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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    You pay to be able to play the game. In other words you pay for the privilege of participation. You are entitled to nothing. Dont like it? Leave.
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    The game is filled with content like this.
    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.

  2. #122
    It's nice that Blizzard makes their game so thoroughly unpleasant that I don't even have to consider coming back. Keeps things simple.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    I take it you've moved on? So why you still herw complaining?
    No one's complaining. And no one's giving you an award for defending the game either.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    It would be nice if Blizzard would stop catering to the 1% and start putting their resources into systems designed to help the 99% of players who aren't elite.

    I get that this company is American and America is all about building systems to perpetuate the existence of an undeserved elite, but c'mon already.
    Nice us vs them mentality, sounds quite American as well. Less ppl than you think are proper casuals. I'm a casual player, I do a few 15s on a couple toons each week. I invest about 6hrs max weekly. I wouldn't wanna play this game without a proper metric to evaluate ppl. I don't want to feel like im wasting time. As soon as I feel like someone is wasting the limited time I have playing a video game, I'm gonna log off. If you talk about some super casual ppl that don't give a fuck about character power/tactics/speed, then all I can respond with is a hard truth. M+ isn't made for that kind of player. It's a time trial. It's competitive. Don't do it if you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    As sad as it sounds, this will very likely be the case. Yet more catering to the hardcore and more perpetuating of the competitive e-sport mindset. Good to know that Blizzard doesn't want my sub anymore, won't have to waste the money.
    Great. Stay lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    I haven't done keys since Legion.
    Thank you for your valid opinion Kevin, you may sniff the glue now.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.
    Because it doesn’t give the best gear?

    Because that is kinda RPG staple. Harder content gives better rewards.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    "Every group worth joining" lmao, if you don't understand that elitist attitude ALREADY I don't know what else to say. I have very successful groups who don't care about raider IO at all. But, I guess it does because you said so, huh? XD
    What's your point? All you do is whine, moan, and cite personal anecdotes. That doesn't make what the guy said less true. The armory API won't go away, people will always find a way to screen other players and weed out the undesireds, and we will always have to jump through that hoop. Get a grip and accept that the entire world has changed drastically since vanilla. Games are played differently. Your pointless whining about inescapable realities is tiring to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    +1



    +1

    same, just UNSUBBED
    Great news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The "shitters" as you so mildly put it, also pay for the game and help fund its content. You might think it's a good thing when we're all driven off, but long term I doubt it would work out well for you guys.
    I also pay for the content, so why am I suddenly expected to carry bad players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I hate this addition to WoW. We don't need a built-in Raider.io score, we already have an addon that does most of that for us. I see a lot of negatives here without really a lot of positives to be gained from it.

    - New/returning players are going to have a far harder time finding groups for M+ keys with this, especially as the player base has a tendency to overdo their asks. This will probably help out for higher level key groups, but with this implementation it will quickly become a requirement for lower level groups as well. Given that the scores aren't shown for alts and some people currently spam run lower keys for Valor, it's not hard to envision a scenario where a 60 with the proper gear has a ton of issues finding a group for a +2/3 because higher level players are signing up. This will only get worse if Blizz resets the M+ scores with each major patch.

    - Plus, you have to remember that the list appears to be sortable, and group leaders will almost certainly then sort by that list. Which means that most groups will fill up by the leader choosing whomever is at the top of that list, with a small chance for some groups to skip that top entry if they aren't part of the current meta. In essence, that means that the current meta will wind up getting higher keys & higher scores, thus further reinforcing the idea that WoW has "right & wrong classes/specs" to play.

    - Even if you are a fan of this system as it is currently set up, one other thing to remember here is that Raider.io as an outside source has the capability to adjust their scoring quickly if certain dynamics change within the community. Constant deaths? Failed keys? People only getting their scores on easy weeks? Raider.io has the capability to quickly change the scoring setup if needed/desired. Blizz on the other hand is a large developer who already has enough trouble changing direction when things change and the community has needs. Much like the group finder was compared to oQueue, this feels like the sort of thing Blizz will set up once with half of what it could be and forget it exists while the community asks for changes.

    - It's also worth considering how this furthers toxicity in the community. Just look at the comments section anytime it becomes a forum for debate. Some people discuss the good/bad of the system, but it constantly seems to devolve into a "git gud" discussion where the higher level players say things like "Dont like it? Leave."
    K.

