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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    If that was true then you would enjoy unlocking things over time, by continuing to play
    Grinding chores is obviously not the same as being able to simply play the single activity you still enjoy.
    Why do you need this explained? Nobody sane likes a virtual job gatekeeping the fun gameplay.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Im curious what the actual benefit is though to anyone but 'the small fraction' are though? I mean, its not like y'all are going to suddenly stop telling everyone to L2P or whatever? Like, what is it we're actually getting out of this? Has the difficulty or challenge of all content below that point been lowered or something? Or do you mean the challenge goes up because the hardcore no longer need to do their busy work? Like how does this help someone running their +6 anyway? What do you mean here? It seems like im not really getting much out of this deal, whilst youre making out like a bandit.
    It doesn't effect them in the slightest. Its a net neutral to them. I figured it would just let people focus on the content they find most enjoyable to them it isn't a this helps or hinders the whole playerbase kind of idea.

  3. #43
    That's a terrible idea for a subscription based game. Instead of the best players taking the longest to ultimately reach incredibly challenging goals, they would finish first and then quit until the next expansion.

    Trying to think of if other video games had this model. Beat the old school rs inferno? Congratz, you're now 200m maxed in all skills and we'll go ahead and give you all the quest points too and 100 billion gold while you're at it. Game done. Grind over.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-05-03 at 02:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Same here. Dunno why this is wizard mode.
    Maybe it's a play on the virgin-wizard meme of yore where it would take you ages to get there, but if you did there is some kind of pay-off? Though I don't think it works as well here.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Would be nice.

    But id settle with just removing all the time gatings.
    I had forgotten...but does anyone remember the time when Blizzard was fighting a PR reputation that WoW was the game people lost their kids, parents, spouses, and lives to?

    I know we harp on Blizzard for "money grubbing time gating" now, but there was a time when they started adding caps just to keep some people from killing themselves.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    This simply isn't how the game works. You enjoy playing because there's something to do. If you run out of things to do, you won't enjoy playing.

    Giving players everything, removes everything worth doing, leaving nothing. Everyone could have just stopped and enjoyed Island Expeditions for the instanced spammable grindfests they were if that's what people wanted - But nobody did, because Island Expeditions had no rewards. Hell, if it weren't for the AP gain, nobody would ever have touched Islands.
    actually, i wound up doing islands quite a bit as they were simply a different way to level alts. it gave me more variation in leveling. choreghast would be better if it had a path for leveling alts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    That's a terrible idea for a subscription based game. Instead of the best players taking the longest to ultimately reach incredibly challenging goals, they would finish first and then quit until the next expansion.

    Trying to think of if other video games had this model. Beat the old school rs inferno? Congratz, you're now 200m maxed in all skills and we'll go ahead and give you all the quest points too and 100 billion gold while you're at it. Game done. Grind over.
    diablo i had this model. everyone quit and begged blizz to stop everyone from hacking.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    actually, i wound up doing islands quite a bit as they were simply a different way to level alts. it gave me more variation in leveling. choreghast would be better if it had a path for leveling alts.
    Which doesn't change the fact that they were universally despised.

    Every game mode has SOMEONE who likes it. You could find someone who would play the ridiculously hard old games which didn't intend to have a solution either. That doesn't mean the mode is fun, likeable, or even relatively worthwhile to do. Most would argue that the ridiculously hard old games are not worthwhile whatsoever.

    In a discussion about "Wizard" mode being just another difficulty mode and not anything new, this is no different than Island Expeditions. No, "Ultra Mega Hard Super Mode" would not have made people want, or like, Islands any more than they did, because difficulty doesn't make people enjoy games. It was just not enjoyable, and if you didn't enjoy the original version, you aren't going to enjoy a HARDER version that you only need to clear once and then invalidates ALL other forms of content in the game.

    Why even keep playing at that point?
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Which doesn't change the fact that they were universally despised.

    Every game mode has SOMEONE who likes it. You could find someone who would play the ridiculously hard old games which didn't intend to have a solution either. That doesn't mean the mode is fun, likeable, or even relatively worthwhile to do. Most would argue that the ridiculously hard old games are not worthwhile whatsoever.

    In a discussion about "Wizard" mode being just another difficulty mode and not anything new, this is no different than Island Expeditions. No, "Ultra Mega Hard Super Mode" would not have made people want, or like, Islands any more than they did, because difficulty doesn't make people enjoy games. It was just not enjoyable, and if you didn't enjoy the original version, you aren't going to enjoy a HARDER version that you only need to clear once and then invalidates ALL other forms of content in the game.

    Why even keep playing at that point?
    The idea is it "invalidates" content that crowd would never of enjoyed. When you crushed the hardest bosses over a decade the idea of butchering world mobs loses its flare...

