View Poll Results: Different gear for different role?

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  • Yes

    65 36.93%
  • No

    101 57.39%
  • Not sure

    9 5.11%
  • No opinion

    1 0.57%
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  1. #61
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    As much as I loved ArP in ICC as a Fury Warrior I don't think many or any of these stats should return. Defense in particular was stupid; "Here's a stat that you literally require to do your job as a tank and not get crit. But in order to get better gear by tanking mainly, you need a certain amount of Defense to even get your foot in the door."

    I could see something like multistrike coming back, in a way that makes it attractive for all roles, but I like it better when tanks are crit immune by default. And ArP should stay gone as well due to how it was shit at low levels and OP when you got it closer and closer to 100%.

    Anyone else remember bad tanks in Vanilla and WOTLK who had Quel'Serrar and were all, "I'm crit immune when Quel procs!"?
    Last edited by Freedom; 2021-05-03 at 10:36 PM.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    A simple yet elegant solution would be to add these flavor stats back as tertiaries. That way all gear is the same, but if a +defense tertiary spawns, it'd be just a tad better at tanking.
    Let us buy Avoidance/Speed/Leech with Valor points pls.
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  3. #63
    No, carrying difference gear for different specs is the most stupid thing in wow.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Defense and Hit were the least fun stats in the game, no one liked them. They sucked. People hated them. They were reviled. Livid that they existed. They were the bane of everyone - no one liked them. Ever. Not at all. Not even a little bit. It was universally one of the most despised aspects of the gearing system that wound players up to demanding these stats be done away with so that gear could be opened up and people could go for raw power on gear without having to worry about these arbitrary stat goals which, let's be real, were all automated with addons eventually anyway.
    Considering I'm the living proof of "no one" I think your entire premise is wrong. The current playerbase would definitely blow it out of proportion and call for Ion to be stoned and Kotick to be hung should they ever be introduced again, though.

  5. #65
    Its really sad that tanks that use shields dont get to have tanking stats on them imo wow needs to go back to having gear with stats for specific specs

  6. #66
    I feel like a lot of people didn’t mind one “hit” stat. But needing hit AND expertise was just fucking stupid.

    As far as stats go though what could they even really add? Personally I hated armor pen. Versatility is boring af.

    I know it’s prob near impossible to balance but I wish they made it so you could kinda pick what you wanted. Like as a caster if you wanted to gear for haste to just spam the fuck outta spells that’d be viable but if you instead stacked crit yeah you’d cast slower but they’d hit harder. But it’d be close enough you could just pick what you prefer. That sounds fun to me :P
    Last edited by Monkeymootwo; 2021-05-03 at 11:18 PM.

  7. #67
    High Overlord Jakerel's Avatar
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    With the games current loot systems in place, HELL NO. To keep the number of potential offerings per dungeon equal as they are now, you'd see boss loot tables skyrocket to stupid amounts, which is just silly. With that, if Timmy Plate DPS gets a drop that they don't need, Danny Plate Tank can't take it off of their hands if it's an upgrade for him, as it won't have the defensive tank stats he needs to do his job. If we still had Master Loot rules, it would even worse. Using Mythic as an example, with 4 drops per boss (going with the original 20% per person in the raid, with 20 people is 400% - 4 drops) you'd be screwed if items stats returned to being role directed.

    You'd have 10 total role possibilities across the 4 armor types. Healing and DPS Cloth. Healing, Tank and DPS Leather, Healing and DPS Mail, and Healing, Tank and DPS Plate. If the what ever the primary stat was on the item could still change on what role you were fulfilling, it wouldn't be horrendous, but if that changed too, oh DAYUM.

    Cloth wouldn't matter, as all cloth classes use Int, but you'd still tailor stats towards the two roles. Leather would have Int Leather Healer gear, Int Leather DPS gear, Agi Tank gear, and Agi DPS gear. Mail would have Int Healer gear, Int DPS gear, and Agi DPS gear. Plate would have Int Healer gear, Str Tank gear and Str DPS gear. All-in-all 12 possible combinations, you better hope the damn thing you want drops.
    Nothing ventured, nothing gained

  8. #68
    I don't understand why you'd want to regress to such a horrid system, that only caused frustration to players. Be it lack of offspec gears, tanks and healers having a hard time doing their solo activities, and bags filled with items for every spec.

    So no, it should absolutely not.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    Let us buy Avoidance/Speed/Leech with Valor points pls.
    Ooooh that's a good idea!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    I don't understand why you'd want to regress to such a horrid system, that only caused frustration to players. Be it lack of offspec gears, tanks and healers having a hard time doing their solo activities, and bags filled with items for every spec.

    So no, it should absolutely not.
    The irony of your statement (and most of the responses in this thread tbh) is that with the exception of wasted bag slots for off-spec gear nothing has really changed between Vanilla and current Retail.

