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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    This beggs the question. What pantheon is Elune a part of? She is not one of the Titans and not one of the Eternal Ones. So if not life or death, what? If Ardenweald is connected to the Emerald Dream, maybe there is a dream Pantheon.

  2. #162
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    It's lame that they knocked down Elune to measly eternal ones power level instead of an actual god. It also means that since her sister has a physical form then Elune must too and got fucked by a giant deer instead of Elune creating Cenarius using her and Malorne's essences. I dont think they really thought this through......
    I mean, there's already fan-art of this, so I imagine some of the fans don't mind.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Well, we know Elune "abandoned" the WQ at one point.

    Maybe on her way out she claimed some of the First One's power in some form or another, hence why she has ties to so many forces.
    My thoughts as well. I think Elune started as a part of Pantheon of Death, with her own realm of Kortia, a sister forest to Ardenweald, but found a way to ascend to something more and left Shadowlands. With her departure, Winter Queen felt abandoned by her sister, thus being reluctant to help "her pet" at first.

    Now what we know is that her powers are of Light, possibly Void as well (as reflected in some of Night Warrior's powers) and Life. Starting as a being of Death would mean she has powers in this source of power too.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    So Elune is part of the "pantheon" of either life or light since she's the sister of someone such as the Winter Queen
    Velen had already mentioned the similarities with a Naaru so...
    Maybe she’s an Eternal One that went rogue, or she’s apart of Life.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Tiny kink there: None of this actually explains anything about Elune other than her relationships. And you're looking straight at a pair of adopted mother/daughter, so adopted siblings wouldn't be to far out there. There's clearly a concept of familial relationsships without blood ties in the 'verse.
    It puts Elune in an explicable tier and capable of having familial or interpersonal relationships. Given how she's been part of the franchise for 20 years now precisely as an inexplicable force and the setting's true goddess bringing her down to that level both grounds what she can feasibly do and also diminishes her unique bond with the night elves in so far as they're only one of many such cultures.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Well, we know Elune "abandoned" the WQ at one point.

    Maybe on her way out she claimed some of the First One's power in some form or another, hence why she has ties to so many forces.
    I think it's more that we'll find out ALL of the Pantheons of all cosmic forces are in some way related to one another.

    Ex.: Why does a Pantheon of Death include someone tied to Life? Death and Life are opposite forces on the cosmic scale. We also know that Sargeras (formerly of Order) fell high on the heirarchy of Chaos (opposite), though if he was part of a Pantheon, we were not made aware. Then we have the Naaru, the beings who begin life as beings of Light, and as they approach their time of rebirth, fall to Void - Again, playing in opposites.

    Then if we compare the Titan Pantheon powers to the First Ones: The ONLY one who shares any sort of traits is the Winter Queen with Eonar - Both with powers of Life/Nature

    It's possible that Life itself is seen as necessary for each of these pantheons to exist - Order requires life to maintain order, and death requires life as without life there is no death. We haven't seen a Chaos equivalent of Life, nor do I think it would require it, but that may imply that a being of Void Life exists, or of Light Life. The Void wants to infest everything, which requires something to infest, and the Light - We aren't entirely sure what the Light's end goal is, but it has something to do with wanting people to follow it.

    Given Elune's ties to "Light" and "Nature" - Maybe Elune is the being of Light Life? Would explain the "sister" relationship between the Winter Queen and herself, both beings of Pantheons associated with the Life element.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-04-30 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  7. #167
    Does anyone seriouslly think they have any real plans for this that can be thought out? Her being the same race as the pantheon of death kinda just confirms that ALL lore will be pulled out of their ass at a moments notice. Unless you really think they had a death pantheon planned out in WC3.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Tiny kink there: None of this actually explains anything about Elune other than her relationships. And you're looking straight at a pair of adopted mother/daughter, so adopted siblings wouldn't be to far out there. There's clearly a concept of familial relationsships without blood ties in the 'verse.
    Using a term like Sister/Brother (which all the pantheons we've seen do when refering to eachother) does at least imply they see eachother as equals or bonded, the Eternal Ones refer to the First Ones without using those terms (since they ordered the cosmos and the Pantheons and seem to be a step above the Pantheons), The Winter Queen calling Elune "sister" does suggest she's on a similar power level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    It's possible that Life itself is seen as necessary for each of these pantheons to exist - Order requires life to maintain order, and death requires life as without life there is no death. We haven't seen a Chaos equivalent of Life, nor do I think it would require it, but that may imply that a being of Void Life exists, or of Light Life. The Void wants to infest everything, which requires something to infest, and the Light - We aren't entirely sure what the Light's end goal is, but it has something to do with wanting people to follow it. And given Elune's ties to "Light" and "Nature" - Maybe Elune is the being of Light Life?
    Could be part of the First Ones "ordering" of the cosmos, while the forces are opposite they may not nessessarily have to be against eachother, the Eternal Ones (aside from the jailor) only seem interested in maintaining the afterlife (unlike the void lords who want to consume reality) and in Ardenwealds case the realms entire purpose is to serve as a way for Wild Gods (avatars of life) to be reborn.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-04-30 at 01:47 PM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    If Ardenweald is connected to the Emerald Dream, maybe there is a dream Pantheon.
    Can't wait for the Nap Pantheon after we've dealt with Dream Pantheon.

