Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[Zyky]

Elune is the Winter Queen's sister. Sadly I think this confirms she's not a First One. There goes my theory.

There's still a chance she's a First One. We know very little of the First Ones, it's possible that they're not even sisters by actual relation and just sisters in the same sense as Tyrande being called mother by Shandris.

[Super Dickmann]

I'd say their treatment in-game, especially that of N'zoth in 8.3 when he goes full mwahahaha puny mortalsss, did more harm to the Old Gods than any reveal about their origin. Them being tumors mostly dangerous because outright killing them would harm the planet (except when we adventurers do it) has been consistent since Wrath if memory serves. Making them servants in and of itself isn't bad, guys KJ, Gul'dan, Deathwing or Archimonde were servants since their inception after all and fearsome until badly done, with the exception of Gul'dan.

I honestly don't think N'zoth's portrayal (save for the last five minutes I mean Jesus) was that bad, especially given that it's not the first time we've had an Old God deliver that kind of dialogue. Yoggy told us to bow down, had an even more generic voice and threatened people, but he was back when the Old Gods as a whole were more ambiguous and people were willing to cut it more slack. I'd put N'zoth and him on the relatively same tier in terms of how effective they were as villains, with N'zoth having a better route on-screen but Yogg clinching it on backstory and on not being in BFA. N'zoth's problems were magnified by the Old Gods being a checklist item and by him being outright dead for real, whereas Yogg had more grey areas and so could keep more mysticism, making later additions work better.

I have no arguments regarding the second parapgraph tho, and it's my only real lore issue with Shadowlands. Jailer is Lich King but Lich Kingier with a dash of Sargeras, Maldraxxus is Scourge but Scourgier, First Ones are Titans but more Titanic, Brokers are Ethereals but Etherealers, Kyrian are Val'kyr but Val'kyrier, so on and so forth. So much of it seems repackaged, it's why Revendreth is my favorite zone since most of it feels new (aside from the gist of its plot being Suramar 2.0 AKA BEs 3.0) and the developments around the Nathrezim and Denathrius are interesting enough to make the retcons around them broadly acceptable.

The funny thing is, I actually found myself enjoying the zones and characters when I went through them, the only one I think is an entirely a miss is the Jailer because of how thunderously bland he is and how he's tied to the most blatant and pointless retcons. I'll defend the Dreadlord retcon as being an overall good call that brings them closer to their original portrayal and vibe and I even found Maldraxxus growing on me. Maldraxxus is if anything weighed down by having to lug Draka and elements of the pseudo-egyptian Scourge visual design around that exist solely to grab attention. Revendreth is derivative but skates by entirely on execution and presentation so I've got little bad to say about it.

Regarding the Night Warrior, it's been mishandled from Day 1, but if they went this route they should've had her split her powers not between new characters but between the Teldrassil victims and have them be the vehicle for Elune to deal a serious blow vs. the Jailer/Sylvanas so there's actually pay off to the story. Having her fail at every turn except a fight she'd have won anyway against Nathanos, maybe be competitive vs. Sylvanas in a cinematic only to be reverted to a peacenik that she never was in the first place is the absolute poorest way to end this.

[Velshin]

Uhm...

Seems you haven't been paying attention. That's ok. But, essentially, no. She's not of the First Ones. She seems to be more linked with the Eternal Ones, or she's apart of a Life Pantheon? Idk, but she's on the same level as essentially every other Cosmic Pantheon like the Titans, etc.

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Listen...listen...

I never said he was perfect, nor did I really say he was good lmao

I do pay attention thank you I am just speaking my mind I never said it is a fact ok?

I do think she is superior than the titans.

[mingarrubia]

"After all this time... she did not abandon me..."

So the Winter Queen always thought that Elune had abandoned her.

My guess is that at some point Elune vanished from the Shadowlands, leaving her sister behind. The Winter Queen came to believe that Elune had turned her back on her, but as soon as she sees the Tear of Elune she realizes that wasn't the case.

Elune's voice is described as "sorrowful". Maybe something happened to her. Maybe she infused her essence into one of Azeroth's moons to watch over the dormant world soul (could Azeroth be Elune's daughter?). Maybe she ascended into godhood, becoming a First One (Xal'atath calls her "an upstart goddess"). Or maybe she sacrificed herself for whatever reason.

