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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I'm honestly surprised how many mind readers we have here that are telling me what my mindset and intentions regarding my message to the paladin was. Do people just assume every time that someone else is being passive aggressive?
    You're right, that wasn't totally passive-aggressive to say to a complete stranger.
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    Just don't say this then. It contributes nothing to the group, and no one is obligated to hold a new person's hand.
    In other MMORPGs it's quite common to say that you're new. People will be more forgiving and eager to teach.

    But yeah the elitist toxic WoW community can't have any of that.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    When levelling a Paladin in Classic my biggest "OMG! Now I remember why I hated vanilla!" moment was when I realised that buffing passersby was essentially pointless because Pally buffs only lasted 5 minutes, unlike Priest or Mage buffs.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Wait... it's advanced content, yet others can't be expected to have the situational awareness and common sense to off-heal? So, actually it's only advanced content for some people, the others just get to leech. That seems to be what you're saying.
    If that makes it easier for you, sure.

    Putting your survivability on the "situational awareness" of others is a surefire way to die.

    If that makes it advanced, ok. Advanced reading group was obviously a tongue-in-cheek comment, but that may have been....advanced
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  4. #204
    I think the op was right because he was genuine in the moment and is being himself. The other person could have considered that or many other things other than theirself. I can see his experience and the experience of the other person being a loved and celebrated interaction that would, in anything else, be memorable and beloved.

    If Han Solo said, 'Thanks for the help,' to a stranger, you'd love him. If an anime character was engaged in a battle with a monster and out of breath and his eyes glanced over to a stranger who was walking through the woods sipping tea but not helping, he might, in exhaustion and with attitude say or shout, 'a little help *weez* would have been/would be nice *weez*' and you'd love both him and the new character's interaction - especially if the passerby was unaware of the conflict and caught off guard and/or was watching without helping (out of nervousness or even out of glee). All of these scenes fit my understanding of the op's experience and they're all memorable and wonderful character defining moments and riveting story possibilities.

    He was engaged in a battel with something difficult and reached out to a passerby/onlooker and his personality/character (slightly haughty and defiant, like inu yasha or like han solo or Indiana Jones or harry potter when he's being brash or like any enthusiastic FF character or a frazzled pokemon trainer or Link when he's intense or like any stressed/heightened emotion/sarcastic character in anything, (and this extends to/includes bold/quiet types like large fellas making jabs at one another upon entering a locker room after a game/match, 'a few heals would have been nice,' 'you shouldn't have gone L.o.s. I had you,' 'yeah yeah'), had him shouting/whispering/saying his comments in exasperation and in character about the/in the moment. I like it and am keeping in the story.

    I don't know why people feel their way was better/justified. The other guy who was rude back to the op who wasn't trying to be rude but may have sounded or seemed rude in his exasperation from being out of breath and feeling heightened at that peak moment, missed out on a cool friendship that could have lead to many adventures in a starwars, final fantasy, anime-like journey. Maybe they'll cross paths again and the other guy will be appalled that he keeps bumping into this 'haphazard' adventurer, and roll his eyes and move on, until a third meeting with another large boss fight gets him personally involved because there's something he wants or something at stake.

    Everyone is different and it's surprising that what people seem to love in shows and games and movies, they don't like in real life, but they probably would be ok with who they consider to be rude, unlikable, unrefined, gross, etc, if they removed themselves from the moment and looked at it from the outside - here you are bumping into someone you normally wouldn't have, and both of your personas are exposed - if they gave these epic interactions and meet ups a chance, they'd find them alike stories and characters they love. This is often how our favorite characters get introduced. I'm sure we've all met someone we didn't want to at first. And even if you still see him as being rude or whatever, if that's part of his personality or that's how his character came out at that moment, how you treat them is just as important as how you feel you've been treated.

    And at the end of the day, don't always assume that your bubble is the important one. And see everything as an opportunity. I guess I'm the overly optimistic and naïve character ^_^!

