin.

    i don't think anduin is being kept on a tighter leash than arthas.

    arthas was probably just a lot more willing to go along while anduin is probably just doing the absolute minimum he is forced to.

  5. #65
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Anduin is walking around with Zovaal's hand elbow deep up his ass. Ain't much he do about anything but be that bald bastard's flesh glove.

  6. #66
    No, Anduin isn't, but Turalyon is. He and Alleria are two sadistic sociopaths who now run the Alliance. I am sure they will refuse to give the throne back to Anduin.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Don't be fooled, they're going to redeem him this expansion. Can't waste two of their poster boys and gurls in just one expansion.
    Sadly this is the most likely outcome. There is no way that an Alliance racial leader (current or former) will ever be killed, least of all a Human one. Not as long as Danuser is in charge - inb4 Varian, who was killed precisely in order to give the spotlight to the Golden Boi.

    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    I miss the days when Metzen was still around... We got to see Thrall in action everyday instead of this wimp Anduin who is an absolute disgrace to the Alliance. I hope they kill him off for good.
    Thrall was OK in WC3, but he proved to be a real wimp during his tenure as warchief. He couldn't/didn't want to fight the Alliance, which had just declared war on him, so he went on a sabatic year while turning into a run-of-the-mill Mary Sue (especially during Cata) in the meantime. Oh, and he left Garrosh, out of all people, to fix the mess he had made - you know, the same Garrosh who had admitted that he was unfit for the position of warchief.

    To me, he became almost as annoying as Anduin or Sylvanas these days, but he keeps on returning even if his arc was effectively over during WoD.
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    So is Anduin evil now or a bad guy and if so who’s next as leader of the Alliance or humans?
    He's gonno be some matured Death+Light hybrid hero that is mentally and emotionally exhausted about the "cycle of conflict" with Sylvanas as his trusty sidekick that stops Turalyon and the Naaru from destroying Azeroth

  9. #69
    He will die killing the Jailer, like Ironman

  10. #70
    It doesn't matter.
    He is doing some stuff in some other dimension that will be irrelevant in two years (killing some dead spirits or something).
    Denizens of Azeroth wont give two shits about his ordeal in heck knows where.
    He will chill in his throne like nothing ever happened.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by onesBronson View Post
    Does being "forced" to serve evil against your will consider you as being bad, even if you were good to begin with? Would that also count for every being under the influence of old gods if they were good before being driven to madness?
    IF they were good first, yes.

    We can mournfully put someone down. We don't have to have a raging hateboner for every villain. We've done so many times, after all - See General Nazgrim as a major Horde-side example. He wasn't even controlled, he just had differing ideals and we ended up at odds.

    But if they weren't good FIRST it's difficult to get anyone to care that they're evil now beyond "this character is evil and I hate them." Worse if we never knew them when they were good (See: The Jailer. His backstory is basically nonexistant since Blizzard wants to drip feed it while also making him the star of the expansion...)
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-07-22 at 04:42 PM.

  12. #72
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    it is interesting to see the differnce in agency between arthas and anduin.

    i don't think anduin is being kept on a tighter leash than arthas.

    arthas was probably just a lot more willing to go along while anduin is probably just doing the absolute minimum he is forced to.
    We clearly see the Jailer having absolute, total control of Anduin in the cinematic where he attacks the Archon, even down to speaking through him. Anduin really feels like an extension of the Jailer at this point, with sometimes being allowed to see what he is being forced to do. For what reason, though, I can only speculate, probably to help break his mind.

    While with Arthas, while he was indeed corrupted, it seems the character still had agency, as the one speaking to us was indeed Arthas, when he taunted us back during the leveling experience in Wrath, inside the Halls of Reflection, Icecrown Citadel, etc.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    it is interesting to see the differnce in agency between arthas and anduin.

    i don't think anduin is being kept on a tighter leash than arthas.

    arthas was probably just a lot more willing to go along while anduin is probably just doing the absolute minimum he is forced to.
    That's rather significantly missing the main difference. Arthas was still Arthas, even if he was misled and corrupted. Anduin is just a passenger in his own body, having no agency whatsoever. The person you see walking around is Zovaal, Anduin is just stuck in the same body, unable to act.

