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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    WoW's entire world is dead and guilds have become gated communities because people don't want to spend time with the toxic cesspool of entitled babyrage mcshitfit players that make up the average person you run into. In other games ideas exist like "the party is only as fast as its slowest member" or "anyones first time? i need to explain X mechanic" or simply "hi guys". As opposed to [TOTAL CRUSHING SILENCE] where everyone may as well be bots or some malding asshole with an ego trying to have a power trip because the MM part of MMO means people that exist to silently carry them.

    Saying the wow userbase is not majority asshole leaning is like saying england is known for its droughts and desert climate. You can say it all you want but theres years of evidence and personal experience that the game has catered, cultivated and promoted being a defensive asshole living in a minefield at best. With everyone else hiding behind their guilds walls never interacting with the world at all because why would they want to?
    It's crazy how anecdotes be anecdotes. My entire WoW experience is nothing like you said, and yet a large majority of my DF content is total crushing silence in FF14, often with me being the only person saying hi in the beginning. I can't speak for the majority of the playerbase in either game, simply my experiences and frankly they're polar opposite to yours...

  2. #22
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The same is told for the other two, try reading for a change.
    Irony has reached exponential levels now.


    I find that people online react to how you treat them in general. Like all interactions communications are key. You just have to ignore the rager and such. Then remember the positive encounters.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Irony has reached exponential levels now.


    I find that people online react to how you treat them in general. Like all interactions communications are key. You just have to ignore the rager and such. Then remember the positive encounters.
    Well that is the thing though, at least in ESO atm, there is no treatment cause you never talk anyway, the game is so insanely easy in its LFG form that i simply do not understand why those guys are so insanely weird, i wish i made this shit up, i literally had a guy argue that he aint moving from the entrance and to kick him, while the 3 of us had already cleared 60% of the dungeon (It was one of the MEGA EXTRA POINTLESSLY EASY ones) while he was doing his own rant.

    I am not talking about some sort of relevant content, like maybe a hard mode or raid, literally the daily run, which also happened to be one of the most irrelevant, vanilla dungeons of ESO.

    To make you understand how irrelevant, most mobs have 35K HP in there, 1 ability hits for 20k, from 1 DPS, so you literally can press 2 buttons and explode the whole dungeon, they prefer to leave/argue/complain than rushing the dungeon down.

  4. #24
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    It's crazy how anecdotes be anecdotes. My entire WoW experience is nothing like you said, and yet a large majority of my DF content is total crushing silence in FF14, often with me being the only person saying hi in the beginning. I can't speak for the majority of the playerbase in either game, simply my experiences and frankly they're polar opposite to yours...
    See that is fascinating because my experience is the complete opposite of yours too. In FFXIV most of the time every dungeon i do starts off with "Hello" or "o/" from most people, not all though. There is sometimes talking throughout but also a few silent runs as well. I know people are saying that in FFXIV the toxicity is simply silenced/banned, but i would rather that than WoW where it is practically encouraged in the PUG scene. But i also like when new players start playing the game, and don't get off to making it unapproachable. (Not directed at you)

  5. #25
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Well that is the thing though, at least in ESO atm, there is no treatment cause you never talk anyway, the game is so insanely easy in its LFG form that i simply do not understand why those guys are so insanely weird, i wish i made this shit up, i literally had a guy argue that he aint moving from the entrance and to kick him, while the 3 of us had already cleared 60% of the dungeon (It was one of the MEGA EXTRA POINTLESSLY EASY ones) while he was doing his own rant.

    I am not talking about some sort of relevant content, like maybe a hard mode or raid, literally the daily run, which also happened to be one of the most irrelevant, vanilla dungeons of ESO.

    To make you understand how irrelevant, most mobs have 35K HP in there, 1 ability hits for 20k, from 1 DPS, so you literally can press 2 buttons and explode the whole dungeon, they prefer to leave/argue/complain than rushing the dungeon down.
    Why play with toxic people if you don't need them to do content? Play with those people that are fun to play with. I'm sure ESO has a friends list feature.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Why play with toxic people if you don't need them to do content? Play with those people that are fun to play with. I'm sure ESO has a friends list feature.
    Right, a bit of a pause here.

