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  1. #1

    I predicted this while they were announcing Covenants

    Source: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779

    Made this post as they were announcing Covenants and I know Blizzard saw it because the thread blew up. It was shortly after I made that post that I decided to quit WoW until I saw fundamental changes with the design direction of the MMO.

    It became entirely predictable to anyone who has played WoW that these systems were never going to work and after watching how bad BFA content got delayed from 8.0 to 8.1 due to system redesigns this content delay was inevitable but it never needed to be.

    Anyone who saw the Alpha content and Beta could see how alt unfriendly this was going to be. Blizzard learned only one lesson from BFA and that was to give interviews to the biggest content creators who blasted them during BFA and make empty promises to shut them up.

    Add in COVID, system redesigns and some guy at Activison who decides content should be released close to the biggest competition (I.E. FF14's new expansion probably in August/September) and you have one of the biggest content lulz in WoW I can remember for quite a while.

    None of this needed to happen but until Ion admits that this borrowed powered crap that gets fixed after two years then thrown in a trash is horrible game design nothing will ever change. It will require J. Allen Brack himself putting Ion in check before this is ever fixed.

    Nothing can fix this current mess because before Preach got neutered he predicted that the cumulative effects of these systems would get worse with ilvl and new additions later in the content cycle and that is exactly what is happening.

    I pity the WoW playerbase for having to deal with what should have been an awesome expansion. I BEGGED BEGGED Blizzard to do a real death themed expansion but good story and setting cannot make up for bad core game design direction.

    I made this also about Torghast if you need a good laugh about how accurate I was there.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ments/541458/3

  2. #2
    Holy moley are you real PSYCHIC?!

  3. #3
    Fluffy Kitten GothamCity's Avatar
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    Predicted what? Covenants are still in, they're not being scrapped as you "predicted". And your Torghast "predictions" are also pretty far off the mark. They are adding more floors, they're not doing torghast specific gear (beyond legendaries, which we knew from early on), and idk what the rest of your post is on about.
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  4. #4
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    I don't get it...

    You can change covenants still.

    As for the min/max culture, that is the players.

    Most of your "predictions" are down to human behavior..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Predicted what? Covenants are still in, they're not being scrapped as you "predicted". And your Torghast "predictions" are also pretty far off the mark. They are adding more floors, they're not doing torghast specific gear (beyond legendaries, which we knew from early on), and idk what the rest of your post is on about.
    Exactly Covenants are still in and instead of focusing on content they are yet again wasting a massive amount of development time and resources on fixing a problem that never should have existed in the first place. The new "Torghast" additions as you call them are bosses that are a joke, higher ilvl requires as a way to create artificial difficulty and extremely pointless Mythic plus affixes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I don't get it...

    You can change covenants still.

    As for the min/max culture, that is the players.

    Most of your "predictions" are down to human behavior..
    At the time people said not to worry because casuals would never Min/Max like the 1% do and it did not take long before I was proven 100% right on my points. There was no choice at all.

  6. #6
    Covenants are pretty done at this point. They’re trying to double down on the system by giving us Covenant legendaries, the problem is they will only make the strong Covenants better or the Covenant legendaries will stay untouched and people use the established legendaries.

    I really don’t know what the point of them is, I don’t know what they’re trying to achieve. Those legendaries will not close any gaps, they’ll make them even wider.

    In 9.1 we finish all Covenant storylines, don’t even expect more Covenant specific campaigns in 9.2. In 9.2 we might leave the Shadowlands behind and go back to Azeroth on top of that - the entire Covenant system is basically wrapped up and abandoned already. There’s just not more to it. I doubt they’re even trying to redesign or add anything to the system like 8.2 Essences or the 7.3 Netherlight Crucible. Some additional Conduits, that’s it.

    I mean Covenants will be removed by 9.x.5 or the latest 10.0, so every work they do on them is already wasted. This was expected and isn’t surprising at all.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post

    Just take my word right now and scrap this idea. Go a different direction while you have time. Please open it up more, allow some type of choice system because if I go the wrong Covenant you might be stuck a good Prot tank but trash Ret abilities.
    I just hate this very much. Why can't I be a disc priest venthyr and a night fae holy priest? Or a venthyr subtlety rogue and a necrolord assassination rogue?

