Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[geco]

Teldrassil is a tree it doesn't have a soul like the green dragons.

Did we ever see the Light heal the nightmare?

no were to assume the green one is from the one of the tamable spirits beast or other forest spirts like in the emerald nightmare raid and has nothing to do with the priest of elune as other then tyranda there not known for all using owls.

IF Color cannot be trusted. So that you can trust.
You don't care about names.
You don't care about the tone of the magic.
You don't care that elune is almost always linked to nature.

I think your main problem is your looking at abunch of game mechanics and saying they apply to lore when they don't and in some cases go against the lore comply like with the use of arcane.

Your problem is that you are only paying attention to the lore of Kadgar to define Elune. Since Kadgar wasn't even sure what he was saying.

And ignoring all the lore of the Kaldorei related to Elune.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Did we ever see the Light heal the nightmare?

yes Tyranda does it but isn't able to do a comply cleanse like Elune.

IF Color cannot be trusted. So that you can trust.
You don't care about names.
You don't care about the tone of the magic.
You don't care that elune is almost always linked to nature.

This is the color of the owl
this is the tone of the magic and Elune is never linked to nature in any tangible way.

but ya name's are nonsense alot of the time

Your problem is that you are only paying attention to the lore of Kadgar to define Elune. Since Kadgar wasn't even sure what he was saying.

And ignoring all the lore of the Kaldorei related to Elune.

I have not Mentioned kadgar once.

[SNES-1990]

Glad Elune isn't a First One.

Honestly, I hope we only ever get scraps of information about the First Ones and never see them in person. WoW is lacking in mystery. Speculation about First Ones and ambiguous lore is good.

[geco]

yes Tyranda does it but isn't able to do a comply cleanse like Elune.

I mean only Druids and Elune. All with the theme of "life".

....

Yes and in other arts it is green.
Elune's magic is Silver. It is not yellow like the Light.
And when it's shadow magic it's black with little stars. In the new version of W3 the avatar of revenge has that color.

There is no reason to connect Elune's pale magic with the yellow magic of light. More that is called "light of elune". But since Names don't count.

I have Mentioned kadgar once.

The only thing in favor of 100% light is that Kadgar healed a Naru.
The rest is as Light as anything else under your theories.

[Magical Mudcrab]

This level of bending is not good for health

As I've told others, you guys got me. If Blizzard insists on giving multiple items the exact same name and then people make threads expecting everyone to simultaneously understand that these are not the same thing but are in fact different and distinct items, excuse the possible confusion. That said, I cannot wait until we have to reforge the Ashbringer. But not that Ashbringer, that one isn't relevant to the plot. We're reforging the Ashbringer that's from Maldraxxus, it's totally new and they just like the name. It's a super secret item that was never revealed until now and is going to be made from the puss that Alexandros Mograine excretes from his eye sockets.

[Le Conceptuel]

As I've told others, you guys got me. If Blizzard insists on giving multiple items the exact same name and then people make threads expecting everyone to simultaneously understand that these are not the same thing but are in fact different and distinct items, excuse the possible confusion. That said, I cannot wait until we have to reforge the Ashbringer. But not that Ashbringer, that one isn't relevant to the plot. We're reforging the Ashbringer that's from Maldraxxus, it's totally new and they just like the name. It's a super secret item that was never revealed until now and is going to be made from the puss that Alexandros Mograine excretes from his eye sockets.

Because, indeed, a tear from Elune could not possibly also be called a "Tear of Elune".

[Minikin]

As I've told others, you guys got me. If Blizzard insists on giving multiple items the exact same name and then people make threads expecting everyone to simultaneously understand that these are not the same thing but are in fact different and distinct items, excuse the possible confusion. That said, I cannot wait until we have to reforge the Ashbringer. But not that Ashbringer, that one isn't relevant to the plot. We're reforging the Ashbringer that's from Maldraxxus, it's totally new and they just like the name. It's a super secret item that was never revealed until now and is going to be made from the puss that Alexandros Mograine excretes from his eye sockets.

That's fair. But you did kinda flub up it real good so some ragging is necessary

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean only Druids and Elune. All with the theme of "life".

Elune doesn't have a theme of life.

Yes and in other arts it is green.
Elune's magic is Silver. It is not yellow like the Light.
And when it's shadow magic it's black with little stars. In the new version of W3 the avatar of revenge has that color.

