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  1. #1

    Do you believe there is real merit to controlling if a movie can exist?

    I used to be one of those people that thought cancel culture or censorship regarding artistic freedom in art like cinema or video games was stupid. And if what's there isn't illegal, people should be allowed to express whatever they like. I laughed when people made an uproar of how violent media can influence people in dark ways.

    But thanks to horror Youtuber "SpookyRice," I've been exposed to a broader range of the ugly side of movies. Like I always knew certain things like Cannibal Holocaust and Hostel existed and looked down on them, but it's insane how deep the well goes in the torture-porn horror genre. After a while, you don't merely feel nauseous to the bone, it really makes you rethink your values on censorship and necessity.

    A lot of these movies should simply not exist but are shielded by the notion they're "just movies." The worst ones ultimately do face documented legal battles but they pretty much never win out, and at worst the movies become hard to obtain but aren't illegal to get. In particular, I was so baffled when I found out the entire "I Spit on Your Grave" series of rape fetish torture porn movies were being discounted and sold on Playstation Network right now as part of a sale.

    These sorts of movies are different from Saw or the other horror movies you see represented in Dead By Daylight. There's nothing cool, amusing, or fantasy-like in them. I believe the very nature of these movies can influence people, as Roger Ebert attested to in some of his theater experiences, noting people actually seemed *turned on* by depictions in movies like The Last House on the Left.


    I want to know your feelings on the matter here. Do you genuinely find value in barring the production of movies depending on the content being too graphic or heinous?
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2021-05-03 at 02:52 PM.

  2. #2
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    There is some merit but not in the case of overly graphic horror movies but in the case of things like birth of the nation or other movies that are just propaganda to help hate groups recruit.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.hist...-a-nation-film

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    snip
    People "like/fascinated" to watch violence. Getting rid of those types of movies isn't going to reduce that inclination in people. More accurate this genre of movie rose to popularity due to people's innate violent and voyeuristic tendencies.
    To relate more closely to something you may understand, it's like the 90's/00's push to ban violent videogames. Or if you prefer reading it's the Cather in the Rye ban push of the 60's/70's.

    The book isn't the problem, it's the people. And it really isn't a problem unless those people have mental deficiencies. 99.9999% of people can watch these movies, get their itch scratched, and go back to Starbucks for their white foam latte the next day.

  4. #4
    Unless you have some way of controlling it absolutely then you are going to fail as people are inclined to rebel. so no not really. and a person's notion of what is acceptable and what is not is subjective and therefore not correct resulting in a tyranny of sorts.. which is innately bad no?
    There's also nothing stopping Blizzard from resurrecting both Arthas and Archimonde and turning them into super saiyans so that they can fuse and fight Sargeras

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    To relate more closely to something you may understand, it's like the 90's/00's push to ban violent videogames.
    the worst of video games, in the form of Manhunt, Custer's Revenge, and Hatred, don't even come close to the worst in film. There is a disproportionate gap in seeing gore with real people compared to games where there's always a noticeable fictional feel.

  6. #6
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    I believe the very nature of these movies can influence people, as Roger Ebert attested to in some of his theater experiences
    Roger Ebert was kind of a nutcase and the more you look at his accounts of stuff like this the more you start to see that.

    NGL me and my bro watched I spit on your grave (the modern remake) and i couldn't make it to the end, i got nauseous and had to leave the room, but the rape and revenge genre is pretty massive and has been around round for a very long time. There's really no actual evidence to support it has lead to anything bad, it's all just pointless conjecture.

  7. #7
    If it doesn't break the law, doesn't put non-trained professionals lives at risk, then who cares? So long as all the hardcore shit is fake, what's the problem?

    If it bothers you, just don't watch it. Otherwise you're seeking to ruin enjoyment for others and people will hate you for it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I want to know your feelings on the matter here. Do you genuinely find value in barring the production of movies depending on the content being too graphic or heinous?
    I haven't seen anything worse than hostel, which I wouldn't want to ban, but if there are movies out there that goes way further in that direction I wouldn't mind banning them.

    There is no value in only depicting horrific acts and if someone would like to get kicks out of it then movies like hostel should do just fine.

    If it doesn't, then that person has got some deep seated issues and shouldn't have a media outlet telling him those thoughts are shared and acceptable.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the worst of video games, in the form of Manhunt, Custer's Revenge, and Hatred, don't even come close to the worst in film. There is a disproportionate gap in seeing gore with real people compared to games where there's always a noticeable fictional feel.
    In the late 80s, and 00's for the games you mentioned... But gaming fidelity is always getting better, I'd say many games are more real looking than the cgi used in the 90s and early 00s. At some point that line will be blurred completely.