Be that as it may, if Elune is indeed an Eternal One, then it seems that each of the female Eternal Ones is related to one of the fundamental cosmic forces:

Kyrestia: holy/light
Winter Queen: nature/life
Elune: arcane/order

[Le Conceptuel]

I honestly don't think N'zoth's portrayal (save for the last five minutes I mean Jesus) was that bad, especially given that it's not the first time we've had an Old God deliver that kind of dialogue. Yoggy told us to bow down, had an even more generic voice and threatened people, but he was back when the Old Gods as a whole were more ambiguous and people were willing to cut it more slack. I'd put N'zoth and him on the relatively same tier in terms of how effective they were as villains, with N'zoth having a better route on-screen but Yogg clinching it on backstory and on not being in BFA. N'zoth's problems were magnified by the Old Gods being a checklist item and by him being outright dead for real, whereas Yogg had more grey areas and so could keep more mysticism, making later additions work better.



The funny thing is, I actually found myself enjoying the zones and characters when I went through them, the only one I think is an entirely a miss is the Jailer because of how thunderously bland he is and how he's tied to the most blatant and pointless retcons. I'll defend the Dreadlord retcon as being an overall good call that brings them closer to their original portrayal and vibe and I even found Maldraxxus growing on me. Maldraxxus is if anything weighed down by having to lug Draka and elements of the pseudo-egyptian Scourge visual design around that exist solely to grab attention. Revendreth is derivative but skates by entirely on execution and presentation so I've got little bad to say about it.

Regarding the Night Warrior, it's been mishandled from Day 1, but if they went this route they should've had her split her powers not between new characters but between the Teldrassil victims and have them be the vehicle for Elune to deal a serious blow vs. the Jailer/Sylvanas so there's actually pay off to the story. Having her fail at every turn except a fight she'd have won anyway against Nathanos, maybe be competitive vs. Sylvanas in a cinematic only to be reverted to a peacenik that she never was in the first place is the absolute poorest way to end this.

I rather agree. The entire expansion is dramatically weighed down by the Blue Man. The zones, the Dreadlord retcon, and everything else of the sort have serious potential, but Sylvanas and her boss are both very bland characters who have done nothing other than generally weigh down an expansion that could have been far better if Zovaal were a better villain or simply not present.

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"After all this time... she did not abandon me..."

So the Winter Queen always thought that Elune had abandoned her.

My guess is that at some point Elune vanished from the Shadowlands, leaving her sister behind. The Winter Queen came to believe that Elune had turned her back on her, but as soon as she sees the Tear of Elune she realizes that wasn't the case.

Elune's voice is described as "sorrowful". Maybe something happened to her. Maybe she infused her essence into one of Azeroth's moons to watch over the dormant world soul (could Azeroth be Elune's daughter?). Maybe she ascended into godhood, becoming a First One (Xal'atath calls her "an upstart goddess"). Or maybe she sacrificed herself for whatever reason.

Be that as it may, if Elune is indeed an Eternal One, then it seems that each of the female Eternal Ones is related to one of the fundamental cosmic forces:

Kyrestia: holy/light
Winter Queen: nature/life
Elune: arcane/order

Don't forget you could also tie Denathrius to Disorder due to being the mastermind behind the Dreadlords.

[Rockefellah]

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Don't forget you could also tie Denathrius to Disorder due to being the mastermind behind the Dreadlords.[/QUOTE]

Then to complete the list:

Overarching Cosmic Power: Death
Kyrestia: holy/light - Zovaal: Void/Shadow??
Winter Queen: nature/life - Primus: Death/Undead
Elune: arcane/order - Denathrius: Disorder

Though it doesn't work for the Titan Pantheon (despite them being 6 as well!)

[TheFirstOnes]

"After all this time... she did not abandon me..."

So the Winter Queen always thought that Elune had abandoned her.

My guess is that at some point Elune vanished from the Shadowlands, leaving her sister behind. The Winter Queen came to believe that Elune had turned her back on her, but as soon as she sees the Tear of Elune she realizes that wasn't the case.

