Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[shoc]

Elune = Eonar is a dumb theory that I never heard before now, and nothing we seen remotely suggests that.

Eonar being something of a Priestess of Elune makes more sense. Given that knowledge of Elune among the other worlds is apparently common, it seems unlikely that Elune would be a mystery to the Titans. Then it makes sense, why Eonar's Pillar of Creation is a Tear of Elune. It would also explain why her Titan-soul was hiding on a planet called Elunaria. Eonar being a Priestess of Elune, or deriving power from Elune is some capacity, seems pretty obvious when you line up the facts.

AND that would mean Elune is ultimately responsible for the ascension of Ysera, or is the source of the power that was granted to her, in a trickle-down god-onomics kind of way, which explains 'my sisters pet'.

[TheFirstOnes]

Do we have anything indicating that Eonar and Elune are different beings?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I think you guys are having this discussion in the last few pages. I was in page 3 when I replied.

We have nothing to prove they’re the same. I’m of the idea that Elune was once an Eternal One that went rogue, or is possibly of the Pantheon of Light (Due to a LOT of her abilities being Holy based + the Fact she made the Prime Naaru, which goes with the idea of “The Naaru and their KEEPERS”, etc).

It’s way too early for us to meet the First Ones.

[Feanoro]

No, I clearly got what you meant, and I clearly debunked it. No strawmanning here, bud.

You debunked it only in your own mind, "bud". I'm talking about Doyle, you're talking Watson, all the while using glorified "you mad bro" tier arguments like accusing me of "wanking" to the Titans.

You think the Titans, Elune, and their lore got ruined cause of Danuser, and I explained to you why it’s not the case.

Nope, you regurgitated the nu-lore, pretended no retcons happened in the process, ignored the very obvious copying Danuser and pals have done, as well as their openly stated disdain for the old lore. You attacked me personally because you have no real arguments.

[TheFirstOnes]

You debunked it only in your own mind, "bud". I'm talking about Doyle, you're talking Watson, all the while using glorified "you mad bro" tier arguments like accusing me of "wanking" to the Titans.

Nope, you regurgitated the nu-lore, pretended no retcons happened in the process, ignored the very obvious copying Danuser and pals have done, as well as their openly stated disdain for the old lore. You attacked me personally because you have no real arguments.

I'd love to actually hear a counter-argument from you, other than "it's shit writing", and making up shit I never did. Yes, Retcons happened, but the purpose of the Titans always the same. Never changed. Nothing changed from that. So I have no idea why you're getting so heated over Danuser and the others expanding upon the Cosmos of WoW, and basically confirming that the Titans aren't the only "divine pantheon" out there.

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"You debunked it only in your own mind, "bud". I'm talking about Doyle, you're talking Watson, all the while using glorified "you mad bro" tier arguments like accusing me of "wanking" to the Titans."

"You mad bro" arguments? Uhh, I would suggest reading what I said once more. Might actually help you a bit in constructing a better counter, bro. Lemme quote what you said verbatim


"Because Danuser is jealous of Metzen, systematically ruining everything with bad fanfiction tier writing to supplant it with his own.

Unfortunately for him, he has no creativity whatsoever. (Remember, the theme of SL is "X but more Xy!" First Ones, Titans but more Titany! Maldraxas, Scourge but more Scourgey! And so on.)

Elune under Metzen was the sole confirmed deity, rarely directly intervening but spectacularly when it happened. Much like how continuity and existing lore is viewed as a constraint on the current "writers", having an actual deity would force them to answer why she doesn't intervene this time."

I debunked this by saying the First Ones aren't at all like the Titans, and I clearly gave reasons as to why. No one is missing the "point" here, and no one is being "unoriginal". And in regards to Maldraxxus, so what? They're giving the Scourge a proper source. Not like that would be a big issue to begin with. I mean, yeah, there were some retcons, but so what? The overall narrative is still the same, but with extra addons to it. Metzen's gone through multiple retcons during WoW also. Yet the narrative remained the same.