    This post was literally just to ask the people that claim the title, i will sound like an elitist now, but i am always "ahead of the curve" type of player if i am gonna waste my time playing a game, if i am playing, i am learning to reach some artificial goal i set in the game for myself, because i figured out what the game is about.

    I dont experience games as the average player is my point, i either have a bubble of friends that we are all slightly better players generally , or i am part of the "rush" "ahead of the curve" "Must rush to end game", therefor i am surrounded by similar players therefor i dont comprehend 99% of the complains about "Community" in any game and i have played literally everything from the "relevant game releases" (Blessed Online isnt a relevant game as example, so of course i aint wasting my time trying a shit game) the last 15 years apart from FFXIV.

    Now that i am experiencing some form of community, (We cant always be online at the same time, and not many started ESO) even at its most basic part, cause we are literally talking, in terms of WoW, i am doing a level 51 normal dungeon, in 230 ilvl gear for my daily quest, and there are multiple cases were the toxicity doesnt even make sense.

    So the title is accurate, all these self-proclaimed casuals WoW haters on mmo-champion, always claim these secondary MMOs are so much better, and here i am, toxicity in the most irrelevant difficulty i have ever seen in a MMO.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-05-01 at 09:49 PM.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    See that is fascinating because my experience is the complete opposite of yours too. In FFXIV most of the time every dungeon i do starts off with "Hello" or "o/" from most people, not all though. There is sometimes talking throughout but also a few silent runs as well. I know people are saying that in FFXIV the toxicity is simply silenced/banned, but i would rather that than WoW where it is practically encouraged in the PUG scene. But i also like when new players start playing the game, and don't get off to making it unapproachable. (Not directed at you)
    Personally I don't consider silent runs antisocial or bad community. Sometimes people just want to farm xp and don't wanna talk. But the novice network is always lively. That and world chat expecially when Odin is up.

    Sure there are assholes occasionally, but from my experience they are the minority.

  8. #28
    EVERY SINGLE online game where you can play in anonymity has toxicity. Every singel one. There is not one! NOT ONE game that is not toxic in pugs and lfg.

    But on the other side: The moment you join a group of players you play regularily together that part of the game is gone and does not matter anymore. WoW, ESO, FF14.

    WoW is challenging and pugs are toxic.
    ESO is easy and pugs are toxic.
    FF14 is easy and pugs are toxic. Also most FF14 players are incredibly arrogant and openly hostile if anyone mentions another MMO... honestly never seen in at that level in any other game.

    The difference is what you want out of the game. Like constant challenge: Go wow. Like RP and anime-stories: Go FF14. Like a really solid story in traditional fantasy: Go ESO.
    Somthing for everyone. Can't talk about GW2. Havent played that in ages. Every other MMO is mostly just bad or the MTX are not offset by a good game like in FF14. So many MTX but the game is fun until you hit endgame. Well and if you ignore Lalafell, the walking trafficone abominations. No idea what the dev smoked when they created these failed experiments of sentient joint-less stiff blowupdolls

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Can't talk about GW2. Havent played that in ages.
    If you enjoy ESO single player-story mode gameplay, then GW2 is exactly as good if not better, mostly because the story line is literally there, in a window to show you how to follow it, compared to

    "Wait...This NPC was literally with me 3 hours ago in Western Skyrim...Now i am saving her from some sort of Hell before that story line, K I FUCKED UP THE STORIES oh well", gets annoying pretty fast

    I would highly suggest buying Path of Fire (heart of thorns is free with that) and spending some extra $ if you can afford to play the Hero story or w/e its called in GW2, its free if you log on when its active, which is what i do the last couple of years, i patch it every month, log on to get the freebie quest (They averagely introduce a new part every 2-3 months, so every 6 months-1 year you literally have like a good chunk of quests of the main hero story).

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    I was gonna write a wall of text explaining things but i chose against it.