    There's a pantheon for everything these days!

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Does anyone seriouslly think they have any real plans for this that can be thought out? Her being the same race as the pantheon of death kinda just confirms that ALL lore will be pulled out of their ass at a moments notice. Unless you really think they had a death pantheon planned out in WC3.
    I don't think they have that thought from the W3 and I don't think it's wrong that they haven't thought about it there.

    What if it shows that they have no plans is basically the entire history of the night war. Which seems to switch between patch and patch. And change 100%.

  11. #171
    So, Are the Void Lords/Light Lords higher deities than The First Ones? Or the First Ones created Light and Void?

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It puts Elune in an explicable tier and capable of having familial or interpersonal relationships. Given how she's been part of the franchise for 20 years now precisely as an inexplicable force and the setting's true goddess bringing her down to that level both grounds what she can feasibly do and also diminishes her unique bond with the night elves in so far as they're only one of many such cultures.
    This was always going to happen, or else Night Elves would be the only important race moving forward as we approach Elune singularity.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by olddog View Post
    So, Are the Void Lords/Light Lords higher deities than The First Ones? Or the First Ones created Light and Void?
    From what is hinted at:

    The Titans believe Light and Void made everything, or at the very least all of Reality. While the Brokers think the First Ones supposedly made everything. We also know that the Titans, Elune, the Eternal Ones, etc are apparently the level below the First Ones. So, who knows. I would assume that goes with the Light Lords and the Void Lords aswell, as they're also the Pantheon's of their respective cosmic power.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    This was always going to happen, or else Night Elves would be the only important race moving forward as we approach Elune singularity.
    The mistake in my point of view is giving Elune so much "power".
    Even if we forget about the Kaldorei. Cenarius is his son and Yesara his pet. If Elune is the "cosmic good" the Horde becomes evil by confronting her.

    Not to mention that with so much power she still feels quite useless as a goddess. Compared with for example Broswandi.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The mistake in my point of view is giving Elune so much "power".
    Even if we forget about the Kaldorei. Cenarius is his son and Yesara his pet. If Elune is the "cosmic good" the Horde becomes evil by confronting her.

    Not to mention that with so much power she still feels quite useless as a goddess. Compared with for example Broswandi.
    Well, this reveal APPARENTLY depowers her, even though I don't think that's the case. But when you see how many people are upset that she isn't the cosmic god you see the issue.

    A lot of people wanted her to be the biggest greatest goddess but if that was the case then yeah, Horde bad, Night Elves best, etc. And I know a lot of people would enjoy that but Blizz clearly doesn't want to go that route.

    Horde wouldn't even HAVE an Elune race aside from tentatively Nightborne and Tauren, who don't even like the moon that much. Meanwhile Alliance has two that are integrally tied to Elune. She can't be the center of the lore or the game becomes World of Alliancecraft even harder than it already is.
    Last edited by Nagawithlegs; 2021-04-30 at 02:12 PM.

  16. #176
    Here is my assumption:

    The First Ones are akin to God from the bible. Meaning, they are the Watchmakers of all existence, they're the prime architects of everything we've seen, etc. They made the framework and the cosmic influences (AKA the Cosmic Powers) we see in WoW.