    PS

    I can also see the op being the smart/bookish/scholarly type of character whose attention is placed more on analytical processes such as, 'if you had only accomplished providing me the necessary heal, then we wouldn't be in this mess now would we, next time, the aforementioned taunt would be most agreeable to our success.' Completely innocent and focused on the methods and research on what went wrong and how to improve, perhaps so much so that it seems to the other person, to lack kinship (when in fact, it's his way of achieving kinship and sorting out mistakes for a better attempt). Which I also love!

    Don't ever change, Op, you're more likely to become a member of ragtag band of motley crewmembers akin to older ff series or a team of adventurers like older rpgs than those who shoot down your ways. Renzokuken!
    Last edited by dunkl; 2021-05-04 at 05:51 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Feeling a bit down, so sorry for this blogpost.

    I wernt down to the Maw early today, was in the mood to do the hunt. I called out in general that I was going there, got no response. Saw no one there. Cleared the first round, called out in general. Cleared second round. Third round. Finally the boss is up. And finally two other people show up. An unholy death knight and a retribution paladin. We go in and my dps is the highest so I get aggro. I was immediately wishing I'd gone restoration affinity or even guardian spec, that thing hit pretty hard. Right near the end one of the adds edges behind me, dazes me, and I get killed by a tower blast.

    So I run back to my body, and see the paladin running by. I whisper him thusly "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated." Nothing offensive, right? And he unloads at me quite a bit of vitriol.

    "I wasn't aware I was signing up for LFR when I came down to the Maw"
    "If you can't handle your own business you have no business playing, go die"
    And some third line I can't remember.

    So I reply "What's the big deal? I was tanking that thing for you the least you could do is throw me some offheals, I know ret has some good ones." But he'd already had me on ignore. I mean, really. If he'd gotten aggro I would've thrown my instant regrowths on him if he needed them, it's only common decency. To not only not get that, but to get attacked in such a way. I kinda miss the 90s. Players seemed nicer to each other in online games, since the idea of playing with another person possibly on the other side of the world was a novel idea then. You seemed to want to walk up to that guy, ask what he was doing, and make friends. Now it's "that guy died helping me? He deserved it."
    Today a druggie threatened me, verbally in person, and i insubtly let him know i was neither impressed nor appreciative of that fact.

    This interaction, while negative, was not indicative of people in general being senseless dicks, but rather of having encountered one like that.
    And since such people tend to clump together it might create the impression that "people" in general are like that, while the reality is usually that you've just been unlucky, you've been going through a bad neighborhood (physically or metaphorically), or you're presently a bit more sensitive to such dickery because of whatever reason.

    So yeah, i hope your luck, locale and morale improve, as i've not encountered significant amounts of people who are as you describe.

    Best of luck!
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    FYI, there are damage meters. I watched a streamer do multiple boss fights, and the damage meter was right there to show how they were doing compared to everyone else. You just can't discuss them in-game. So for a raid of friends, you can chat about it in Discord or the like. If you're in a PUG, you can't unless you somehow know how to contact one of those players out-of-game. It's intended to make the game more PUG friendly. There's definitely a trade-off there, but those who are serious about raiding do have the tools for self-improvement.
    Yes, but the moment some guy dislikes that streamer they will report them and that account will be banned. This rule is ridiculously opressive. You have to take your talk of performance out of the game because someone could get offended by the fact that you want to improve yourself.

    Not to mention that this system forces players to carry the weaker ones in PUGs, without asking if they are okay with that. While this is cute for the one being carried, I bet there are many situations where a player is kicked from the group because of their performance but can't be told so because of the rules. So that weaker player has no clue what is wrong and is subsequently robbed of the chance to fix their problems.

    I know WoWs playerbase can be a bunch of asshats sometimes, but at least they give it to me straight when I suck and don't get banned for honesty. Sure this hurts some feelings and many times they are also plain wrong and idiots, but that is better then constantly fearing to be banned if you offend someone for saying they need to step up their game.