Elune's voice is described as "sorrowful". Maybe something happened to her. Maybe she infused her essence into one of Azeroth's moons to watch over the dormant world soul (could Azeroth be Elune's daughter?). Maybe she ascended into godhood, becoming a First One (Xal'atath calls her "an upstart goddess"). Or maybe she sacrificed herself for whatever reason.

Be that as it may, if Elune is indeed an Eternal One, then it seems that each of the female Eternal Ones is related to one of the fundamental cosmic forces:

Kyrestia: holy/light
Winter Queen: nature/life
Elune: arcane/order

She's probably sorrowful cause she saw her Sister after so long and is maybe also upset about the Jailer's BS?

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Don't forget you could also tie Denathrius to Disorder due to being the mastermind behind the Dreadlords.

Then to complete the list:

Overarching Cosmic Power: Death
Kyrestia: holy/light - Zovaal: Void/Shadow??
Winter Queen: nature/life - Primus: Death/Undead
Elune: arcane/order - Denathrius: Disorder

Though it doesn't work for the Titan Pantheon (despite them being 6 as well!)[/QUOTE]

The Light has literally no fucking effect over Bastion, what?

[mingarrubia]

There's one other thing. We know for certain that titans have a life cycle of sorts. They're born and they can die. We know that Norgannon cast a spell to launch the Pantheon's souls into the great dark beyond just as their bodies were being destroyed by Sargeras. Maybe the same principles apply to the eternal ones from the Shadowlands.

I'm saying this because the Winter Queen's words could also mean that she knows that Elune's physical form perished a long time ago. Maybe Zovaal was imprisoned in the first place precisely for causing Elune's demise, and the Sepulcher everyone is talking about is her final resting place. Perhaps her soul is stored safely elsewhere. It could even be the case that the soul powering the Arbiter is Elune herself.

[Feanoro]

Way to not understand wtf the First Ones are. Also, even in Old Lore, the Titans weren't really the greatest of Gods. The Universe was supposedly already there by the time the Titans showed, which also fits with the new lore too. The First Ones are supposed to represent the clock/watchmakers of everything. The actual true "deities" of Warcraft.

Until we find the Before Ones, who outrank the First Ones. When that happens, maybe you'll understand the point I was making.

Ok let's not even vaguely imply that Metzen was doing even anything remotely good for lore.

Yeah, he only created it, that jackass! Thank God we have Danuser Cringecaller and Christie Golduin to set things straight! LOL.

I mean my god how many things had he said between Blizzcon and Twitter that were verifiably inaccurate

Fiction. "verifiably inaccurate". OK then.

with my favorite being that he claimed the deaths of Cthun and Yogg caused the Cataclysm DURING the expansion when if you actually quested you are literally told the elemental upheaval is caused by the world pillar being broken by DW's emergence which also had nothing to do with the 2 dying.

Yeah, Blizzard NEVER just abandons plot points and entire patches and raids! (Hint, Cata might not be your best expansion to argue against what I just said.)

[TheFirstOnes]

Until we find the Before Ones, who outrank the First Ones. When that happens, maybe you'll understand the point I was making.

Wouldn't make since, considering the name. Meaning, the First Ones came FIRST! Then Light and Shadow, then everything else.

Unless you want to make deities that came before absolute 0 (Which...are kinda already the First Ones lmao).

[Feanoro]

Wouldn't make since, considering the name. Meaning, the First Ones came FIRST!

How cute, you think consistency and in-setting logic actually apply, when the writing team is on record saying they find such things constraining.

[TheFirstOnes]

How cute, you think consistency and in-setting logic actually apply, when the writing team is on record saying they find such things constraining.

What I find cute is how you thought the Titans were the ultimate power in all of WoW, when that was debatable at most.

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The jailer is also there brother them being sisters doesn’t mean there two sides of a a nature based coin or even that they’d have similar magic alignments.

Chronicles is yes also the word of god from all things the Titans know about, and given that it says they made it the emerald dream has no ties to elune.

You're right...in a way. I am pretty sure the "sister" thing here is more literal than it seems, especially with the Ardenweald and Planes of Life (And Dream) connections.

