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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    2. have your own opinion and dont just link to someone elses opinion, it leads to like zero discussion...
    Says a public domain astroturf account.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Because it was.

    MOP gained TONS of subs. They started "bleeding" only after 6+ months of SOO (which lasted a lot longer, sadly)

    But speaking about QUALITY of gameplay- MOP was ABSOLUTE BEST!

    I my self was never ever fan of pandaren race. So, I didn't play them. Simple as that.
    But all other chars I played- I enjoyed them every single moment. Both pvp and pve.
    MoP lost 2.5 mill subs in a year, the fuck are you talking about? It lost as much as Cata did. Should tell you how "awesome" MoP was.

    MoP didnt lose much in SoO even. It was the initial game that lost that many.

  3. #23
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It was the initial game that lost that many.
    Well, the dailies fest of 5.0 evidently took its toll on the playerbase, especially when they were just coming out of one of the worst patches in the entire history of the game. They fixed it later, but the damage was already done - much like in Cata, although for different reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Well, the dailies fest of 5.0 evidently took its toll on the playerbase, especially when they were just coming out of one of the worst patches in the entire history of the game. They fixed it later, but the damage was already done - much like in Cata, although for different reasons.
    I never got the hate for the MoP dailies. I LOVED the reputation storylines! Came back every day to train up my Cloud Serpent and learn more lore about the Cloud Serpent riding. Loved slowly fixing up the farm. Loved getting more acquainted with each member of the Anglers on their stilt village. Loved the unfolding story of the Dominance Offensive/Shield Wall stories and the Isle of Thunder campaign. And the Golden Lotus coming back for Siege... that hurt.

    I was really sad when they stopped doing reputation storylines in WoD. It's just a grind with no meat, nothing to look forward to.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Well, the dailies fest of 5.0 evidently took its toll on the playerbase, especially when they were just coming out of one of the worst patches in the entire history of the game. They fixed it later, but the damage was already done - much like in Cata, although for different reasons.
    Doesnt matter why, thats what it lost in terms of subs.

  6. #26
    Are the systems too much? They are mostly passive and the maw and thorgast you can ignore after 2 weeks.

    Sure there is borrowed power but not as much as earlier.

    The oh so loved MoP Glyph system was definetly not perfect and was basically set and forget. YOu know... like conduits...
    I REALLY like the legendaries right now as i can completly change my playstyle. But i could live without it... kinda...

    I think people got way more critical of stuff in the last few years... and entitled. My only real problem with SL is the lacking story. It is just sooooooo short and not interesting and the great meaningful choices of the covenant. COuld not give less of a fuck about them. Don't even know who these soulbinds really are.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Are the systems too much? They are mostly passive and the maw and thorgast you can ignore after 2 weeks.

    Sure there is borrowed power but not as much as earlier.

    The oh so loved MoP Glyph system was definetly not perfect and was basically set and forget. YOu know... like conduits...
    I REALLY like the legendaries right now as i can completly change my playstyle. But i could live without it... kinda...

    I think people got way more critical of stuff in the last few years... and entitled. My only real problem with SL is the lacking story. It is just sooooooo short and not interesting and the great meaningful choices of the covenant. COuld not give less of a fuck about them. Don't even know who these soulbinds really are.

    I found SL simultaneously moved the game away from what I wanted in many dimensions. As a result the net fun playing the game went very negative, and I quit. No single change to SL would change this personal assessment.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  8. #28
    Legion, BfA and SL bleeds subs and people say it's because it's bad.

    Mop bleeds subs and people claim everyone loved it.

    I don't make a claim for either position, but it's very absurd how people are blind due to their own preferences and aren't consistent with their application of arguments.
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  9. #29
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    I think, still, that the problem is the theme. It's just not catchy enough. The art team is so good they can make zones that are enjoyable for some weeks out of any theme. Hell, it would even work for an "autobahn" expansion.

    I just don't even bother to gather the cov sets for all ALTs. But I still run legion raids to get missing pieces. I think this says a lot.
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well...what does it tell us? Only things that make money and grow are great? If something loses followers and makes less money it is dying and by default bad?

    Sadly, people (not you) like to follow that narrative...if it fits their agenda. Ofc until we point out that by this logic, a fastfood chain that keeps growing makes great food and a sequel to a movie that grosses less than the original is automatically crap.
    That's the thing it's more about personal preference from the person making the argument.

    If they like the product and it makes money its because its a good product and revenue reflects that.