  10. #10
    There is no such thing as movies that are too "graphic or heinous". As long as they are fictions. There are movies i can barely handle, other are just trash with tons of gore in them, some are just about sexual degenerate fantasies, but as long as it's all fiction and special effects, it has all the rights to exist. The killing and eating of live animals in Cannibal Holocaust walks a tin line, and you can easily argue about them going too far in that case.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    NGL me and my bro watched I spit on your grave (the modern remake) and i couldn't make it to the end, i got nauseous and had to leave the room, but the rape and revenge genre is pretty massive and has been around round for a very long time. There's really no actual evidence to support it has lead to anything bad, it's all just pointless conjecture.
    I mean, why do you think they exist? You yourself stated you had to get the fuck out because it was that vile. But out there, there's someone or waves of people that probably finds it enjoyable or funny. What kind of person do you think that must be? Aren't you ever concerned such a person is just on the edge of causing harm and such a movie is nurturing their desires until they inevitably explode?

    Remember I'm not talking about thing like the aforementioned Saw or Halloween or Chucky. But the worst shit.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2021-05-03 at 03:46 PM.

  12. #12
    Censorship leads to exclusion which leads to tension which leads to action and animosity among groups...
    All it does is give unnecessary "us vs them" attitude which is already a big problem nowadays.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I mean, why do you think they exist? You yourself stated you had to get the fuck out because it was that vile. But out there, there's someone or waves of people that probably finds it enjoyable or funny. What kind of person do you think that must be? Aren't you ever concerned such a person is just on the edge of causing harm and such a movie is nurturing their outlet?
    Can't say i see a problem with someone nurturing their outlet. It's essentially just body horror, people can be into that and not be into wanting to hurt people.

  14. #14
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Allow me to present a somewhat counterintuitive counterpoint. On the surface, movies like this can make you ask, "Why was this made? It's just violent splatterporn for the sake of being violent splatterporn." But at the same time, these movies, games, etc. can have a positive impact by giving people outlets. Finding productive ways for people to 'blow off steam,' especially when they have dangerous pathologies, without causing actual people harm, is an approach that's increasingly picked up steam over the years.

    I say, if "I Spit On Your Grave," or "A Serbian Film," or "Hostel," or "Saw," or what-have-you, lets some sicko play out his fantasies in his head and use them as an outlet so he doesn't perpetrate on actual people, just one dude out there among the billions on the planet, those movies more than justified themselves (operating under the dangerous precedent that a movie must justify its existence beyond entertainment/artistic value).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Censorship leads to exclusion which leads to tension which leads to action and animosity among groups...
    All it does is give unnecessary "us vs them" attitude which is already a big problem nowadays.
    do you think that applies in this scenario?

    I can see crusading for something like LGBT or homosexual issues/rights in a movie. But if some director's torture rape fantasy movie was being blocked by film committees and he complained he wasn't being allowed to express himself, do you think there are people that are going to stand up for such a thing unironically?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I used to be one of those people that thought cancel culture or censorship regarding artistic freedom in art like cinema or video games was stupid. And if what's there isn't illegal, people should be allowed to express whatever they like. I laughed when people made an uproar of how violent media can influence people in dark ways.

    But thanks to horror Youtuber "SpookyRice," I've been exposed to a broader range of the ugly side of movies. Like I always knew certain things like Cannibal Holocaust and Hostel existed and looked down on them, but it's insane how deep the well goes in the torture-porn horror genre. After a while, you don't merely feel nauseous to the bone, it really makes you rethink your values on censorship and necessity.

    A lot of these movies should simply not exist but are shielded by the notion they're "just movies." The worst ones ultimately do face documented legal battles but they pretty much never win out, and at worst the movies become hard to obtain but aren't illegal to get. In particular, I was so baffled when I found out the entire "I Spit on Your Grave" series of rape fetish torture porn movies were being discounted and sold on Playstation Network right now as part of a sale.

    These sorts of movies are different from Saw or the other horror movies you see represented in Dead By Daylight. There's nothing cool, amusing, or fantasy-like in them. I believe the very nature of these movies can influence people, as Roger Ebert attested to in some of his theater experiences, noting people actually seemed *turned on* by depictions in movies like The Last House on the Left.


    I want to know your feelings on the matter here. Do you genuinely find value in barring the production of movies depending on the content being too graphic or heinous?
    Or you could, and it’s just a thought, not watch the fictional story that turns your stomach.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    do you think that applies in this scenario?

    I can see crusading for something like LGBT or homosexual issues/rights in a movie. But if some director's torture rape fantasy movie was being blocked by film committees and he complained he wasn't being allowed to express himself, do you think there are people that are going to stand up for such a thing unironically?
    How would they block him from making his movie? It’s not hard or expensive to do so these days...

  17. #17
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    do you think that applies in this scenario?

    I can see crusading for something like LGBT or homosexual issues/rights in a movie. But if some director's torture rape fantasy movie was being blocked by film committees and he complained he wasn't being allowed to express himself, do you think there are people that are going to stand up for such a thing unironically?
    Not an easy subject and really something with too many facets to answer it definitively. In this special case? If a committee blocks it, he would film it illegally as there will be ppl to put up the money for that kind of thing.

