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  1. #1

    When did players stop caring?

    Feeling a bit down, so sorry for this blogpost.

    I wernt down to the Maw early today, was in the mood to do the hunt. I called out in general that I was going there, got no response. Saw no one there. Cleared the first round, called out in general. Cleared second round. Third round. Finally the boss is up. And finally two other people show up. An unholy death knight and a retribution paladin. We go in and my dps is the highest so I get aggro. I was immediately wishing I'd gone restoration affinity or even guardian spec, that thing hit pretty hard. Right near the end one of the adds edges behind me, dazes me, and I get killed by a tower blast.

    So I run back to my body, and see the paladin running by. I whisper him thusly "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated." Nothing offensive, right? And he unloads at me quite a bit of vitriol.

    "I wasn't aware I was signing up for LFR when I came down to the Maw"
    "If you can't handle your own business you have no business playing, go die"
    And some third line I can't remember.

    So I reply "What's the big deal? I was tanking that thing for you the least you could do is throw me some offheals, I know ret has some good ones." But he'd already had me on ignore. I mean, really. If he'd gotten aggro I would've thrown my instant regrowths on him if he needed them, it's only common decency. To not only not get that, but to get attacked in such a way. I kinda miss the 90s. Players seemed nicer to each other in online games, since the idea of playing with another person possibly on the other side of the world was a novel idea then. You seemed to want to walk up to that guy, ask what he was doing, and make friends. Now it's "that guy died helping me? He deserved it."
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  2. #2
    If I had to guess (though present, I didn't game online, so I didn't experience the positive community), I'd say in the 90s, the internet & online gaming was fresh and new, so people were nicer because everyone was wide eyed, and in awe. Then people realized the internet also brought anonymity, so people could be dicks. And here we are. Probably one of the reasons a lot of folks just prefer to play solo, but of course that can also lead to the behavior you experienced since a solo player could be less likely to have a sense of community.

    To quote Zed from Men in Black, "Sucks, huh".

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Feeling a bit down, so sorry for this blogpost.

    I wernt down to the Maw early today, was in the mood to do the hunt. I called out in general that I was going there, got no response. Saw no one there. Cleared the first round, called out in general. Cleared second round. Third round. Finally the boss is up. And finally two other people show up. An unholy death knight and a retribution paladin. We go in and my dps is the highest so I get aggro. I was immediately wishing I'd gone restoration affinity or even guardian spec, that thing hit pretty hard. Right near the end one of the adds edges behind me, dazes me, and I get killed by a tower blast.

    So I run back to my body, and see the paladin running by. I whisper him thusly "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated." Nothing offensive, right? And he unloads at me quite a bit of vitriol.

    "I wasn't aware I was signing up for LFR when I came down to the Maw"
    "If you can't handle your own business you have no business playing, go die"
    And some third line I can't remember.

    So I reply "What's the big deal? I was tanking that thing for you the least you could do is throw me some offheals, I know ret has some good ones." But he'd already had me on ignore. I mean, really. If he'd gotten aggro I would've thrown my instant regrowths on him if he needed them, it's only common decency. To not only not get that, but to get attacked in such a way. I kinda miss the 90s. Players seemed nicer to each other in online games, since the idea of playing with another person possibly on the other side of the world was a novel idea then. You seemed to want to walk up to that guy, ask what he was doing, and make friends. Now it's "that guy died helping me? He deserved it."
    Oh yeah, 90's online gaming was a hoot...

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  4. #4
    If you whispered me that I would've assumed you were being a passive aggressive dick. I wouldn't whisper you back or put u on /ignore, I just would've ignored what you said and carried on.

    And as rude as u think it is, I dont know you. Id throw heals on you if I was there but im assuming u can handle yourself or else u wldnt have started the event.

  5. #5
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    ...and once again running into a guy who is a bit of a dick counts as "everyone stopped to care" - as if nobody ever suffered abuse or met an asshole in Vanilla, TBC, Wotlk etc..