    /10char

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.
    Keep victimizing yourself please. The game sucks for all of us currently, and an m+ scoring system isn't remotely the issue.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Because it doesn’t give the best gear?

    Because that is kinda RPG staple. Harder content gives better rewards.
    Another RPG staple is to be able to grind for rewards too. If a boss was too hard, you could go back and grind to get stronger and then come back later. When the only thing available is butt-clenching, stressfully difficult content that relies on having the right people around at the right times, what's the point if you're not going to get anything out of your time?

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Another RPG staple is to be able to grind for rewards too. If a boss was too hard, you could go back and grind to get stronger and then come back later. When the only thing available is butt-clenching, stressfully difficult content that relies on having the right people around at the right times, what's the point if you're not going to get anything out of your time?
    You do easier dungeons or easier raid difficulties or earlier bosses farming gear to get more powerful to overcome it.

    Then, eventually you have to face the eventuality that you and yourself group is either good enough or not good enough to beat your current challenge.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    You do easier dungeons or easier raid difficulties or earlier bosses farming gear to get more powerful to overcome it.

    Then, eventually you have to face the eventuality that you and yourself group is either good enough or not good enough to beat your current challenge.
    When your only literal options in the game are "overcome the challenge" or "don't", and there is absolutely nothing else to do beyond that, don't be surprised if people just end up leaving when they feel they have no place in the game.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    When your only literal options in the game are "overcome the challenge" or "don't", and there is absolutely nothing else to do beyond that, don't be surprised if people just end up leaving when they feel they have no place in the game.
    The game has mostly been that way.

    If you run into a wall in a raid, and you’ve farmed as much gear as possible and still can’t beat it, you’re done.

    It was true in TBC, wrath, cata, etc. as well.

  11. #131
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    So, normal dungeon design can never be expected again here, I'm afraid there is nothing more to save, direction and degree of damage has too specifically designated milestone... well...

    Their work has long been going in reverse order:
    "original design solution" (in most cases "lazy" automation)
    .→ (influence, requirements, dependency)
    ..→ changing dungeons' organization
    ...→ changing dungeons' design
    ....→ changing classes' design for new dungeons' one
    .....→ screwing up private temporary systems (crutches and patches) replacing by them another/next bit of remained basic control system (characteristics)

    and explanation, of why it's wrong and that it doesn't work this way, there is absolutely no strength or desire to give...
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2021-05-04 at 10:55 AM.

  12. #132
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Before developers have destroyed realms and communities with all that cross-realms match making, when WoW was a social MMORPG (no, discord chat full of memes doesn't count as "social"), what you are saying would be the norm. Players would give a chance to other players, add them to friends list, joined same guilds and so on.

    But today it is all about score. Players are just numbers. This change further cements direction of WoW. It further separates hardcore and casual players, making it even harder for casual players to do content.
    "People arent social anymore, except when they are but that one doesnt count."
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  13. #133
    The game does not need you to sustain itself. Move on if it sucks. If anything you might get a small voice by voting with your wallet.

  14. #134
    Stood in the Fire lukyl's Avatar
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    If all this is ruining the game for "casual players" then as a casual player feel free to sort your list by lowest scores first and go nuts doing all your M+ with a rag tag group of people who may or may not waste your 2hours of playtime you have in your casual game time.

  15. #135
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    So basically you're not getting into, nor will anyone join your, pug groups 2-3 weeks into the patch unless you've been grinding M+ the whole time.

    Great.
    Yep, same as it ever was.

    That new affix with rng powers is just gonna push meta setups even further, lol, EJs have fun.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    The game has mostly been that way.

    If you run into a wall in a raid, and you’ve farmed as much gear as possible and still can’t beat it, you’re done.

    It was true in TBC, wrath, cata, etc. as well.
    There were always options outside of raiding too though, like PvP that eventually yielded decent gear as you worked at it. I'd be happy if we had that back, but even PvP in SL requires you to be an ultra-skilled, ultra-connected person to be worthwhile.

    If someone like me who isn't that is not going to feel welcome here, or given a game as well, then what else is there to do but stay unsubbed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    The game does not need you to sustain itself. Move on if it sucks. If anything you might get a small voice by voting with your wallet.
    Already have. Been unsubbed since the SL prepatch event. Just been looking for a reason to come back, and all I get is snark, derision and hate. Would love to come back if I knew it wouldn't be a lonely and depressing experience.
    Last edited by Tadkins; 2021-05-04 at 08:28 PM.

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