    Afterwards, from those powers, the Realms of the Cosmic Forces were made, such as the Shadowlands, the Nether, etc. The First Ones then likely set up the first Cosmic Pantheons such as the Light Lords, the Void Lords, etc. And from there, the First Ones imbued Light and Shadow's powers and rivaling natures together to form Reality. From there, the first Titans would be born into Reality, Elune (An Eternal One, or a being of Life) would go rogue and help with influencing forces such as the Titans and the Light (Hence the Prime Naaru), the Void Lords would start to send shards of their power into reality (Mini Void Lords like the Legion mobs and dudes such as Dimensius) as well as corruption Avatar's (The Old Gods) to potentially corrupt a baby World-Soul due to the Titan's massively Ordered willpower, etc etc.

    Oh, and from the Cosmos' beginnings, the Elements were likely made by the First Ones, or the mixes of these Cosmic Influences in order to help stabilize Creation's true nature even more (Such as being able to produce sound, etc), hence why we have Cosmic Elementals such as Murmur, ya know?

    So, yeah. That's my stance on the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Well, this reveal APPARENTLY depowers her, even though I don't think that's the case. But when you see how many people are upset that she isn't the cosmic god you see the issue.

    A lot of people wanted her to be the biggest greatest goddess but if that was the case then yeah, Horde bad, Night Elves best, etc. And I know a lot of people would enjoy that but Blizz clearly doesn't want to go that route.

    Horde wouldn't even HAVE an Elune race aside from tentatively Nightborne and Tauren, who don't even like the moon that much. Meanwhile Alliance has two that are integrally tied to Elune. She can't be the center of the lore or the game becomes World of Alliancecraft even harder than it already is.
    It's also funny, especially considering the Eternal Ones, Titans, etc are like the top Cosmic God Pantheons in WoW below the First Ones, but the moment the sister of the WQ is Elune and therefore actually gives the Eternal Ones Titan-like feats, people get pissed off by it.

    Elune can literally just be explained as an Eternal, or a Lord of Life that went rogue and decided to aid other Pantheon's and powers across existence. That's it. She can be just as powerful and just as important as the Winter Queen, while also having her own identity. Besides, we already kinda knew Eonar, the WQ, and Elune had connections to begin with.

    Think of the WQ and Elune as Sisters (The Winter Queen representing Nature's rest and eternal slumber/rebirth, while Elune represents Life's awakening, Summer/Spring, the true power of Light within Life (Hence why she seems to be not just the Moon goddess, but also kinda relating to the Sun and the Dream + beyond aswell, etc). Could be that her Life powers aided in the creation of the Prime Naaru, since beings of Life aren't all that shy away from the Light, and it could also be that she was the Life Pantheon being that maybe helped Eonar with her powers? Eonar named her sanctuary "Elunaria", so it's possible they were once friends, or are at least cousins, ya know?

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    Also find it funny how people think us going to the Moon (Likely not as a fuckin Leveling continent, however, but maybe in 9.2 or a Light (And Shadow?) Expansion) is going to be a "rip off" of FFXIV or some shit, when Elune being the Moon Goddess was a factor long before FFXIV was even made up.

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    Besides, we still went to Cosmic Realms and into other worlds in the Great Dark. There's absolutely no need to compare the two. One game already is used to Cosmic battles and travel, while the other isn't. So

    And I don't include other FFXIV games, either. Just XIV. Not gonna derail it here, but if y'all wanna debate me on power, we can in DM's.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    This was always going to happen, or else Night Elves would be the only important race moving forward as we approach Elune singularity.
    The Night Elves are already heavily involved, so that's moot. The Night Fae campaign deals with Tyrande and the Teldrassil souls to near exclusivity. Elune being tightly tied with them is a positive, not a negative. On top of that, Elune being uniquely tied to Azeroth as well as being of the highest tier of deity means we as players have more direct investment with it as an established element. While the night elf thing was already demystified by virtue of the other worlds' Night Warriors measuring her removes a major mystery with little actual weight in the reveal. It's an off-hand line in quest text.

    In terms of racial involvement shamans and races who rotate around ancestor worship already rolled snake eyes in terms of relevance given there's no ancestor lands and Draka is in the diet-Scourge afterlife. Not to mention a race of literal walking dead also have zero role, so having at least one race be cardinally important is if anything a step up.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-04-30 at 02:30 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Well, we know Elune "abandoned" the WQ at one point.