All things the Titans know about is funny, especially since they said a lot about the Shadowlands, yet...well...

lol

[ohwell]

Until we find the Before Ones, who outrank the First Ones. When that happens, maybe you'll understand the point I was making.

Yeah, he only created it, that jackass! Thank God we have Danuser Cringecaller and Christie Golduin to set things straight! LOL.

Fiction. "verifiably inaccurate". OK then.

Yeah, Blizzard NEVER just abandons plot points and entire patches and raids! (Hint, Cata might not be your best expansion to argue against what I just said.)

That's nice, but he still took a huge dump on his own lore CONSTANTLY by not even knowing half of it and then tweeting and getting in front of Blizzcon spewing nonsense that people claim was canon when it was flat out contradicted by what is literally in the game in current content. Metzen was just as much trash.

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Wouldn't make since, considering the name. Meaning, the First Ones came FIRST! Then Light and Shadow, then everything else.

Unless you want to make deities that came before absolute 0 (Which...are kinda already the First Ones lmao).

I mean the old gods aren't literal gods either. Names can often take a meaning based on ignorance of those who named them.

[Sorshen]

Considering the speculation around Elune for a decade and a half, this is all pretty disappointing. Almost as disappointing of them adding the First One layer. This also kinda contradicts Chronicles I (fuck that Titans PoV noise) in regards to the dragon aspects being empowered by the Pantheon against Odyn's wishes. The 9.1 PTR is kind of annoying from a lore standpoint (Stonewright mixup, whole direction of the Tyrande/Night Warrior arc, etc.)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I wonder how this affects Tauren religion and cosmology, since An'she is said to be Elune's brother.

Oh, who am I kidding; no one on the current WoW creative team remembers An'she or the Sunwalkers, and even if they did they wouldn't do An'she justice.

Finally. Now the eonar weirdos can disappear

I never got the Elune - Eonar connection. It was a theory that came out of nowhere simply because the moon showed up in Eonar's room in Antorus. Prior to that there had never been any overlap between Elune or the Titans in how either were presented or described.

Oh so if Winter’s Queen sister is Elune, the Azeroth’s moon then Shadowlands realm is somehow connected to the cosmos. Interesting.

And possibly Azeroth's sun? Since Elune is tied to the moon, and Elune's brother An'she is associated with the sun.

uuuuugggghhhh, Elune was said to be the only true god that we knew of in the WoW universe, why are they retconning it!

Elune and the Light. But once the Light was retconned from being a "yes really god" from WC3 through MoP into just being another elemental force like Fel or Arcane in WoD, it was only a matter of time before the creative hacks came after Elune and tore her down into just being another mundane super as well.

Because Danuser is jealous of Metzen, systematically ruining everything with bad fanfiction tier writing to supplant it with his own.

Also because no one on the current WoW team has an ounce of faith in their bones.

Warning ultimate theory!

What if Elune is Xel'Naga?

Sylvanas is already Kerrigan 2.0. Blizzard mind as well go all the way and have Sylvanas save the universe from a giant space slug by lasering it.

Sigh... Why? Why couldn't they make Elune into a unique being. Was it really that hard?

Because the writers have no imagination and don't have an ounce of faith in their bones.

Blizzard's writers seem to think that the game can't go on without introducing higher and higher powerlevel guys for us to fight. And since the writers are incapable of creating new things, they decide to look back at the lore Metzen painstakingly crafted, the stuff people are already invested in, and take that and retcon it to suit their narrative, hoping that the fandom's investment in Metzen's stuff will carry over.

Usually the longer a story/setting goes on the less loose plot threads or story details you can leave in without elaboration, Elune as a mysterious goddess was never going to last (really i'm suprised it lasted as long as it did)

Or the writers could, you know, just leave Elune alone and go make up new forces for us to fight? Why not have the player join an expedition to the other side of the world and go on some good 'ole fun adventuring, like we did in Pandaria? No need to have new end of the world threats or even MOAR POWERFUL big bads than the last.

Does anyone seriouslly think they have any real plans for this that can be thought out?

They'd be a fool to think so.