    But I like that you had this experience with the hunt in the Maw, because I experienced EXACTLY the opposite - people helping out without needing to call it in general. Even the opposite faction.

  6. #6
    When rewards became a chore, when you gotta do bosses over and over and over every week or day, when you can silent queue into LFR, when the report system became automatized and everything you say becomes ofensive.

  7. #7
    Yea, getting heals or buffs from randoms is quite nice, but if someone whispered me and sounded passive-agressive about me not throwing a few heals (especially since I don't even see your healthbar), I would just straight up ignore you. If someone is so bothered by not getting automatically helped by passer-bys that they decide to whine to me about it, I won't be using my energy to reply and do something about it..

    One good reason also to not constantly help passer-bys is just "I didn't feel like it". For whatever reason that might be.

  8. #8
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    First you have to realize that he also died and lost stygia, which extremely annoying so whispering him this: "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated" is a mistake already. Then it probably escalated. I don't mean to offend you in any way, but I would do it differently. First, I would ask him if the boss died or if he died too or even apologized for dying and asked if he could help out to do this once again if he feels like it. Then probably wait for some more people to come.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phayde View Post
    If I had to guess (though present, I didn't game online, so I didn't experience the positive community), I'd say in the 90s, the internet & online gaming was fresh and new, so people were nicer because everyone was wide eyed, and in awe. Then people realized the internet also brought anonymity, so people could be dicks. And here we are. Probably one of the reasons a lot of folks just prefer to play solo, but of course that can also lead to the behavior you experienced since a solo player could be less likely to have a sense of community.

    To quote Zed from Men in Black, "Sucks, huh".
    Scientists would have flame wars on ARPANET in the 1970s. If you want to go back further, the founding fathers of the US would have flame wars via newspapers over setting up the Constitution in the 1700s. Its always been there.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  10. #10
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    I adventure as disc, so I tend to heal people around me, but while I do care, I also don’t go out of my way to try to spam heals on people I see. I rightfully assume they can handle themselves in the content they’re in, and, if they can’t, they’ll politely ask chats or people around them if they can assist.

    If someone whispers me what you whispered, I’d take it as passive-aggressive snark, and probably wouldn’t react well to it. My gaming time is limited, and it’s not spent purposely healing strangers everywhere I go. To be fair, unless you’re focused or targeted by me, I won’t even know you’re in trouble. I don’t show health bars (can you even show those?) or nameplates for friendly units.

    This isn’t a matter of not caring, it’s just it’s not my responsibility to sustain the population of Azeroth.

  11. #11
    I think that has nothing to do with players stopping caring.

    The new generations just take it for granted. They act like dicks cause they can. The internet allows them that.

    Yes, i do miss the 90's and actually even before the internet being on your own bubble was better in terms of social interactions. That Paladin was a dick. The problem isn't with the game, it's with what the internet became.
    Also, he is a crap player.

  12. #12
    As soon as Cataclysm dropped. Game started snowballing down hill.

  13. #13
    When you're not in a group that player has no obligation to you. You set expectation and blame on someone after the fact, after they could have reasonably helped if you had asked when it was prudent during and hell you weren't even that nice about it, arguably mean even.

    The Maw isn't a nice place already and now you perhaps aggressively to them critique their lack of play when they didn't ask for that treatment, and you didn't ask for help directly or gave them any real indication you needed it.

    Not all players are psychics and can tell when another player has got it or not. Open world is comprised of all skill levels - so expect the worst. And anyway, being entitled to other people's work isn't just there for you to mooch at liberty, especially when you just assume it and don't even ask nicely ahead of time.

    This is a social game and you got nothing because you didn't ask until it was too late, in a way that complained and criticized. And hell that's not even getting into even if you had asked ahead of time asking a dps player for taunts and heals which is its own can of worms. That's not their role, they didn't sign up for either, which is probably why they made the LFR comment. No wonder they blew up at you.

    But to actually answer the question, this seems more like a you problem and hell even a Maw problem. Other players as recently as Legion Invasions, Broken Shore, or BFA's Mechagon and Naz'jatar were more than willing to help with world content.