    I find Torture "porn" sickening...I know that films like Hostel or even worse "A serbian film" exists and what they are about...and I just will not watch them. I guess even Saw is too much for me. I draw the line around Zombie gore like in the Zack Snyder remake of Walking Dead for example.

    Some things are illegal and that is good. People do them still...and I would not advocate by that reason to make these things legal.

    Last but not least: People didn't need video games or fucked up movies to commit the worst atrocities you can imagine in the last 2000 and more years ^^

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    do you think that applies in this scenario?

    I can see crusading for something like LGBT or homosexual issues/rights in a movie. But if some director's torture rape fantasy movie was being blocked by film committees and he complained he wasn't being allowed to express himself, do you think there are people that are going to stand up for such a thing unironically?
    Do you have a point?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I used to be one of those people that thought cancel culture or censorship regarding artistic freedom in art like cinema or video games was stupid. And if what's there isn't illegal, people should be allowed to express whatever they like. I laughed when people made an uproar of how violent media can influence people in dark ways.

    But thanks to horror Youtuber "SpookyRice," I've been exposed to a broader range of the ugly side of movies. Like I always knew certain things like Cannibal Holocaust and Hostel existed and looked down on them, but it's insane how deep the well goes in the torture-porn horror genre. After a while, you don't merely feel nauseous to the bone, it really makes you rethink your values on censorship and necessity.

    A lot of these movies should simply not exist but are shielded by the notion they're "just movies." The worst ones ultimately do face documented legal battles but they pretty much never win out, and at worst the movies become hard to obtain but aren't illegal to get. In particular, I was so baffled when I found out the entire "I Spit on Your Grave" series of rape fetish torture porn movies were being discounted and sold on Playstation Network right now as part of a sale.

    These sorts of movies are different from Saw or the other horror movies you see represented in Dead By Daylight. There's nothing cool, amusing, or fantasy-like in them. I believe the very nature of these movies can influence people, as Roger Ebert attested to in some of his theater experiences, noting people actually seemed *turned on* by depictions in movies like The Last House on the Left.


    I want to know your feelings on the matter here. Do you genuinely find value in barring the production of movies depending on the content being too graphic or heinous?
    Generaly i am on the side, that the state should never interfere as long as no one gets hurt.

    Cancel Culture (left and right) has its problems, BUT it is protected by the same logic and compnies do what helps them gain more money.
    Look at netflix. The common internet sites (9gag, reddit... here) rage about gay/black/female represantation in Netflix originals. Statistically they are still not even to the same level as there are people in the real world of said groups. But the mere existence of it drives them nuts despite these people NOT being the target group obviously. People claim no one wants to watch tv shows with to many gay characters but shows like elite get renewed and renewed anyway because people actually DO like it.
    What i am saying here is basically: You don't like it don't watch it. Done. No one not even netlfix forces you to watch it. And they never will as they are not able to.

    But there are points where i draw the line personally. Torture porn is... sick i am sorry. The first Saw movie was an interestig concept. Then it just went downhill. Cannibal Holocaust is simply put garbage. As is Hostel. If people tell me they enjoy these movies i just can't really bring myself to like them anymore becuase i think there must be something wrong. These movies are only made for other people to see suffering without actually watching snuff.

    But still. No one is getting hurt so my personal feelings towards these movie do NOT matter to anyone but me. Unless you are showing this to children.

    Another problem where i am actually not sure if it should be legal is in most animes and their constant sexualization of children. People went crazy about "cuties" but most animes are even worse. Making children blushing when being touched and instantly starting to moan. Skimpy outfits. Crotch shots and the age old "but shes a 600 year old vampire"-technicality. People who fight for THIS are dangerously close to something illegal in my eyes and these shows actually should not be allowed to show this stuff. But it is right now.

    I don't think actually making these two genres illegal or more restircted would serve anything real as i don't think most people watching these are actually into snuff or paedophilia and the people who ARE into this stuff are allready probably in posetion of illegal stuff so it will not change anything. Still incredibly creapy. Especially those loli fans.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    do you think that applies in this scenario?

    I can see crusading for something like LGBT or homosexual issues/rights in a movie. But if some director's torture rape fantasy movie was being blocked by film committees and he complained he wasn't being allowed to express himself, do you think there are people that are going to stand up for such a thing unironically?
    People would stand up against unnecessary censorship, absolutely. It's about the principles and not necessarily the "art" itself that is getting censored that is the problem.

    Reason why I call it unnecessary censorship is because you haven't provided any argument except you don't like it. So I use that logic to apply to censorship. Why can't someone use the same "I don't like it" argument for anything you like, or someone else like? There is just no reason to do this and it'll only bring us down a worse path.

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