    All Blizzard has done, in reality, is rename and change the method of acquisition of talents/desired stats. A tank without enough Defense in Vanilla is equal to a tank without the right combination of "borrowed" powers in Retail. The so-called benefit of the streamlined "regular" gear stats in Retail isn't enough to allow a fury warrior to succeed in higher end content so the only real bonus is not needing to take up extra bag space with off-spec gear. The "borrowed" power(s) system in retail is as alt unfriendly, or more, than anything in Vanilla. And all of this "modern" gearing and stat accumulation is now tied to a time gated MAU hamster wheel system that is reset every patch and continues throughout the course of the current expansion.

    The fact that you, and many others, think this is a better system speaks volumes. It's the same basic concept. It's also arguably worse. It's definitely not better.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    snip
    You're just coming across as silly.

    Let's take vanilla into account, as you mentioned.

    Healers needed +healing gear. Healers needed mp5 or spirit gear, depending on their class. So, with their regular healing gear, if they decided to go farm some mobs, they'd a very boring time, with a very slow clear rate. So, they'd have to pick up offspec items with offensive stats, crit, spell damage, whatever. So, in reality, they'd have to keep several gear combinations for multiple purposes.

    Now? Since everything is standard, their typical Main Stat \ Secondary stat works both ways! Maybe not optimally since some stats still matter more than others, but pretty well enough.

    The fact that you do not understand this simple difference, and decide to call out others with silly reasoning, just makes me scratch my head in confusion. Just go play a tank or healer in vanilla to 'experience' this feature request, and figure it out for yourself.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    You're just coming across as silly.

    Let's take vanilla into account, as you mentioned.

    Healers needed +healing gear. Healers needed mp5 or spirit gear, depending on their class. So, with their regular healing gear, if they decided to go farm some mobs, they'd a very boring time, with a very slow clear rate. So, they'd have to pick up offspec items with offensive stats, crit, spell damage, whatever. So, in reality, they'd have to keep several gear combinations for multiple purposes.

    Now? Since everything is standard, their typical Main Stat \ Secondary stat works both ways! Maybe not optimally since some stats still matter more than others, but pretty well enough.

    The fact that you do not understand this simple difference, and decide to call out others with silly reasoning, just makes me scratch my head in confusion. Just go play a tank or healer in vanilla to 'experience' this feature request, and figure it out for yourself.
    That particular aspect that you're now focused on could have been remedied in a myriad of ways without the entire MAU "borrowed" power hamster wheel in Retail. In fact dual spec largely solved it. And It doesn't change the fact that all they have done is change the process / placement of optimal stats from the original talent trees / gear stats to a convoluted borrowed powered system.

    When they first revamped, I mean destroyed, the talent tree system the corporate line was a combo of the choices not being meaningful (cookie cutter specs) and/or boring (passive talents). Which was then replaced with new talents every 15 levels and later borrowed powers on top of that which, you guessed it, were also an illusionary boring choice since there was still only one cookie cutter optimal choice.

    My very first character was a resto shaman in 2005. I know what it was like. My friend recruited me for his guild and told me I was going to be a healer. Not knowing better, WoW being my first MMORPG experience, I levelled to 60 as a healer. I know what the limitations of that were. And in every expansion since, up to Shadowlands which I haven't played, including the borrowed powers ones I levelled as elemental while taking healer borrowed power stats along the way because it was still more efficient to do that than level as a true resto.

    While the viability of tanks / healer farming has improved the ultimate solution implemented by Blizzard, in my opinion, is an example of the cure being worse than the disease.

  13. #73
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Nonononomonononono. I don't want to have to farm multiple sets of gear again. And have my entire inventory just full of gear for 2 specs in pvp, and 3 specs for pve. Please just no. And libram/quiver? No thank you. Less items that you would be able to trade with other people in your raid.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-05-04 at 04:56 AM.

  14. #74
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
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    What we need is Reforging back. And Profession combat perks. And Profession specializations that lead to end-game gear. And being able to enchant every piece of gear. And the removal of Versatility. And stats like Hit, Resistance, Parry/Dodge, Armor/Spell Pen, Defense, and Hit should be brought back. And Wands, Bows, Guns, Librams, etc. should be brought back. And combat Glyphs should be brought back too.

    That's a good start.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolascancer View Post
    Balancing the old stats was a pain and stupid like my shadowpriest in wotlk took forever to drop the hit trinket from naxx. HOWEVER it made the game feel better to me. the current set of stats is boring as fuck, like someone else said the gear is inconsequential now. like its an ilvl upgrade so its probably an upgrade- specifically with how mythic+ works- oooo this belt is the BiS belt for the ENTIRE GODAMN EXPANSION, i just have to come back and get it each patch.. stupid..

    I do wish parry/block/dodge were on gear, i wish reforging was still in the game, i wish mana pools werent static(hell maybe they arent anymore, i stopped healing after wrath when they made it not fun) versatility is a trash stat and i can't believe they ever added it and kept it. mastery is really the only interesting stat and that only applies if your spec's mastery is actually good- they could do a lot more with mastery than they do.

    The game will never add more stats though, that's just how it is.
    Don't forget, we even have HUGE DR on all mastery now too, and it applies in torghast as well.
    So even if mastery is good for your spec, you get so little from any mastery you do gain. My mastery on my hunter is BiS heroic raid level, forgot the % as I haven't played in over a week, and last torghast run I done, I had like around 120% mastery from anima power things, and my mastery was only at like 30 - 40% from about mid 20s.