    If they don't like it and they make money its because they using tricks and schemes to bless customers dry and they are the ones who can see it.

    Considering making money is almost always a scheme of sorts is kinda funny that that they don't realise they are "tricked" in the same way others are in the first example.

    Let's continue.

    They like it and it doesn't make money. Then it's because of other factors, one common one is that other people don't get it why the game is good.

    They don't like it and it doesn't make money. Then it's just proof that everyone should be able to see how bad of a product it is because they "saw" it. Ignoring the fact that even bad products have people who enjoy it.

    It's all bizarre how people jump through hoops to justify their own personal preference in relation to the products success.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    So many people calling MOP the "golden age." LOL! Remember the Kung Fu Panda freak outs. Lots of people quit. So many opinions, so little time to care about them. If you enjoy the game, play it, if not, stop or take a break.
    That's the overall issue with the community is that every expansion when it was current was getting a lot of crap. TBC was too alien and "not like the WoW we know", Wotlk was too easy and basically made the game the casual friendly game it is today, Cata had too little endgame content and too much focus on revamp, MoP was kung fu panda and didn't have "classic WoW lore", Warlords was too focused on garrisons and had nothing to do, Legion was RNGcraft where you spun the lottery wheel hoping to get high titanforge or the right legendary, BFA was azerite, warfront and islands "Legion 2.0", SL has "nothing to do".

    It only seems like people are able to look back at things with fond memories after they are gone.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    MOP = the golden age of WOW (even with a bit "over the top" amount of dailies in launch patch).

    Class design = better than 95% classes post-wod.
    Class balance = 1000000000000x better than anything right now.
    CMs = 10000000x better than M+ (since it was SKILL that matter there.... the only thing people could "tweak" is amount of gems. everything else was disabled = only your skills matter, not your gear)
    PVP = it would be stupid to even compare this.

    MOP alts = you ding > you farm your gear and you ENJOY THE CONTENT.

    Legion, BFA, SL alts = you ding > you farm your:
    RNG "legendary" item
    RNG "relics" for weps (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "azerite" gear (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "essence" abilities (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "corruption" gear
    RNG "conduits" (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    Soul ash for your "legendary" (lol) item (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs + TIER SETS)
    Renown (In order to be able to "equip" failed conduits)

    AND THEN.... you are left to farm your gear and do WORST THING EVER IMPLEMENTED IN WOW- WEEKLY CHEST SLOT MACHINE! (instead of what we had back in MOP (jp/vp vendors))
    RNG
    Nailed it here, the move to m+ esport bs rio has pretty much killed the game for me. You want to progress you m+, you want to raid, you need to m+ you want badge gear you have to m+ ...

  13. #33
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    The real issue is that 9.1 taking way too long.

    It should have been live like a week ago, then there would be no issue. Yes, people would find something to bitch about anyway, as they always do (and did in MOP plenty). I, personally, think that MOP was a good expansion, but people are legit on acid, if they think there wasn't as much bitching and videos about how bad things are back then.

    9.0 has overstayed its welcome HARD.

  14. #34
    One thing I do see myself doing a lot more as was said in the video is doing a lot of other things while playing the game. I have to sit through loading screens and flight paths a lot more than previous expansions so I find myself just browsing the internet or do some quick paperwork, then when its over I might do a world quest or 2 and then I'm already back to doing something else. I only really pay attention if I'm doing something like a story quest that I haven't seen before or if I'm tanking/healing which actually requires me to focus.

    Honestly I think the biggest issue is a lack of (engaging) content, which is also because of 9.1 taking forever to release and everything in the base game has already been done. Having Torghast to be rather dull isn't helping either despite being the flagship feature that was supposed to be carrying this expansion.

  15. #35
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    So many people calling MOP the "golden age." LOL! Remember the Kung Fu Panda freak outs. Lots of people quit. So many opinions, so little time to care about them. If you enjoy the game, play it, if not, stop or take a break.
    Kung fu panda freaks were silenced pretty much first patch.

    But I agree with so many opinions.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The real issue is that 9.1 taking way too long.

    It should have been live like a week ago, then there would be no issue. Yes, people would find something to bitch about anyway, as they always do (and did in MOP plenty). I, personally, think that MOP was a good expansion, but people are legit on acid, if they think there wasn't as much bitching and videos about how bad things are back then.