There is no reason to connect Elune's pale magic with the yellow magic of light. More that is called "light of elune". But since Names don't count.

No In no official art is the owl ever green they are always blue or silver.
The light doesn't only come in yellow The draenei use yellow purple and blue and the blood knights used red. The night elf's use silver. To think it's only yellow is to ignore the none human users of the light.

The only thing in favor of 100% light is that Kadgar healed a Naru.
The rest is as Light as anything else under your theories.

and that the priest of Elune use the light, and that the Priest of Elune are capable of being paladins, and that other light users are able to recognize the spriest as using the light, and that elune uses does thing's we have only seen light based beings do. but if we ignore all actual lore then sure its just khadgar.

[Super Dickmann]

To be quite honest I'm not sure why Elune got to be so special. She was in WC3, but in WC3 the Light was also a nebulous entity without beings like the Naaru to embody it, the Void didn't even exist while we only had a hint of the Old Gods in the form of a tentacled miniboss, and Sargeras was just some evil dude we know nothing of rather than a planet sized Satan who cleaves worlds in half.

I'm not saying this development will be good (at best it'll just be different) but it was kind of inevitable that, in a context where the mysteries of the universe are being peeled off one by one to give us new lands to explore, raid bosses to kill and phat lewt to collect, that one kinda deity who deals with one race out of two dozens now would stop being special at some point or another.

The Old Gods already had a similar moment when we learned that they were mountain-sized cancers flung at random by dudes that are functionally the same but outside reality so as to allow further expansions. The Light meanwhile is depersonalized by default - the naaru are just emanations of a power that represents certain traits and virtues and has power but doesn't have an associated deity. For now, anyway, give it a few years and we'll have Lightlords to loot.

That Elune has a relatively small back of the woods and that she is much more vague and connected to one race and top of having miracles attributed to her that go outside the paradigm of the other powers along with the fact that the Old Gods didn't exist in WC3 whereas the naaru were 15 years ago now are reasons why her case is different. After 20 years, any reveal would be underwhelming compared to just letting the issue lie. It's not even that I dislike the Night Warrior fare by itself in Shadowlands, it's pretty servicable, Tyrande's neutering aside, but the whole reason we're in a spot where we have to make an ersatz cosmology with the First Ones as the Titans 2.0 and the Jailer as Sarg 2.0 is because we systematically massacred the entire higher tier before. Leaving some things inexplicable or out of our reach or prone to speculation improves them. Going back to the Old Gods, how many people found them more intimidating or interesting after Chronicle than before?

[Therougetitan]

Elune doesn't have a theme of life.

Her theme is more light-based, but to say she it isn't one of her themes is erroneous

- She created the wildkin are tied in with areas of nature
- She is the mother of Cenarius who taught nature magic and druidism to races like the Tauren and Night elves
- The Tears of Elune were kept in Val'sharah, a place close to life and the emerald dream
- Eonar, a titan themed on life was found on a planet called Elunaria which is obviously named after Elune
- Now we know she is sisters with the Winter Queen who is also themed after life

[username993720]

Hell, isn't the Drust shit literally Deathly Druidic magics? Why can't the WQ's sister (Who is also of Nature (Tho, in its waning side) and is also shown to have some light-esc abilities) not be one of the prime sources of the Life side of Druidism? Especially since she and Malorne's child is literally the Lord of the Forests and taught Malfurion himself.

Actually, you've got a point, since the trees in Korthia have this bluish/blackish magical tint on them:


Maybe, she spawned them.
Or, maybe, they draw upon her powers.

[Drynix]

The image is rather small so me and my amazing eyes read "Take my sister's rear" and I was so confused for a moment.

[BrintoSFJ]

You know I think it's something that goes with Elune's personality.
And that she really got bored with the Kaldorei or something.
And before she got bored with the trolls.

That is how this kind of entity are. Imagine being all powerful and living for eternity. Eternity! That's hack of a lot of time! How do you spend so much time? You create distraction for yourself.

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I am thinking quite outside the box. I don't see how an ancestor can call a descendant a "sister". Those are conflicting words lmao. I get it's in the realm of Possibility, but I'm of the idea that she's a part of a Life Pantheon.

You are still thinking through mortal perception. To entities like them, there is no such words as "Ancestors" or "Descendants".