    Also this needs to be super alt friendly at least if you maxed a character with renown like giving you an effort token to increase dramatically your renow gain with alts.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexplode View Post
    I just hate this very much. Why can't I be a disc priest venthyr and a night fae holy priest? Or a venthyr subtlety rogue and a necrolord assassination rogue?

    Also this needs to be super alt friendly at least if you maxed a character with renown like giving you an effort token to increase dramatically your renow gain with alts.
    We’re trying to save the whole Shadowlands from the Jailer, but hey, you can’t use the power of all Covenants, you must choose one! And if you choose one, you can’t choose the other! Aesthetic vs power vs lore - it was a bad idea from the start, Blizzard went with it, everything players predicted to happen happened and Blizzard abandons the system halfway through because it was a mess from the start - it’s just Azerite again, but now they’re not even trying to waste resources on fixing a fundamentally flawed system (which is good, because they don’t waste resources, but at the same time bad as players have to live with this system for at least 1.5 more years).

    Let’s just hope they learned their lessons now after the failed Azerite and the failed Covenants and pray they’re not introducing another expansion exclusive borrowed power system in the next expansion.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Exactly Covenants are still in and instead of focusing on content they are yet again wasting a massive amount of development time and resources on fixing a problem that never should have existed in the first place. The new "Torghast" additions as you call them are bosses that are a joke, higher ilvl requires as a way to create artificial difficulty and extremely pointless Mythic plus affixes.




    At the time people said not to worry because casuals would never Min/Max like the 1% do and it did not take long before I was proven 100% right on my points. There was no choice at all.
    I mean I agree its a waste but im sure its different teams.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    I made this also about Torghast if you need a good laugh about how accurate I was there.
    You forgot the portions where PotD is as fun as watching paint dry, and isnt required to play.

  11. #11
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    At the time people said not to worry because casuals would never Min/Max like the 1% do and it did not take long before I was proven 100% right on my points. There was no choice at all.
    But.. there is a choice? And many choose what they like, then there are the min/max'ers who more or less demand peak or nothing. You can do all the choices you want, humans, if able to, will go for the 0.5% benefit.

    I am happy there actually are choices instead of just a straight line.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    You forgot the portions where PotD is as fun as watching paint dry, and isnt required to play.
    Oh yeah there is no doubt PotD is boring and Torghast was vastly more visually appealing but the way they chose to incentivize was just weird. It is so heavily dependent on gear when there is literally no reason for it to be. That place should have been the testing ground for tons of bosses with crazy mechanics.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But.. there is a choice? And many choose what they like, then there are the min/max'ers who more or less demand peak or nothing. You can do all the choices you want, humans, if able to, will go for the 0.5% benefit.

    I am happy there actually are choices instead of just a straight line.
    Choices are not real choices if they are vastly inferior. There are countless speccs where the gap is more than 10% or speccs rely on the ability so much they even have seperate stat priorites (Boomkin for example). With aprox. 80% of all DDs having to play NF if not wanting to underperform in some way I can consider the system as failed imho.
    I am highly sceptical with actually refusing (passively) to not try balance the covenants as they dont wanna admit to many people they failed once again. Blizzard needs to step down from the mentally position "We know whats best for you..."

  14. #14
    I like the covenants and I like the flavor they bring. What I don't like is the arbitrary barriers to entry surrounding them. Are we not heroic mortals from azeroth helping save ALL of the shadowlands? yes? then let me swap covenant abilities whenever i want in oribos no stupid quests needed. I get the rep grinds in the covenants for cosmetics, recipes etc. I don't get why I lose access to mounts, armor etc when changing covenants or why i have to do a "redemption" quest when I'm literally stopping the jailer. This same logic applies to conduit energy as well.