    9.0 has overstayed its welcome HARD.
    I kind of agree. If 9.1 (even sans mecha dungeon) was announced in feb. Ptr immediately following blizzcon, and then released around now, some of the strongest issues of 9.0 would have been resolved. I said on forums in december, if they can time this, then the lack of progression casuals complain about wouldnt be a thing. A month or two farming anima and holding a sub... eeeehhhh? Its not really a problem right? Maybe time to level another alt? Get them to renown cap and geared? Thats a couple of weeks. Maybe another one? And another? Its fine, right? Run your anima stuff on your main; play with your alts and the covenant campaigns, and a couple of months later its the next content drop and new goals and objectives.

    But if they missed that... then the economic value of holding that sub plays a stronger part in your decision making process. Hold a sub for two months with a bunch of alts you could level in the interim? Not a problem. Hold a sub for 4-6 months with an army of alts you could level in the interim? The calculus shifts dramatically. Do i want to level up 2 alts in that period? Yeah i suppose. Could be fun. Do i want to level up 6 alts? Through the same story and content? Doing the same anima grind once they all cap? In the former case, those alts are a pleasant distraction. But as you add another alt, it quickly becomes a chore dump every time you log in. Im paying for this?

    What was it Perdo called it? The christmas tree effect?

  17. #37
    WoD, was an extension of MoP, which was an extension of Cataclysm. While these expansions had their problems, it was the last time WoW was WoW. Ever since Legion, the games been shit. It became Diablo.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Shadowlands is fine and 9.1 is looking great.

    The only problem is how long we'll have been playing the launch content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    MOP = the golden age of WOW (even with a bit "over the top" amount of dailies in launch patch).

    Class design = better than 95% classes post-wod.
    Class balance = 1000000000000x better than anything right now.
    CMs = 10000000x better than M+ (since it was SKILL that matter there.... the only thing people could "tweak" is amount of gems. everything else was disabled = only your skills matter, not your gear)
    PVP = it would be stupid to even compare this.

    MOP alts = you ding > you farm your gear and you ENJOY THE CONTENT.

    Legion, BFA, SL alts = you ding > you farm your:
    RNG "legendary" item
    RNG "relics" for weps (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "azerite" gear (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "essence" abilities (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    RNG "corruption" gear
    RNG "conduits" (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs)
    Soul ash for your "legendary" (lol) item (which were failed attempt to mimic FLAWLESS MOP glyphs + TIER SETS)
    Renown (In order to be able to "equip" failed conduits)

    AND THEN.... you are left to farm your gear and do WORST THING EVER IMPLEMENTED IN WOW- WEEKLY CHEST SLOT MACHINE! (instead of what we had back in MOP (jp/vp vendors))
    RNG
    What a load of horseshit.

    I remember playing MoP. The start was annoying with endless dailies, but beyond that there was just nothing to do. Challengemodes were a joke. You did them once then you forgout about them ever existing, plus they were trivially easy. I rolled a lock just to get the set and instantly got it. MoP and all expansions before Legion were basically raidlog and then fuck off until next raidday, unless you were a pvper I guess. It simply had no interesting systems to keep you engaged whatsoever and dungeons were irrelevant.

    Legion saved this game. If you don't like it too bad, because this is the future (and the last 5 years).
    Last edited by enigma77; 2021-04-30 at 12:14 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. this is not a blog
    2. have your own opinion and dont just link to someone elses opinion, it leads to like zero discussion...
    Other people can have valid or interesting opinions too. If I were to only ever bring up my own opinions and never someone else's life would get boring real fast, and I'd probably come across as quite egocentric.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Shadowlands is fine and 9.1 is looking great.

    The only problem is how long we'll have been playing the launch content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What a load of horseshit.

    I remember playing MoP. The start was annoying with endless dailies, but beyond that there was just nothing to do. Challengemodes were a joke. You did them once then you forgout about them ever existing, plus they were trivially easy. I rolled a lock just to get the set and instantly got it. MoP and all expansions before Legion were basically raidlog and then fuck off until next raidday, unless you were a pvper I guess. It simply had no interesting systems to keep you engaged whatsoever and dungeons were irrelevant.

    Legion saved this game. Fuck off if you don't like it, because this is the future (and the last 5 years).
    In my opinion though, the best of the recent expansion was easily Legion, man I loved Legion, so much fun, so fresh at the time, especially after WoD. I played Legion pretty much 6 or 7 nights a week a couple hours each time, for almost 2 years straight, loved everything about that expansion. But for some reason Shadowlands feels like a generic hollowed out empty version, boring, and tedious, and lacking all fun.

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