As for her being part of Life Pantheon, I am pretty sure your are 95% correct on that.

[FelPlague]

is this referring to the tears as in the pillar of creation? if so, i love that we're still using them. if not, still cool. awesome that her sister is elune, maybe we get some actual elune appearances soon which would be SWEET.

yeah they are using these things still which is cool, like BFA we saw the resto shaman artifact, and the tidestone both in nazjatar.

[Engal]

Fine then the book could be wrong :P.

Doubtful, or Blizzard wouldn't have thrown this if it wasn't important. It was one of many hints at Elune true nature. Most of the time, when it's stated in a quest text like this, it is true. Moreover, the inch Kadghar had worked. The Power of Elune opened Light's heart.

I conquer with the scaling difference. But who is to say that the Titans followed the plan of the First Ones. Following the metaphor, what if the First Ones ordered a specific area in a certain way to fit their grand design, but the Titans saw it as chaotic, and decided to reorder it to their liking - and as a result the grand design became flawed?

I think you misunderstand the power scale here.

The first one basically ordered the universe, they shaped it. They -apparently- created and shaped all the forces we know. They shaped Life, they shaped Death, they shaped Order, they shaped Void and Light, ( fel is another matter since it seems to be the garbage part of the universe )

The titans cant shape and change how the plane of life, the plane of Death, the plane of Light, The plane of Fel works, etc. They can only use what is at their disposal and was already there.

The titans can shape and change the shape of continents and planet, or alter the timeline etc, but can't change the rule that are behind those. They can't create a new world soul from scratch, for example. Your logic implies that a Titan could completely rewrite the plane of Order and remake how things were set by the First Ones. They have to follow the rules they set because things have been written to work a specific way.

They can't diverge from those rules.


Do you understand why Zovaal wants to reach an higher goal ? He can rule over the plane of Death but can't change the way it works or it's been constructed, unless he reach something in the Sepulcher, that will help him rewrite the cosmos and how the rules were set ( apparently ). That's the whole reason behind Sylvanas' speech.

On the contrary, Elune can turn a soul into a full constellation, that is a First One-like Power. She can create beings of Light, she can influence Life and do things in the Emerald dream. She can use Arcane power and landed her power and protection to Eonar. She can infuse a Night warrior with void-aligned power.

If she's not a first one, she's close to one. And I'm pretty sure Zovaal's goal is to do something that will ascend him to what is Elune or above, because she already did in the past.

I'll go further by theorizing that Zovaal discovered that the power of the First One was a borrowed power they stole from something , and is a power that can be acquired, and that the First One are a fraud leeching on the power of something else, that is in the Sepulcher.

[Rockefellah]

I've discussed what "upstart goddess" could mean...

And how tf do you have the Wild Gods and the fuckin Old Gods on the same lvl as the Titans? They're way below that? How do you have the Void Lords (The Pantheon of SHADOW) above the Titans? What in the hell?

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The cosmic chart does? :P - the chart also puts old gods on the level of the titans as a pantheon of shadow - but the void lords are higher then that

Stop. Putting. The First Ones. As. Order. Only. Beings!

I don't think I have said First Ones = Order anywhere. Also the sentences with words each with a dot really suggest you are caring to much for this. Take a break, read what others write, then comment and contribute to this lore discussion...

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Do you understand why Zovaal wants to reach an higher goal ? He can rule over the plane of Death but can't change the way it works or it's been constructed, unless he reach something in the Sepulcher, that will help him rewrite the cosmos and how the rules were set ( apparently ). That's the whole reason behind Sylvanas' speech.

On the contrary, Elune can turn a soul into a full constellation, that is a First One-like Power. She can create beings of Light, she can influence Life and do things in the Emerald dream. She can use Arcane power and landed her power and protection to Eonar. She can infuse a Night warrior with void-aligned power.

If she's not a first one, she's close to one. And I'm pretty sure Zovaal's goal is to do something that will ascend him to what is Elune or above, because she already did in the past.

I'll go further by theorizing that Zovaal discovered that the power of the First One was a borrowed power they stole from something , and is a power that can be acquired, and that the First One are a fraud leeching on the power of something else, that is in the Sepulcher.

Does anyone know what Zovaal wants? He has gone to extreme length - especially from a mortal time point of view, but time is different in the shadowlands, but either way he has been working on this for a while. I love the idea you positioning, really curious to see how things develop and see what Blizz has in store for us.