    Will be brief, currently playing ESO for the first time, all i have met in ESO is toxicity, and not even at higher level of the game because ESO doesnt even have that, we are talking daily LFG completely braindead irrelevant Normal dungeons toxicity while trying to do their Daily Dungeon Quests.

    The game is a joke in terms of difficulty, we are talking even in Veteran Dungeons, 9/10 abilities do not do anything to be considered "dangerous" and the 1/10 is the hard mode last boss ability that either leaves you with 10% and even if you die the continuous reviving makes everything a joke, it makes LFR seem like Mythic raiding.

    Quick examples: 99% of the people are silent, the moment anything delays them even for 1 minute, they leave the group, they demand to be kicked or they AFK if they know the dungeon is gonna take 13mins instead of 10mins cause its not one of the easier ones for their daily EXP bonus dungeon, we are talking about a game where you pull 20-50 mobs and AoE them down in 3 seconds in terms of difficulty daily dungeon, they are that pointlessly stupid and easy, and instead of playing, they rather sit and whine about who queued for this dungeon (Newsflash, its me trying to farm my items).

    Two times the people that knew it was me that queues for the dungeon cause i am farming a particular set, they kicked me as punishment for making them waste their queue

    There are many more i encounter daily the last 15 days that we are playing ESO, but there is no point in writing it all, i will just say that any form of communication has literally failed in the past 15 days, apart from 1 guy that i will admit was awesome and patient, since apparently the game fucked us over at the random veteran dungeon queue and it put us at one of the harder ones at our newly max level characters, we didnt have the DPS :< so kudos to that 1 guy out of the 400 different ones i met.

    This isnt in the Mythic, or +15 content, that game has no such thing, this is literally the lowest possible form of content that game has and its like that.

    GW2, despite playing since the start as single player MMO experience, is mostly the same the last couple of years.

    Get on to get my freebie Hero Story and eventually do it when i have time all together cause its fun-->Proceed to read in general about WoW argument (For some reason they love to argue 24/7 about it)--> Proceed to see requests for help only to be met with silenc --> Alt +F4 cause i dont care to play, just getting the hero story.

    Eventually play, try to check out the new areas they add for the story line -->Try to do the event -->Watch people ask to do it, myself included-->Be met with mockery or silence, or "Go back to WoW, that event is so last month" was a legit response i saw once.

    The GW2 is spread over 3 years so i will say the "toxicity" is probably low, but my point stands.

    So i sincerely ask you guys, where are these communities you are talking about and WoW is the only MMO with a problem? I already know if i try FFXIV i will meet something similar, but i dont really enjoy the FF games, and neither my friends so that probably wont happen.
    Dude its still a wall of text.

    But still ill respond ( i agree with you btw).

    ESO: fun systems. But the classes/cross class system is a bit bleh. The homes are nice. the rest...just yup.

    GW2: just yup.

    could add many more things.



    They main problems i think other MMO's have are:

    - To condeluted. To many systems, weird stat names etc to learn.
    - to bloated with content, while most of it is useless.
    - no short clear stuff. Dungeons in most other games are longer and some raid nights.
    - little to no addon support. meaning you can not chose your play style and need to use the sometimes harder to use game ui.
    - most of the worlds have pretty looks. But WoW makes the hero's and the world fit 2gether. While othergames a lot of the time it feels like the world is less graphacilly detailed as the PC.
    - no clear path. and yes open world is nice. But a bit of a red line story wise is nice.

    For me its like this.
    Many other MMO's might score better on 1 or 2 things as WoW. Per instance, ToR ( star wars) had some way cool story missions. Or ESO ( homes) etc. But they fail at other things. they might be a 8 or even a 9 in some area's. But they are a 5 in the rest.
    While WoW might not be a 9 in most things. They are a solid 7 to 8 in everything.

    conclusion/main answer:
    And yes, hating WoW is simple. But its wrong. There are problems with it. But still its a better mmo then most/all games. and it still online after 16...correction 17 years almost.
    But i blame the hating everything adult emo crowd. Look at cyberpunk 2077 ( yes it had major problems, yes it was buggy). But many games have done the same ( hell watchdogs legion was more buggy for me). Or how about fallout 76 ( hacks, pay2win, buggy, irl collecters edition problems etc). But you do not hear as much about that ( or as big negative thing) like with cdpr's games. ( blame jason shrieder in part for that)
    Sometimes the hate for WoW is correct for certain problems. But most of the time its just bashing, or justifying themselves to quit the game.
    Does WoW need work, yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoriangun View Post
    Games don't decide or create/foster a great community.