Let's look at the eras of Warcraft lore over the years:

• WC1 lore was throwaway lines made up by the voice actor who was brought in to narrate the game while he was in the recording booth. WC2 lore had a little more effort put in but that was it.

• WC3 through Wrath lore (started with the novel "Of Blood and Honor" and the adventure game that was cancelled) was painstackingly crafted by Metzen.

• Cata through MoP: Metzen is still in charge but religion begins to be downplayed (probably by a mandate from Blizzard) but is still overall consistent with the lore since WC3.

• WoD: Metzen leaves. The new creative team takesover and immediately begins dismantling the Light, retconning it from being a "yes really god" in the setting to being "just another elemental force like Arcane or Fel". The new creative team also goes on a mass retcon spree (not that Metzen didn't retcon stuff but he never did it to this degree). At this point it is clear that the writers are making stuff up as they go along and have no respect for the work laid down by prior writers, and don't respect the intelligence of the fans.

So, Are the Void Lords/Light Lords higher deities than The First Ones? Or the First Ones created Light and Void?

Can't wait for 2 or 3 expansions from now when the next "higher tier" precursor race is introduced. "Who are the precursors who were around before The First Ones?"

Also find it funny how people think us going to the Moon (Likely not as a fuckin Leveling continent, however, but maybe in 9.2 or a Light (And Shadow?) Expansion) is going to be a "rip off" of FFXIV or some shit, when Elune being the Moon Goddess was a factor long before FFXIV was even made up.

Not to derail too much but it's obvious that FFXIV has been living rent free in Blizzard's head. Going by population metrics, FFXIV will soon overtake WoW in subscriber numbers in a couple years or less (likely with the release of the Endwalker expansion). Over the past couple years, Blizzard consistently tries to line up WoW patch cycles with FFXIV patch cycles. Just look at how Blizzard waiting until FFXIV's 5.5 patch date was announced to announce WoW's 9.1 PTR at the same time is no coincidence, trying to keep WoW players from jumping ship by teasing them new WoW stuff to try out (even if it is unfinished). And the Shadowlands expansion was blatantly named such to try to be conflated with the Shadowbringers expansion and get similar search results when people look up ShB.

That depends on whether they make An'she a character at all.
From the little bit we got from him, it's implied he's just an expression of the Light.

Erm, what? An'she in the handful of NPC dialogue, quests, and the Bleeding Sun short story presented him as more of a passive Native American-esque "Great Spirit" watching silently in the sky. IIRC An'she didn't even anything to do with Dezco's kids being taken away; that was the August Celestials. The Light - since the first Warcraft novel by Metzen, "Of Blood and Honor", has been depicted as a Christian God and is shown to be active in events.

Furthermore, the way Dezco’s powers are described in Bleeding Sun have no overlap with the abilities that Paladin’s and Priests draw upon from the Light. It’s clear that Tauren Sunwalkers are NOT Paladins and do not draw upon the Light. They are classified as Paladins for game purposes only, because it’s impractical design an entire class that can only be used by one race for lore purposes when you can just slot that lore class into an existing gameplay class (like how Dark Rangers in lore are their own thing but in gameplay they’re just marksmanship hunters). I wish that Sunwalker Tauren had gotten unique spell effects, but alas.

Also, if An'she really is The Light or a Naaru…

I can see it now.

Velen and Turalyon walk up to Dezco.
Turalyon: "Tauren! Your great spirit and the Christian god expy/angels are actually one and the same!"
Dezco: "uhhhhh, but Anshe is the brother of Elune?"
Turalyon: "Oh. That's great!" walks over to Tyrande "Your Japanese Shinto kami expy is actually the same thing as our Christian God and angels! And the same thing as that Cow-man's native American Great spirit!"
Tyrande: "Uh, but Elune also gave me void powers? And is also a god of death and wrath now? Isn't that like, the complete antithesis of what the Light stood for?"
Turalyon looks at warlocks and shadow priests
Turalyon: "I'm sorry for persecuting you guys for thousands of years. Looks like we were all drawing upon the same power all along! We're all brothers in the Light/Ans'he/Elune/the Void now, right guys?"

Imagine Blizzard saying that. Actually, wait. I can.

I think WoW could use one supreme being. Always hoped Elune was it. But we'll see.