    You can't go through life wrapped in a safety blanket.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    Yea you probably played Kingdom Hearts, sheltered life... lol. Dude, it was much worse than it is now. Rose tinted nostalgia is strong
    No I played mostly counter strike.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by dunkl View Post

    PS

    I can also see the op being the smart/bookish/scholarly type of character whose attention is placed more on analytical processes such as, 'if you had only accomplished providing me the necessary heal, then we wouldn't be in this mess now would we, next time, the aforementioned taunt would be most agreeable to our success.' Completely innocent and focused on the methods and research on what went wrong and how to improve, perhaps so much so that it seems to the other person, to lack kinship (when in fact, it's his way of achieving kinship and sorting out mistakes for a better attempt). Which I also love!

    Don't ever change, Op, you're more likely to become a member of ragtag band of motley crewmembers akin to older ff series or a team of adventurers like older rpgs than those who shoot down your ways. Renzokuken!
    ...good god.
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Just curious but what did you hope to gain from whispering him "Some heals or a taunt when I was low would've been appreciated."?
    "Sorry about that, I didn't have friendly health bars on and didn't know you needed help. Also sorry for not rezzing you when the elite was dead and making you run across the entire zone to get your loot and stygia back. My bad." It's what I would've done. Are people really that jaded that they see every comment as an attack on themselves? The number of "you were being passive aggressive so you deserve anything you get" responses are baffling.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    "Sorry about that, I didn't have friendly health bars on and didn't know you needed help. Also sorry for not rezzing you when the elite was dead and making you run across the entire zone to get your loot and stygia back. My bad." It's what I would've done. Are people really that jaded that they see every comment as an attack on themselves? The number of "you were being passive aggressive so you deserve anything you get" responses are baffling.
    It sounds passive aggressive to me. And you were honestly expecting an apology from a dude playing a video game in his spare time that probably had 0 idea u were at risk of dying. I just don't think thats realistic at all. His responses weren't ok but probably was in shock at the thought u wanted an apology from him
    Last edited by ellieg; 2021-05-05 at 05:00 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    "Sorry about that, I didn't have friendly health bars on and didn't know you needed help. Also sorry for not rezzing you when the elite was dead and making you run across the entire zone to get your loot and stygia back. My bad." It's what I would've done. Are people really that jaded that they see every comment as an attack on themselves? The number of "you were being passive aggressive so you deserve anything you get" responses are baffling.
    Lol, your state of bafflement is ironic.

    "Sorry that you sucked."

    Honey and vinegar man, its really, really basic human interaction.
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by kodemonkee View Post
    No I played mostly counter strike.
    I played before that game ever came out. Quake 1. I've seen the scene. It was worse. People are more aware these days.

  13. #213
    i think players stopped caring somewhere during those 15 years of doing the same thing over and over in different colored environments, op, hth

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    really? I find multi-tagging more community friendly than the opposite. Without it it led to people trying to get each other killed so they can get the tag on whatever quest mob / rare or whatever.

    Multi-tagging promotes helping each other, even if that helping is just 1 spell/ability.
    If I get swarmed by mobs in a dense area, I'm almost guaranteed to have people come help because it's a quick quest completion for all of us. Vanilla, no one would care at all and just let me or the player die and then they can kill the mobs for quest credits.

    I really fail to see how this is "anti-community" when it's a benefit to everyone if everyone tags the mobs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Internet anonymity was a thing as soon as internet came to be for the masses... in, fact over time, it has become less anonymous due to people being more tech savvy and doxxing. In fact a lot of people who were douchebags saw this opportunity in the internet, which is why I think early days were so much more vitriol across all games I played. Over time when internet became more normalized the normal standard for behaviour started to seep into internet culture and online communities and games started to implement more and more restrictions for bad behaviour. But maybe that was your point.
    Yeah I just didn't want to write a novel about it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivank0v View Post
    ...good god.
    Hold on... I wanna see where this fanfic goes

  15. #215
    Empathy goes both ways.