Regarding Elune, she can still be considered an actual Deity. It's not like the Titans weren't confirmed to be "non-deities" or some shit. Elune being the "sole deity" also may have to do with her following, since the Titans also don't really share a following (Though, I can debunk this just as much as I can prove it). And if what is hinted at with Elune is true (Such as her being among the main leaders of the Light and the creator of the Prime Naaru during the great ordering of Light and Shadow), then it's possible she can just remain a true deity anyway, since Light and Shadow are the essential forces of existence, or at least Reality...and she would be among those essential leaders.

There are multiple ways you can keep her as a "true deity".

And then you argued some shit about Danuser being unoriginal with ideas, and while you're not 100% wrong on that, there is no reason for him too. He and the other Lore Devs have existing info that can easily use to write in the existence of WoW's confirmed Big Bang, while also adding in "Creator Deities that made everything" into it.

Almost like I showed you a book from Classic that first talked about those 2 implications (Both implications were used btw)...

Oh, and to add salt to the wound, the Titans are called Gods in WoW, specifically by Khadgar (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/In_...t_and_Shadow):

"Dead? The titans are dead?

<Khadgar ponders the news for a minute.>

It explains so much, yet I cannot help but feel an overwhelming sense of sadness. We have been on our own all along.Our gods killed before we were born.

As for the Army of the Light and Illidan, I am at a loss. I have never felt so powerless.

Illidan is dead and the Golden Army fights an endless war in our name from across the cosmos.

I need a moment, <name>. This is too much bad news for an old man to bear."

Still want to act like I'm "missing the point", and that, in your eyes, they "ruined the Titans and Elune"?

Listen, if you want to continue arguing, that's fine by me. But please actually...well...argue. You've shown no evidence proving your statements. I have.

[javierdsv]

Elune is a true goddess, just like the rest of the Shadowlands leaders. Think of gods like "the old gods", that are just material beings somewhere.

Maybe the first ones created them all to take care of the balance of certain (and different) aspects of reality.

[TheFirstOnes]

Elune is a true goddess, just like the rest of the Shadowlands leaders. Think of gods like "the old gods", that are just material beings somewhere.

Maybe the first ones created them all to take care of the balance of certain (and different) aspects of reality.

I mean, considering the First Ones supposedly Architected the entire Framework of the Cosmos and are potentially the top of the line deities of WoW...

Maybe?

[GoKs]

There's one other thing. We know for certain that titans have a life cycle of sorts. They're born and they can die. We know that Norgannon cast a spell to launch the Pantheon's souls into the great dark beyond just as their bodies were being destroyed by Sargeras. Maybe the same principles apply to the eternal ones from the Shadowlands.

I'm saying this because the Winter Queen's words could also mean that she knows that Elune's physical form perished a long time ago. Maybe Zovaal was imprisoned in the first place precisely for causing Elune's demise, and the Sepulcher everyone is talking about is her final resting place. Perhaps her soul is stored safely elsewhere. It could even be the case that the soul powering the Arbiter is Elune herself.

This seems good.

I also think that 1 of 2 things might have happened. (Both was mentioned by other people here already.)
1: Zovaal turned on the Eternal Ones and Elune was one of them to "die" ( I say one since we have no idea how many there are or was) and is now busy recuperating as Azeroths moon...
2: Elune found a way out of the Shadowlands (whether she ascended or just left, I am not sure, but ascended would make more sense), that made the WQ feel abandoned, and opened a gap for Zovaal to to what ever he did to be jailed, since there was less resistance.

I have another theory that might not be liked by many and that is, what if Azeroth is a first one, that went through a life cycle and is now being re born as a titan. We have no indication of how the First Ones came to be and how long it took for them to shape all that they did. Maybe they were titans and after many millennia ascended to a higher level giving them the power to do what they did. After all Azeroth is/or will be the most powerful titan once she is fully grown (I think I read it some where that she would be able to overthrow the voidlords by herself once fully grown).
We know Zovaal wants to get Azeroths power for himself to reshape everything the way he wants, and that adds to my theory that Azeroth might be a first one who has the power and the knowledge to do just that. I believe that Elune is aware of what Azeroth is and is keeping a watchful eye on her and would have intervened if we could not stop Sargeras.