Given how Blizzard dismantled the Light as an actual god after Metzen left, and they've just dismantled Elune, there is no way Blizzard is going to reintroduce another actual god. From now on everyone is going to be a greek-esque super you and kill if your powerlevel is high enough.

now that Betanuser, Goldvanas and their pals butchered old lore completely (Old Gods, Burning Legion, Demons, Sargeras, Azshara, Elune etc), is there anything left to destroy???

An'she, but thankfully it seems that he has been forgotten so at least he can't be ruined. At least we Sunwalkers can have the dignity of our lore not being run over by an 18-wheeler and thrown into a ditch.

nah they kinda did ngl
the first ones dont "slap". they are merely the titans but "biggaaaa and bettaaa" this time. every piece of "new" lore we get is basically something of the old lore, slightly repurposed and worse.

Void Lords = Bigger Old Gods
First Ones = Bigger Titans
Six Cosmic Pantheons = Bigger Titanic Keepers
The Jailer = Bigger Lich king

Nailed it.

There's so much we don't know and frankly I love it. We're pealing back the mysteries one by one

Some thing shouldn't be "uncovered". Some things are perfectly fine - and work best - if left alone.

Honestly, I hope we only ever get scraps of information about the First Ones and never see them in person. WoW is lacking in mystery. Speculation about First Ones and ambiguous lore is good.

With the current WoW team you'll be disappointed. The Metzen days are seven years past.

[TheFirstOnes]

"And the Shadowlands expansion was blatantly named such to try to be conflated with the Shadowbringers expansion and get similar search results when people look up ShB."

The Shadowlands existed before anything relating to Shadowbringers. Idk why you keep comparing FF to WoW, as well. Not like Blizzard gives two shits outside of maybe marketing strats.

Also, WoW's a much more powerful verse anyway.

[Verdugo]

Also, WoW's a much more powerful verse anyway.

Dont know shit about FF but I highly doubt that.

[huth]

I never got the Elune - Eonar connection. It was a theory that came out of nowhere simply because the moon showed up in Eonar's room in Antorus. Prior to that there had never been any overlap between Elune or the Titans in how either were presented or described.

The moon wasn't even a real piece of evidence, just a nearby prop that overlapped with her model when you look from a specific angle. However, the place she was hiding out was in fact called Elunaria.

But that's not the connection being talked about here; this is about which of them has a connection to the Winter Queen, not whether they have one with each other.


Also, your Metzen worship is rather unwarranted. He wasn't really all that much better than the current lore dev heads, he just worked at a time when retcons and inconsistent lore were the norm.

[hllfrmththrsd]

I like it, they are slowly introducing all the pantheons in a very well-paced manner. Now we only know three - Disorder (Sargeras), Order (titans) and Death (eternal ones) + Elune from Light/Life. It just opens so much more to come. Honestly, I used to think that WoW's lore is coming down after Legion with Void Lords being the ultimate villains but now there's so much more - Life, Light, Shadow + dreadlords with their machinations. Oh and the First ones? That's quite a good spin of lore.

[Lady Atia]

I wonder how this affects Tauren religion and cosmology, since An'she is said to be Elune's brother.

Oh, who am I kidding; no one on the current WoW creative team remembers An'she or the Sunwalkers, and even if they did they wouldn't do An'she justice.



I never got the Elune - Eonar connection. It was a theory that came out of nowhere simply because the moon showed up in Eonar's room in Antorus. Prior to that there had never been any overlap between Elune or the Titans in how either were presented or described.



And possibly Azeroth's sun? Since Elune is tied to the moon, and Elune's brother An'she is associated with the sun.



Elune and the Light. But once the Light was retconned from being a "yes really god" from WC3 through MoP into just being another elemental force like Fel or Arcane in WoD, it was only a matter of time before the creative hacks came after Elune and tore her down into just being another mundane super as well.



Also because no one on the current WoW team has an ounce of faith in their bones.



Sylvanas is already Kerrigan 2.0. Blizzard mind as well go all the way and have Sylvanas save the universe from a giant space slug by lasering it.



Because the writers have no imagination and don't have an ounce of faith in their bones.