    When you did not receive help there are many reason of such, maybe the guy is on his/her way to legal blindness playing the game with all the assist mode on, maybe he was just watching netflix, maybe he family got the covf and he is in a seriously bad mood, maybe he lags like shit and he never see your character, or maybe he was in a fight with his dad/mom/wife/husband for cutting his/her cable for playing too much while you are dying.

    The lack of empathy starts when you assumed he ignore you on purpose, and initiate a negative message ASSUMING just that. And people just respond with YOUR lack of empathy with even more lacking of empathy.

    Make sure you yourself offer empathy to others (like consider all possibilities for why they are unable to help), before you demand empathy from others.
    Last edited by gobio; 2021-05-07 at 08:54 AM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    I played before that game ever came out. Quake 1. I've seen the scene. It was worse. People are more aware these days.
    Hmm I don't know I started playing CS 1.5 back in the days and maybe it depends from which country you are but it was friendlier on german servers than now.

  17. #217
    This is why I never initiate a fight if I'm not specced for tanking and I'll slow DPS to make sure I don't get aggro. I like helping others, but I learned a long time ago not to expect help.

    Also, I'd prefer someone tell me if they've never done a dungeon. It sucks that apparently that runs the risk of getting kicked (I'm guessing only if you're DPS), but I'd rather take 10 seconds before fights to write a one sentence explanation than deal with a lot of unnecessary stress and deaths. I don't know what's so difficult about a quick glance at the adventure guide, Blizzard couldn't have possibly made it easier without making DBM part of the core interface, but most people can't seem to be bothered to do that. Believe me, it is obvious who hasn't done certain dungeons before, don't think by being silent people won't have noticed by the first boss.

    Anyway, I like helping out, but I admit I don't always pay attention in the outdoor world. The amount of times my cats get in front of the monitor when I'm trying to fight something difficult can not be understated either. :P I have target-of-target turned on though, so I usually see when whoever has aggro is in trouble and assist if I'm able.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    You can show friendly nameplates in the open world, yeah. But as you said, it isn't your job to keep random people alive.
    I'd like to say it sounds like bystander syndrome, but since your own chances of success go down when the person tanking the elite for you dies bystander doesn't seem quite correct. I get that there's no obligation to help others if they're not in your group, but when actually increase your own chances of failure by not helping the logic goes out the window. I wonder how the response would've been if after I died the elite killed them as well?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  19. #219
    I had a fun experience when doing WoD reputation for flying. There was some rare or elite that I killed just before other person got there or tagged it. He kept sending me stuff like "I'll fuck your mom, your dead, I'll come there and beat you up" for 30 minutes. Completely insane.

    Some people get triggered easily and hard. Especially if they made a mistake and can't admit to being bad. Perfectionism is a big problem in games I think? Healthy Gamer Dr K is it? On youtube talked about it once or twice.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    "Sorry about that, I didn't have friendly health bars on and didn't know you needed help. Also sorry for not rezzing you when the elite was dead and making you run across the entire zone to get your loot and stygia back. My bad." It's what I would've done. Are people really that jaded that they see every comment as an attack on themselves? The number of "you were being passive aggressive so you deserve anything you get" responses are baffling.
    Well, I do agree with the other posters here that I also would understand your whisper as passive-aggressive.
    I never expect other players in the open world to do anything for me - it isn't their job - but if someone does something for me I throw them a thanks or help them out. I can understand your frustration, but I can even more understand that the guy you whispered was bothered by that you not only felt entitled to his help, but also whispered him with a clear stated critique.

    I should mention that I never have friendly name-plates on - they are completely useless for me and just clutter my screen, so other players in the open world are more or less invisible for me.

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