    I wish gear stats were more interesting too. Leech is an example of a bonus stat that could be made interesting and be made a secondary stat; like instead of healing you for x% of the damage you do, it could have a % based proc rate, that deals damage equal to a % of the damage of your last attack, extra leech increases the % of both.

    Or instead of changing the secondary stats, having more risk/reward effects, similar to corruption from BFA but without being OPAF, could be an angle to look at too.
    Overall, I liked what the corruption system was trying to do, by adding power for other various drawbacks, but even after all their balancing, it wasn't implemented as well as it could have been. Something like that could be explored, effects could change / be added each major patch (or maybe after a set period after each patch to give people time to replace their current items) or each expansion.

  16. #76
    Pandaren Monk Chrno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Defense and Hit were the least fun stats in the game, no one liked them. They sucked. People hated them. They were reviled. Livid that they existed. They were the bane of everyone - no one liked them. Ever. Not at all. Not even a little bit. It was universally one of the most despised aspects of the gearing system that wound players up to demanding these stats be done away with so that gear could be opened up and people could go for raw power on gear without having to worry about these arbitrary stat goals which, let's be real, were all automated with addons eventually anyway.

    People will not ever actively engage with so much crunching of numbers with gear - they'll just get an addon to tell them what pieces of gear they own are optimal to equip, and then whatever interaction you have with the gear gets thrown out the window.

    And hell, even if you forced addons to not mess with calculating stats on gear, people would just throw character info into sites. So okay, maybe you shut down those sites, then people with better math or more patience to do all the math manually suddenly get an edge in damage-wise. Guilds with those who calculate, what, are they expected to do it for the whole guild now? This kind of angle on Defense and Hit Caps is absurd. There's no good reality that comes around as a result of this. People WILL find a way to game the system and make it unfun for everyone, putting aside that Defense and Hit are insanely unfun just by themselves. But even for people who would normally find any kind of enjoyment in Def/Hit/Exp, others will ruin it for those people as well.

    But, to directly answer the question.
    With Personal Loot in the game, gear can be as specific as it needs to be, when it works (and lord I can't stress that enough).

    That said, for ease of comprehension and simplicity it's probably best there aren't too many different stats to learn.

    The essential secondary stats that are in the game cover nearly all essential ground that is needed as they are.

    Any other class specific interaction can be baked into passives that interact with established stats, so there's no real need to reintroduce other misc stats when a conversion stat passive can do the job.

    There's a reason the Defense and Hit/Exp and Res and Pen and Regen stats and all that went out the window -- they were inferior design, they were automated and not interacted with anyway, they weren't fun, they were a waste of dev/balance time, so they were axed.
    I disagree with pretty much all you wrote there ....

    Crafting a tank in Classic is SO much more fun because you have options. Having 3 gear set (Defense, Offence, Mix) is amazingly fun if you get it right! I really dislike the way retail gearing works and think im not alone in that.
    Warrior, getting my face smashed in because I love it

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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    I disagree with pretty much all you wrote there ....

    Crafting a tank in Classic is SO much more fun because you have options. Having 3 gear set (Defense, Offence, Mix) is amazingly fun if you get it right! I really dislike the way retail gearing works and think im not alone in that.
    You are not alone, but a vocal minority.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Adding crap like defense rating that literally makes you not able to tank unless you had the rating for it is just a horrible design and its good bliz gone away from it.
    This is the definite truth.

    It holds some RPG value, but as a gatekeeper to content, it managed to be an annoyance at best. In a multiplayer game meant to be designed around people working together, having an arbitrary "You can't tank until you hit this mark" value just made tanks (an already scarce resource) even less able to be found.

    In today's game, it would be one of many nails in a coffin the game makes for itself.

    If they could somehow make defensive stats valuable to dps/healers, you could maybe make this system work, but unless you make boss abilities able to one shot/combo non-defensively-statted characters, that just won't happen - And even then, you'd have to make it immune to health-soaking. (Stacking stamina until the one shot is no longer a one shot.)
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-05-04 at 07:31 AM.
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  19. #79
    Pandaren Monk Chrno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    You are not alone, but a vocal minority.
    Is that the way you always reply to people?

    I do in fact enjoy a good discussion like this if people ask me about it. I don't shout it off the roofs but I think it's an interesting topic with many different opinions.
    Wether i am part of the minority i don't know. Classic with all it's good and bad things was pretty popular so i wouldn't be too surprised if the oldschool RPG character building is more popular then you expect it too be.

    @Poopsnacker, your on an open forum so try to be open for other peoples opinions.
    Warrior, getting my face smashed in because I love it

    "The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Defense and Hit were the least fun stats in the game, no one liked them. They sucked. People hated them. They were reviled. Livid that they existed.
    As a tank I liked them.

    TBC stats were near perfect. Give me back my 102.4% avoidance and my block value.
    Last edited by ReVnX; 2021-05-04 at 07:57 AM.

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