Blizzard's writers seem to think that the game can't go on without introducing higher and higher powerlevel guys for us to fight. And since the writers are incapable of creating new things, they decide to look back at the lore Metzen painstakingly crafted, the stuff people are already invested in, and take that and retcon it to suit their narrative, hoping that the fandom's investment in Metzen's stuff will carry over.



Or the writers could, you know, just leave Elune alone and go make up new forces for us to fight? Why not have the player join an expedition to the other side of the world and go on some good 'ole fun adventuring, like we did in Pandaria? No need to have new end of the world threats or even MOAR POWERFUL big bads than the last.



They'd be a fool to think so.

Let's look at the eras of Warcraft lore over the years:

• WC1 lore was throwaway lines made up by the voice actor who was brought in to narrate the game while he was in the recording booth. WC2 lore had a little more effort put in but that was it.

• WC3 through Wrath lore (started with the novel "Of Blood and Honor" and the adventure game that was cancelled) was painstackingly crafted by Metzen.

• Cata through MoP: Metzen is still in charge but religion begins to be downplayed (probably by a mandate from Blizzard) but is still overall consistent with the lore since WC3.

• WoD: Metzen leaves. The new creative team takesover and immediately begins dismantling the Light, retconning it from being a "yes really god" in the setting to being "just another elemental force like Arcane or Fel". The new creative team also goes on a mass retcon spree (not that Metzen didn't retcon stuff but he never did it to this degree). At this point it is clear that the writers are making stuff up as they go along and have no respect for the work laid down by prior writers, and don't respect the intelligence of the fans.

Can't wait for 2 or 3 expansions from now when the next "higher tier" precursor race is introduced. "Who are the precursors who were around before The First Ones?"



Not to derail too much but it's obvious that FFXIV has been living rent free in Blizzard's head. Going by population metrics, FFXIV will soon overtake WoW in subscriber numbers in a couple years or less (likely with the release of the Endwalker expansion). Over the past couple years, Blizzard consistently tries to line up WoW patch cycles with FFXIV patch cycles. Just look at how Blizzard waiting until FFXIV's 5.5 patch date was announced to announce WoW's 9.1 PTR at the same time is no coincidence, trying to keep WoW players from jumping ship by teasing them new WoW stuff to try out (even if it is unfinished). And the Shadowlands expansion was blatantly named such to try to be conflated with the Shadowbringers expansion and get similar search results when people look up ShB.



Erm, what? An'she in the handful of NPC dialogue, quests, and the Bleeding Sun short story presented him as more of a passive Native American-esque "Great Spirit" watching silently in the sky. IIRC An'she didn't even anything to do with Dezco's kids being taken away; that was the August Celestials. The Light - since the first Warcraft novel by Metzen, "Of Blood and Honor", has been depicted as a Christian God and is shown to be active in events.

Furthermore, the way Dezco’s powers are described in Bleeding Sun have no overlap with the abilities that Paladin’s and Priests draw upon from the Light. It’s clear that Tauren Sunwalkers are NOT Paladins and do not draw upon the Light. They are classified as Paladins for game purposes only, because it’s impractical design an entire class that can only be used by one race for lore purposes when you can just slot that lore class into an existing gameplay class (like how Dark Rangers in lore are their own thing but in gameplay they’re just marksmanship hunters). I wish that Sunwalker Tauren had gotten unique spell effects, but alas.

Also, if An'she really is The Light or a Naaru…



Imagine Blizzard saying that. Actually, wait. I can.



Given how Blizzard dismantled the Light as an actual god after Metzen left, and they've just dismantled Elune, there is no way Blizzard is going to reintroduce another actual god. From now on everyone is going to be a greek-esque super you and kill if your powerlevel is high enough.



An'she, but thankfully it seems that he has been forgotten so at least he can't be ruined. At least we Sunwalkers can have the dignity of our lore not being run over by an 18-wheeler and thrown into a ditch.




Nailed it.



Some thing shouldn't be "uncovered". Some things are perfectly fine - and work best - if left alone.



With the current WoW team you'll be disappointed. The Metzen days are seven years past.

Holy Moly. i'm glad they toned down on the "religion" thing you liked so much. Keep that crap out of my game.