I would also like to think that Korthia was the zone that Elune used to watch over like the WQ is with Ardenweald.

Just my theory, dont flame.

[geco]

Now for theories of Azerroth.
Death and Life are not enemies.
Elune can give both light and shadow at the same time to his priestesses. Therefore Elune has no problem handling light and shadow at the same time. They are not necessarily enemies either.


And if Elune is teaching Azeeroth that this whole war of the elemental forces is stupid.

[TheFirstOnes]

You have a picture of the wow cosmology chart as your photo, I'm pretty sure you know more about the lore than most of the people playing the game, like me lol I'm not being condescending! Wow is also aimed at younger audiences, and every time we get all excited coming up with complicated plots we are always disappointed by what it ends up being. (i.e. Sylvanas' whole story, the tree burning, BfA plot, the conspiracy theory that Calia is Talia's mom and she is the lost child spoken of by the Scarlet Crusade even though they are talking about a boy, etc.)

Tbf here, a lot of the lore feels a bit rushed. Legion was technically 2 expansion plots in 1 (Legion invasion + Argus and Space), and BFA's been 3 expansion plots in 1 (Black Empire, South Seas, and Alliance Vs Horde). SL's been a bit...quick too? But at least, like with Legion, it's focused on 1 conflict, such as the Jailer trying to destroy the balance between Life and Death, etc.

Also, the WoW Cosmology chart is kinda basic. I only have it as my PFP to fit with the idea that this is the Titan's idea of the framework the First Ones created for the WoW Cosmos. Also, I won't lie to you, what you say still seems condescending due to the fact you're flexing of "knowing more lore than most", when it's really nothing to flex about. Nor is it that complicated of lore.

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Now for theories of Azerroth.
Death and Life are not enemies.
Elune can give both light and shadow at the same time to his priestesses. Therefore Elune has no problem handling light and shadow at the same time. They are not necessarily enemies either.


And if Elune is teaching Azeeroth that this whole war of the elemental forces is stupid.

We don't know what Elune truly is. I'd assume she was an Eternal One who went rogue, and decided to join up with the Pantheon of Light when the Cosmos was young. But, that's just my theory.

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This seems good.

I also think that 1 of 2 things might have happened. (Both was mentioned by other people here already.)
1: Zovaal turned on the Eternal Ones and Elune was one of them to "die" ( I say one since we have no idea how many there are or was) and is now busy recuperating as Azeroths moon...
2: Elune found a way out of the Shadowlands (whether she ascended or just left, I am not sure, but ascended would make more sense), that made the WQ feel abandoned, and opened a gap for Zovaal to to what ever he did to be jailed, since there was less resistance.

I have another theory that might not be liked by many and that is, what if Azeroth is a first one, that went through a life cycle and is now being re born as a titan. We have no indication of how the First Ones came to be and how long it took for them to shape all that they did. Maybe they were titans and after many millennia ascended to a higher level giving them the power to do what they did. After all Azeroth is/or will be the most powerful titan once she is fully grown (I think I read it some where that she would be able to overthrow the voidlords by herself once fully grown).
We know Zovaal wants to get Azeroths power for himself to reshape everything the way he wants, and that adds to my theory that Azeroth might be a first one who has the power and the knowledge to do just that. I believe that Elune is aware of what Azeroth is and is keeping a watchful eye on her and would have intervened if we could not stop Sargeras.

I would also like to think that Korthia was the zone that Elune used to watch over like the WQ is with Ardenweald.

Just my theory, dont flame.

I have this 1 theory, yet I feel like a dipshit if I actually think this: What if Zovaal and Elune were like lovers or somethin? Nah, I'm playing lol.

I do agree a bit with those 2 theories of yours tho. Idk about the last part of Theory 2, but still...

[geco]

We don't know what Elune truly is. I'd assume she was an Eternal One who went rogue, and decided to join up with the Pantheon of Light when the Cosmos was young. But, that's just my theory.

Neither theory contradicts the other.

[TheFirstOnes]

Neither theory contradicts the other.

That's cool and all...