    People in general are dicks and they just happen to play a number of games.

    Thats it, nothing more.

    on topic with FF14, its TOS is far stricter then any other title, so it doesn't create a great community, it merely silences them. (if anything I consider the community in FF14 to be amongst the worst especially when it comes to sexual harassment, never seen a game where so many players try to treat the game like Tinder)
    Have become i would say.

    Used to be ( and i still try to be/succeeding) a nice guy. But people have become more jaded, self centered. Just look at this forum. You type 1 word wrong, or they get triggered by 1 word. and you are in a 10 page qoute war.

    And i think because some of these other mmo's are harder, more nich, smaller player groups. The bad apple's stand out more.

    As for
    Games don't decide or create/foster a great community.
    i blame youtubers/twitch streamers for that. Games can be great. We used to have d bags 2 in WoW. But also some very nice people.
    But most games now have hardcore stream kings. Why say and do a lot of things for views. And they foster more hatred in games.

    I remmember when games where not that main stream and i went to cybercafe's ( even play online there :S:S). Greatest fun to have. Never any problems.

  11. #31
    WoW is the worst of them all that's just how it is.
    considering the amount of players it has compared to most other mmo's in the west it would be weird if it wasn't.

    pretty much every other mmo out there will look like a utopia in comparison.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  12. #32
    No new mmo fosters a good community unless you really dive into those fucking weeds. Gaming culture these days has turned to absolute dogshit.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Communities are the same everywhere. In general that is. Majority of people aren't dicks. It's about some form of confirmation bias and I also think it relies heavily on the recipient claiming its bads attitude. Usually the ones claiming X community of any game is shit it tends to coincide with their thoughts on that the game is shit. Their own frustration with the game is then affecting how they percieve interactions.

    We had a thread yesterday, I think, maybe two days ago. In which a user expressed the frustration in doing some maw event which resulted in them dying and then whispered a random ret Paladin who were there also fighting, why they didn't heal him and let him die.

    It was apparently a sign of how shit the community was because he got an angry response. Not reflecting on how very passive aggressive the inquire sounded which probably sparked the angry response. But it was the problem of the community and not them phrasing a question in a bad way due to frustration.

    I mean I recently started to play LOL and it has the biggest meme about being toxic. Does it live up to the amount of meme? Hell no, do I meet douchebags? Absolutely.. But majority is still good.

    People claiming x is better than y is often taking their personal experience and actions, someone who enjoys the game and treat people well will often have a better experience in all communities, to make a general statement over the majority they have no experience about.

    Then you also have the fact that people tend to perpetuate the common sensus. If you go in thinking a community is shit you will most likely be on guard in preemptive measure which can result in you being a dick and thus you receive a poor attitude back. Voilà, the community is shit as you expected.

    But I've been rambling on for too long. These are my thoughts about it and speaking from my experience throughout all these years I've been gaming in a shit ton of different games and way more years spent behind a computer than is healthy.
    Wise and reasonable as always!

    No need for me to add anything more.

  14. #34
    German WoW community is pretty fine.

  15. #35
    I play ESO, Black Desert, SWTRO, and FF14 on rotation. Never experienced anything as the OP describes in those particular games. It's been years since I had a negative interaction that I can even recall in any game.

    I do not play World of Warcraft, so I don't have a fair judge of that game's current community.

    However, like the players who run into game-affecting bugs or glitches routinely, I think those who experience bad social interactions are often somewhat partially responsible. Or, perhaps, have a particularly skewed view of "bad" social interactions.