    Maybe on her way out she claimed some of the First One's power in some form or another, hence why she has ties to so many forces.
    You can house influence with other powers without actually needing to obtain the power of the Watchmakers of Warcraft itself. She's likely a Pantheon member of either Life or Death that went rogue. Simple.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    As a Pillar of Creation, the Tear of Elune always stood out as being the only one not named after one of the Titans. Leaving some to speculate that it was actually left by Eonar, but because the Elves worship Elune they incorrectly assumed it came from Elune.
    Also worth noting, when you aid Eonar during the Legion raid (the name escapes me at the moment), I believe the name of the planet you visit is "Elunaria". Pretty similar to Elune, right?

    I think Eonar was SUPPOSED to be "Elune", as well as "the Earth-mother", symbolizing that both the Tauren and Night Elves understood aspects of Eonar, but not the full scope.

    However, Legion wound up sort of blowing its "Titan" load a bit early, and as a result, the Pantheon felt like a bunch of losers instead of the literal creators of the universe.

    So, the retconned the Titans to be one "Pantheon" of many, and I think in doing so, decided that they would do something different with Elune. Especially since Elune-fans are hell-bent on the idea of "Elune is some super-special being who ought to be way more powerful than anything else!".

    More than likely, Blizzard is still trying to figure out what to do with "Elune". It sounds like she's going to be part of the "Pantheon of Life", as the Titans are seemingly "the Pantheon of Order" and the Covenant leaders are "the Pantheon of Undeath".

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    Being empowered by kleia or pelagos or theotar or emeni really is not that impressive power wise and the legendaries are powerful but less so than the artifacts or the heart of azeroth (also dunno if we wear 1 or a full set, likely 1 but maybe not) so Denathrius is pretty underwhelming since we didn't have any direct power up during the fight.
    We don't know how powerful our Legendaries are, so no? Also, having enough Anima within our covenant and our conduits + soul binds being heavily linked together and amping us up can be pretty exceptional, if you ask me. Hell, even the Soul-Bind conduit system provides like 3-4 paths that are akin to the Artifacts in terms of amping up your power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Also worth noting, when you aid Eonar during the Legion raid (the name escapes me at the moment), I believe the name of the planet you visit is "Elunaria". Pretty similar to Elune, right?

    I think Eonar was SUPPOSED to be "Elune", as well as "the Earth-mother", symbolizing that both the Tauren and Night Elves understood aspects of Eonar, but not the full scope.

    However, Legion wound up sort of blowing its "Titan" load a bit early, and as a result, the Pantheon felt like a bunch of losers instead of the literal creators of the universe.

    So, the retconned the Titans to be one "Pantheon" of many, and I think in doing so, decided that they would do something different with Elune. Especially since Elune-fans are hell-bent on the idea of "Elune is some super-special being who ought to be way more powerful than anything else!".

    More than likely, Blizzard is still trying to figure out what to do with "Elune". It sounds like she's going to be part of the "Pantheon of Life", as the Titans are seemingly "the Pantheon of Order" and the Covenant leaders are "the Pantheon of Undeath".
    The Earth Mother is Azeroth. It's likely Eonar and Elune are cousins or good friends, and Elune helped showcase Eonar the beauty of Nature, Life, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    what if... its just figuratively saying, and she is not her real sister at all?

    Anyway, this does mean "elune" is actually not a "all powerful god" people theorize? and what about Velen saying she looked like a naaru? did they forget that or just abandon the bit?
    "What about Velen saying she looked like a Naaru" You do realize she still apparently made the Prime Naaru, right? Or at least that was theorized? So of course Velen was going to make that assumption lmao. Also, she was never really "this all powerful God". Using that logic, Sargeras was practically omnipotent.

    Elune is just a Pantheon chick goin' rogue to aid other powers and preserve Life across Reality (Hence why she's a goddess of so many races). She's about as much of a God as Sargeras is to his followers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I don't like this.

    I preferred Elune as a mystical goddess that the Night Elves worshipped, something unknowable and mysterious.
    And I preferred it when we never saw the Titans or fought one (Idc if it was a weakened one, it was still a Baby Titan AMPED UP BY SARGERAS).

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    But, not everyone wants to stay in a little bubble of repeated and tired storylines anymore. So, that's why SL exists.

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