But I never argued they did.

[TheFirstOnes]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Stiven_SR...67305310666756

With this voice, it kinda feels like Elune's more of a Dark Holy Pantheon chick, or a Fallen/Rebelled Eternal One that has depression or some shit, tbh...

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This bitches demeanor does not sound First One-ish whatsoever. Nor does it sound like Eonar shit (So y'all mf's can just stop with that shit lmao).

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And I say mf's with excitement. Not out of rudeness. D:

[geco]

Che, nobody thought that the problem of night wars are the containers.
In other words, it is not that the power of the night warrior makes you an avatar of revenge. He only brings out the revenge that is in you?

Tyrande before the night war killed the Wardens. After the ritual he suddenly gets along with Maiev and listens to Shira when they defend Sira. It is more this willing to "chat" with Trall. (But not with Anduin.)

[Civciv]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Stiven_SR...67305310666756

With this voice, it kinda feels like Elune's more of a Dark Holy Pantheon chick, or a Fallen/Rebelled Eternal One that has depression or some shit, tbh...

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This bitches demeanor does not sound First One-ish whatsoever. Nor does it sound like Eonar shit (So y'all mf's can just stop with that shit lmao).

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And I say mf's with excitement. Not out of rudeness. D:

Oh god, Elune must be toying with her. DONT SCREAM LIKE THAT LE TYRANDE

[parttimemomo]

from the new book Grimoire of the Shadowlands and Beyond

The night fae of this realm seem unable or unwilling to provide details that might substantiate my theory, though I did locate one source who, when pressed, admitted to having overheard the Winter Queen refer to a certain Life-bound entity as her sister, a familial term that would seem ill fitting when used in reference to a being who is directly contrary to her very nature. Yer just as the Winter Queen assumed her place in the Pantheon of Death, this apparent counterpart took up a similar position in what we must hypothesize to be a Pantheon of Life.

Whatever relationship might have once existed between the two "siblings" whose bond was fundamental to the eternal cycle between Death and Life seems to have been all but severed. For how could even two figures of such unimaginable power commune across the veritable chasm that separates their disparate planes of existence? It is said (only in hushed whispers, I assure you) that in the eons that followed their parting, signs of resentment and pain began to mar the placid visage of the Winter Queen, especially when she heard the nage of her sister uttered within her forest. Even her recent action to save Ysera betrays those emotions,for I am told that the Winter Queen seemed to show a moment of hesitation before making the sacrifice required to save the soul of the dragon so dear to the one she resented. Yet it must be said that the truth of these matters exists solely within the Winter Queen herself, and to ask the inscrutable Enternal One for answers would be a fool's errand indeed.

[TheFirstOnes]

Daemos daemonium

Ahahahaha...

Ahahahahaha!

AHAHAHAHAHA!

PANTHEON OF LIFE, LET'S GOOOOOO!!!!!!

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If 9.2 isn't Life and Death Vs the Jailer, I'm gonna eat my fucking shoe.

[Raetary]

Damn the art is great.
Looks like i know what birthday gift imma wish for this year.

Do we know who narrates the book?

[TheFirstOnes]

Damn the art is great.
Looks like i know what birthday gift imma wish for this year.

Do we know who narrates the book?

Sean Copeland is the author. If you're talking In-Universe though, we don't know. It's supposedly just a Broker traveling dude.

[Gnome Wicked]

Nothing is devalued. The Titan's achievements still exist. It's just that there's more to the Cosmos than we once knew of.

I'm talking about the players' achievements, not the Titans'. All of their heroic struggles against great powers mean essentially nothing because it's pretty much a given that more and more of greater and greater powers will be coming off the conveyor belt. The problem is that it's not just "more to the Cosmos"; it's *more of the same*.

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PANTHEON OF LIFE, LET'S GOOOOOO!!!!!!

inb4 pantheon of pantheons

[olddog]

Pantheon of Order Pantheon of Disorder Pantheon of Death Pantheon of Life Pantheon of Void Pantheon of Light Pantheon of Pantheon of Pantheon Of PaNTheOn OF PANTHEON OF ALL PANTHEON