    For example, the "no one said anything in the dungeon" complaint is made somewhat frequently. But, what do you actually want people to say? The nature of many of these instance content spaces makes them routine or at the least seen in one form or another.

    It is not reasonable to expect players just running the dungeon to chat you up about your day randomly during content they likely have seen or done before & more or less have gameplay compulsions for joining.

    Should I start telling you about my dog vomiting on the deck after eating some toy/trash found in the grass? Is that a good social experience linked to gaming?

    Maybe you need to feel recognized and want me to ask you about the weather or what you are having for dinner as I tank this dungeon for the 4th time today and 9,999th over the course of 11 years? Come on now.

    You have to be able to read the room, so to speak, in games just as in real life. Sometimes people are just there to get their stuff done for the day and will save the chit-chat about the weather or their cat Pickles for some other time. That's fine. They are playing to enjoy their time too. Maybe that is chatting it up, maybe not.

    Form friendships or seek out like-minded folks away from the gamespace. Random people have no obligation to share your POV, goals, or even be compatible with your mood/ disposition.

    The world is wide, brothers.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-05-01 at 11:46 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Personally I don't consider silent runs antisocial or bad community. Sometimes people just want to farm xp and don't wanna talk. But the novice network is always lively. That and world chat expecially when Odin is up.

    Sure there are assholes occasionally, but from my experience they are the minority.
    Definitely agree. A lot of times, i just want to get my xp for the MSQ queue or 50/60/70 dungeons and just plow through it while listening/watching a video, talk in discord or something and that is likely also the case others in the groups. Ofcourse there are also quite a few groups that talk about something or the tank/healer talking to each other if the pulls are good and things like that, but only rarely really encountered actually toxic people. When people did something stupid in trials or raids, the group usually explains what wiped us and then it's usually a kill afterwards.
    Only really encountered some assholes once or maybe twice (but then i forgot the 2nd) and a very few time your normal braindead idiots that completely ignore any advice (like getting told multiple times to NOT use LB at rank 1 or 2 ASAP against Nabriales and ignoring it)

  17. #37
    The real talk here is that the concept of "community" is absurd to begin with. The idea that an entire population of tens of thousands of unrelated people - or hundreds of thousands, or even millions - are somehow going to have a monolithic attitude and temperament toward you is silly.

    If you want nice people to play with, find a few people you like and start putting together a group of players that you get along with. That goes for any game, anywhere.

  18. #38
    Field Marshal Chilela's Avatar
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    If I were to pick one, I'd probably unironically go with Toontown Rewritten, though it's been years since I've touched it. Outside of a few minor features, the game's basically structured from the ground up to foster cooperation, it's a niche enough title where it doesn't have a massive community, thus decreasing the odds of "toxic" players just by sheer law of numbers (the people playing were generally people that grew up with the original, and sometimes their kids, the Twitch esports generation went to other games), and since it's a private server that literally can't monetize itself, lest they feel the wrath of Disney's legal team, they have zero reason to keep bad people around.

    As a result, at least from what I can remember, pretty much everyone was very, for lack of better term, chill, compared to other MMOs.

  19. #39
    Eh, like others are saying/alluding to; that kind of depends on what you're looking for from a community. These days I don't care about having chatty teammates that want to get to know me in every dungeon, so communities that are outwardly polite to strangers and helpful with new players are basically all that I could ask for. The GW2 and FFXIV communities are pretty good at those, so I'd consider them to be "good" communities even if they certainly have drawbacks.

    But if you want a rowdy and lively public community that interacts openly with each other then you probably won't have the same opinion.

    EDIT: If this post is asking for a game that has the same kind of community feeling that Vanilla had when it was still relatively fresh, then I'd say that I'm not sure that one exists. TBH, I'm not sure if it's possible for that kind of community to exist anymore. It largely depended upon a huge influx of people that were wonder-struck by their first persistent MMO and who were also uncertain about what they were doing and so required cooperation from others.
    Last edited by Rexosaurus; 2021-05-02 at 02:26 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The same is told for the other two, try reading for a change.
    T'is a truly baffling mystery why everyone says WoW is full of toxic players.

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