  9. #49
    Dreadlord Cuppy's Avatar
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    Yes, add this mode where you can ”beat the game” so you can gtfo and play something that actually is competetive and hard. Also add that everything there ever was, is and will be is granted to you via mail, all the mounts and transmogs. Totally supporting this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
    Mr. Smith about the cost of Triple-spec
    3k gold right off the bat, about 5 silver a week later.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Curious, why is it called "Wizard" mode?
    Next -> next -> next -> next -> finish.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    The idea is it "invalidates" content that crowd would never of enjoyed. When you crushed the hardest bosses over a decade the idea of butchering world mobs loses its flare...
    If you didn't enjoy the content to begin with, why would you like the content when it's difficult?

    More importantly, why do you need the power? You don't like the content it would let you do anyway, and it would only let you do content you DON'T like faster.

    Sounds like you just need to stop playing because you don't like the game. Greater difficulty, or being handed everything in the game over an arbitrary step up in difficulty, isn't going to solve that for you.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-05-03 at 09:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  12. #52
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Isn't that mythic?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by testsubjectzz View Post
    Like other post, if you unlock everything then why would you continue playing.
    This is a weird argument. Do you stop everything just because you've unlocked it? Is that the goal?

    Ie, cataclysm expac. I finished ie BiS'd several characters and still played, because prior to dragon soul that expansion was damn near perfect. And just fun to play, regardless of how much I had left to accomplish.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    If you didn't enjoy the content to begin with, why would you like the content when it's difficult?

    More importantly, why do you need the power? You don't like the content it would let you do anyway, and it would only let you do content you DON'T like faster.

    Sounds like you just need to stop playing because you don't like the game. Greater difficulty, or being handed everything in the game over an arbitrary step up in difficulty, isn't going to solve that for you.
    What kind of weird ass logic are you using?

    I enjoy harder parts of the game and find simplistic parts tedious... what does me wanting to just do mythic style content have to do with me enjoying the game? I'm suggesting a mode that simply lets me do what I enjoy... I don't understand what point your trying to make.

  15. #55
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That is no longer an economically feasible model for long-term projects like MMOs.

    You cannot create enough meaningful content quickly enough to keep both casual and hardcore players engaged purely through entertainment value - not if you want to make a buck in the process, anyway. That's why everything is now built with long-term retention models in mind that use gamification and gating to find the sweet spot between the allure of enjoyable content and the continuous time investment of a progression model. I.e., they are trying to use the few good parts to keep you playing through the bad parts, which exist only to keep you occupied and stretch out time so you don't exhaust the good parts too quickly.

    Everything gets stale eventually, and with the overabundance of alternative forms of entertainment, even stellar products will exhaust their audience quickly without a retention mechanic.
    How dare you bring facts of business to the table when these people have FEELINGS about these things???





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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Next -> next -> next -> next -> finish.
    Didn't tell me anything tbh.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Didn't tell me anything tbh.
    I was thinking about a really bad movie called the wizard figured it would be a tongue in cheek name.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098663/

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    The idea is it "invalidates" content that crowd would never of enjoyed. When you crushed the hardest bosses over a decade the idea of butchering world mobs loses its flare...
    So because you don't like ANY of the game, they should make a mode that lets you skip it?

    No, you should just stop playing. You don't like the game - Why should they do anything for you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    What kind of weird ass logic are you using?

    I enjoy harder parts of the game and find simplistic parts tedious... what does me wanting to just do mythic style content have to do with me enjoying the game? I'm suggesting a mode that simply lets me do what I enjoy... I don't understand what point your trying to make.
    If you don't enjoy the game's mechanics, you don't enjoy the game.

    Asking them to make bigger mechanics isn't going to make you like them more, and they have no interest in helping you "skip" the "tedious" parts. Their game isn't made to be skipped.

    Calling that "weird ass logic" just makes you sound silly. It's the most straightforward answer I can give.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-05-04 at 06:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I had forgotten...but does anyone remember the time when Blizzard was fighting a PR reputation that WoW was the game people lost their kids, parents, spouses, and lives to?

    I know we harp on Blizzard for "money grubbing time gating" now, but there was a time when they started adding caps just to keep some people from killing themselves.
    pft, those fools wouldve killed themselves one way or another anyway. If a person doesn't have the common sense to not stay awake for 72+ hours and die of a heart attack then its not a question of if, but when that person will hit the dirt.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    pft, those fools wouldve killed themselves one way or another anyway. If a person doesn't have the common sense to not stay awake for 72+ hours and die of a heart attack then its not a question of if, but when that person will hit the dirt.
    While true, it still is a bad rap for Blizzard to have multiple confirmed cases of "just one more game" on their game causing someone's death.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

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