[Radeghost]

So if the Eternal Ones are like Pantheon but to the Realm of Death, that means they are on par with the Titans.

It’s been also brought up that Elune created the Prime Naaru. Naaru lead the Realm of Light. That would basically mean that Realm of Death was responsible for creation of realm of Light.

This doesn’t make any sense.

[huth]

So if the Eternal Ones are like Pantheon but to the Realm of Death, that means they are on par with the Titans.

It’s been also brought up that Elune created the Prime Naaru. Naaru lead the Realm of Light. That would basically mean that Realm of Death was responsible for creation of realm of Light.

This doesn’t make any sense.

Because it is inaccurate. There's no evidence she's part of the Death realm, nor does the Eternal Ones being equivalent in role mean they're equivalent in power.

You're reading a lot of things into this that aren't actually being said.

[TheFirstOnes]

Doubtful, or Blizzard wouldn't have thrown this if it wasn't important. It was one of many hints at Elune true nature. Most of the time, when it's stated in a quest text like this, it is true. Moreover, the inch Kadghar had worked. The Power of Elune opened Light's heart.




I think you misunderstand the power scale here.

The first one basically ordered the universe, they shaped it. They -apparently- created and shaped all the forces we know. They shaped Life, they shaped Death, they shaped Order, they shaped Void and Light, ( fel is another matter since it seems to be the garbage part of the universe )

The titans cant shape and change how the plane of life, the plane of Death, the plane of Light, The plane of Fel works, etc. They can only use what is at their disposal and was already there.

The titans can shape and change the shape of continents and planet, or alter the timeline etc, but can't change the rule that are behind those. They can't create a new world soul from scratch, for example. Your logic implies that a Titan could completely rewrite the plane of Order and remake how things were set by the First Ones. They have to follow the rules they set because things have been written to work a specific way.

They can't diverge from those rules.


Do you understand why Zovaal wants to reach an higher goal ? He can rule over the plane of Death but can't change the way it works or it's been constructed, unless he reach something in the Sepulcher, that will help him rewrite the cosmos and how the rules were set ( apparently ). That's the whole reason behind Sylvanas' speech.

On the contrary, Elune can turn a soul into a full constellation, that is a First One-like Power. She can create beings of Light, she can influence Life and do things in the Emerald dream. She can use Arcane power and landed her power and protection to Eonar. She can infuse a Night warrior with void-aligned power.

If she's not a first one, she's close to one. And I'm pretty sure Zovaal's goal is to do something that will ascend him to what is Elune or above, because she already did in the past.

I'll go further by theorizing that Zovaal discovered that the power of the First One was a borrowed power they stole from something , and is a power that can be acquired, and that the First One are a fraud leeching on the power of something else, that is in the Sepulcher.

Turning something into a constellation is a Titan lvl power. Not a First One power.

Wanna maybe play WoTLK and battle Algalon?

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Because it is inaccurate. There's no evidence she's part of the Death realm, nor does the Eternal Ones being equivalent in role mean they're equivalent in power.

You're reading a lot of things into this that aren't actually being said.

Ion explains they’re analogous with eachother in cosmic power, not just mere role.

As for the other shit, the Realms of Light and Death are not responsible for the creation of one another in anyway shape or form.

Also, it’s more fair to compare Death with Life, as they’re polar opposites, rather than Death and Light, which is what everyone is arguing rn, which is imo the dumbest fucking thing lol

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Her theme is more light-based, but to say she it isn't one of her themes is erroneous

- She created the wildkin are tied in with areas of nature
- She is the mother of Cenarius who taught nature magic and druidism to races like the Tauren and Night elves
- The Tears of Elune were kept in Val'sharah, a place close to life and the emerald dream
- Eonar, a titan themed on life was found on a planet called Elunaria which is obviously named after Elune
- Now we know she is sisters with the Winter Queen who is also themed after life

The wildkin could be the first tangible link she has to nature that any ones brought up if she actually made them ya.

Every thing else is just her being around nature themes people. Cenarius because maloorn was nature based and they had a kid. The tear because her followers are half Druids. Eonar hiding on a plant named after her. All of these though could just point to her having a fondness to nature aligned things because she misses the winter queen and not because she’s nature based her self as we already know the other eternal ones who are also siblings aren’t all nature based.