  14. #14
    When shadowlands pre-patch started. People were clamoring for their character customizations and faster leveling but I knew that those changes weren’t (and shouldn’t) have been reason enough to end bfa. Also blizzard should have made a bfa s5 to lessen the length of s4. And the reason why I stopped caring then was because was when the arena season ended. I had gotten rival (first season) and was beginning to enjoy myself after trying again in late Sept to the final days. And the reason why I was doing was to chase after my last rank 4 essence. I could have boosted by I wanted to earn 2400 fairly.

    And well since then (minus the 2 week honeymoon I had at launch), I just really haven’t cared for the game like I did in TBC (solo quester back then at 70, I really love quests), Wrath, MoP, Legion and bfa 8.2+. All anecdotal of course.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I think that has nothing to do with players stopping caring.

    The new generations just take it for granted. They act like dicks cause they can. The internet allows them that.

    Yes, i do miss the 90's and actually even before the internet being on your own bubble was better in terms of social interactions. That Paladin was a dick. The problem isn't with the game, it's with what the internet became.
    Also, he is a crap player.
    That's just bullshit.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I kinda miss the 90s. Players seemed nicer to each other in online games
    wait what ??? lol .....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Oh yeah, 90's online gaming was a hoot...
    Indeed. Me and a few friends played mario kart together on SNES. We were on a line waiting for our turn.

    OP, Unfortunately I am not in the Maw a lot, if I were and saw you struggling I would help. Even if other faction I would help.

    In the 90s I would do the same. Blame indivuals for being idiots.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-04-30 at 03:16 PM.

  18. #18
    Because the Maw isn't a team effort. Also people are going to complete their dailies real quick and gtfo. Thats pretty much the crux of it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Feeling a bit down, so sorry for this blogpost.

    I wernt down to the Maw early today, was in the mood to do the hunt. I called out in general that I was going there, got no response. Saw no one there. Cleared the first round, called out in general. Cleared second round. Third round. Finally the boss is up. And finally two other people show up. An unholy death knight and a retribution paladin. We go in and my dps is the highest so I get aggro. I was immediately wishing I'd gone restoration affinity or even guardian spec, that thing hit pretty hard. Right near the end one of the adds edges behind me, dazes me, and I get killed by a tower blast.

    So I run back to my body, and see the paladin running by. I whisper him thusly "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated." Nothing offensive, right? And he unloads at me quite a bit of vitriol.

    "I wasn't aware I was signing up for LFR when I came down to the Maw"
    "If you can't handle your own business you have no business playing, go die"
    And some third line I can't remember.

    So I reply "What's the big deal? I was tanking that thing for you the least you could do is throw me some offheals, I know ret has some good ones." But he'd already had me on ignore. I mean, really. If he'd gotten aggro I would've thrown my instant regrowths on him if he needed them, it's only common decency. To not only not get that, but to get attacked in such a way. I kinda miss the 90s. Players seemed nicer to each other in online games, since the idea of playing with another person possibly on the other side of the world was a novel idea then. You seemed to want to walk up to that guy, ask what he was doing, and make friends. Now it's "that guy died helping me? He deserved it."
    Maybe next time, ask them if they'd like to group, then you guys can use heals on each other and coordinate.
    Expecting some rando to just know that you weren't able to handle the mob, without being asked to do anything, then getting mad at them because they didn't heal you is a bit much.
    It's not a case of a guy being a dick (though he was if his responses were like that, but that's after the fact), it's a case of you expecting things from other people.
    Your whisper can easily be taken as a passive aggressive, snide remark, so really, you instigated the toxicity here.

  20. #20
    You opened the conversation by passive aggressively blaming him for your death. I would have been surprised if he had acted in any other way. Actually that is likely the response you would have received back in the 90s too.

    I do agree with your statement in general, people used to be friendlier and nicer back then, and a lot of the atmosphere has changed, but this is not the example that shows it.

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