    So no, it wasn't simply willingness. This is an entirely different mode of control, and what Anduin wants is completely irrelevant, as he can't act.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    We clearly see the Jailer having absolute, total control of Anduin in the cinematic where he attacks the Archon, even down to speaking through him. Anduin really feels like an extension of the Jailer at this point, with sometimes being allowed to see what he is being forced to do. For what reason, though, I can only speculate, probably to help break his mind.

    While with Arthas, while he was indeed corrupted, it seems the character still had agency, as the one speaking to us was indeed Arthas, when he taunted us back during the leveling experience in Wrath, inside the Halls of Reflection, Icecrown Citadel, etc.
    that level of control probably takes a lot of micromanagement on the jailers part he doesn't usually want to bother with.

    but no doubt he also had less control over arthas simply due to the fact that he was in the living world, so a more willing subject was more important there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's rather significantly missing the main difference. Arthas was still Arthas, even if he was misled and corrupted. Anduin is just a passenger in his own body, having no agency whatsoever. The person you see walking around is Zovaal, Anduin is just stuck in the same body, unable to act.

    So no, it wasn't simply willingness. This is an entirely different mode of control, and what Anduin wants is completely irrelevant, as he can't act.
    so if anduin 100% agreed with the jailer and voluntarily joined him, he would act the exact same?

    the method of control seems the same in both cases, a mourneblade.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-07-22 at 05:15 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    He's being controlled. How is this not obvious?
    Turalyon will probably remain in charge until Anduin is uncontrolled.
    If that's never, Turalyon remains in charge. If Anduin is freed, he's freed.
    Is the player character canonically stuck in the shadowlands right now? What's even going on in Azeroth? I feel like Turalyon being the King of the Alliance, the scourge running free, and the Horde having no real leadership is a pretty big deal to just ignore. Final Fantasy would have had at least a cinematic following the important characters or a quest line to have you go back to Azeroth and check stuff out and you to relay some of the things you saw there.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-07-22 at 05:16 PM.

  16. #76
    Anduin does not have control of his body.

    He is not in control of his actions. What he is going through would be terrifying to anyone.

    He himself has not changed.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Is the player character canonically stuck in the shadowlands right now? What's even going on in Azeroth? I feel like Turalyon being the King of the Alliance, the scourge running free, and the Horde having no real leadership is a pretty big deal to just ignore. Final Fantasy would have had at least a cinematic following the important characters or a quest line to have you go back to Azeroth and check stuff out and you to relay some of the things you saw there.
    What? No.

    We literally make a portal to the Shadowlands, and we have characters (like Taelia and Calia) come to Oribos.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    No, Anduin isn't, but Turalyon is. He and Alleria are two sadistic sociopaths who now run the Alliance. I am sure they will refuse to give the throne back to Anduin.
    Don't be ridiculous. They were not sadistic, they had a mission and it was a war where the horde commited big atrocities and many were killed. Alliance characters have a right to be angry too.
    They are loyal to the Wrynn family too.

    Stop trying to force stories that don't make sense. This whole Sylvanas arc is shitty enough. We don't need more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    What? No.

    We literally make a portal to the Shadowlands, and we have characters (like Taelia and Calia) come to Oribos.

    They don't say anything about the situation in Azeroth.

  19. #79
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    that level of control probably takes a lot of micromanagement on the jailers part he doesn't usually want to bother with.
    I imagine that someone who has been plotting their comeback in secret for so long would not leave matters to chance and not control their puppets better.

    but no doubt he also had less control over arthas simply due to the fact that he was in the living world, so a more willing subject was more important there.
    "No doubt"? Sorry, but there is doubt. Where is your evidence for that? At best, you have something highly circumstantial.

    so if anduin 100% agreed with the jailer and voluntarily joined him, he would act the exact same?
    I think Anduin would be more eloquent, like Sylvanas, if the guy "100% agreed with the Jailer and voluntarily joined him"

    the method of control seems the same in both cases, a mourneblade.
    There is also the armor. The armor is an important piece, as well.
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    so if anduin 100% agreed with the jailer and voluntarily joined him, he would act the exact same?

    the method of control seems the same in both cases, a mourneblade.
    Did you miss the part where Anduin has no control whatsoever over what is happening, while Arthas was still controlling his own body?

    The Mourneblade is the means, not the method. Arthas still had full control over his body. Anduin has no control whatsoever.

    And no, he probably wouldn't act 100% the same, even had he joined voluntarily. Zovaal behaves differently from Anduin.

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