    GIVE PLAYERS THE FREEDOM TO PLAY HOW THEY WANT

    Let me swap covenant abilities and conduits whenever i want, how i want, no more arbitrary barriers.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Predicted what? Covenants are still in, they're not being scrapped as you "predicted". And your Torghast "predictions" are also pretty far off the mark. They are adding more floors, they're not doing torghast specific gear (beyond legendaries, which we knew from early on), and idk what the rest of your post is on about.
    OP didn't predict that they would be scrapped, OP advised that they should be scrapped. What OP predicted was that they'd be unbalanced and that picking the wrong one would feel bad.
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  16. #16
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skynet1990 View Post
    Choices are not real choices if they are vastly inferior. There are countless speccs where the gap is more than 10% or speccs rely on the ability so much they even have seperate stat priorites (Boomkin for example). With aprox. 80% of all DDs having to play NF if not wanting to underperform in some way I can consider the system as failed imho.
    I am highly sceptical with actually refusing (passively) to not try balance the covenants as they dont wanna admit to many people they failed once again. Blizzard needs to step down from the mentally position "We know whats best for you..."
    Players should adopt that mentality to since they seem to always know whats best(Hint they don't) and well there hasn't been much Covanent whining, its mostly Torghast, anima and loot drop rate in Castle Nathria. Like really Covanent balance isn't really as bad as the forums put it.
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  17. #17
    You pity the WoW playerbase, and yet here you are on a (mainly) WoW fansite

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    You pity the WoW playerbase, and yet here you are on a (mainly) WoW fansite
    The classic love/hate relationship.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Source: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779

    Made this post as they were announcing Covenants and I know Blizzard saw it because the thread blew up. It was shortly after I made that post that I decided to quit WoW until I saw fundamental changes with the design direction of the MMO.

    It became entirely predictable to anyone who has played WoW that these systems were never going to work and after watching how bad BFA content got delayed from 8.0 to 8.1 due to system redesigns this content delay was inevitable but it never needed to be.

    Anyone who saw the Alpha content and Beta could see how alt unfriendly this was going to be. Blizzard learned only one lesson from BFA and that was to give interviews to the biggest content creators who blasted them during BFA and make empty promises to shut them up.

    Add in COVID, system redesigns and some guy at Activison who decides content should be released close to the biggest competition (I.E. FF14's new expansion probably in August/September) and you have one of the biggest content lulz in WoW I can remember for quite a while.

    None of this needed to happen but until Ion admits that this borrowed powered crap that gets fixed after two years then thrown in a trash is horrible game design nothing will ever change. It will require J. Allen Brack himself putting Ion in check before this is ever fixed.

    Nothing can fix this current mess because before Preach got neutered he predicted that the cumulative effects of these systems would get worse with ilvl and new additions later in the content cycle and that is exactly what is happening.

    I pity the WoW playerbase for having to deal with what should have been an awesome expansion. I BEGGED BEGGED Blizzard to do a real death themed expansion but good story and setting cannot make up for bad core game design direction.

    I made this also about Torghast if you need a good laugh about how accurate I was there.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ments/541458/3
    Let me help you - so you can even PREDICT better.

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    2)This is a buisness - just like any other buisness.
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    4)This is a buisness - just like any other buisness.

    I hope you can reflect on it a bit.

  19. #19
    I mean, you and a million others right?
    Anyone who follows this game's development knew what was going to happen here.
    Those able to think objectively would also know that decisions like this have been a core part of the game for nearly 2 decades now.
    Its not abnormal, its just new.
    Outside of poor balance, the system is working very well, it seems.
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  20. #20
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    if the covenants were purely cosmetic shenanigans choice, with then changing how your skills are showed, like, execute from warriors just changing color/sound and effects based on your covenant, i would be totally fine with that.

    Just make a new talent tree, instead of those burrowed powers and we would be fine.

    I think it is already clear that wow players, we care more about cosmetics and we are ok with grinding/farming then, let the competitive/abiltities and other things like we had before, as just talent rees, spellboks and all burrowed powers sucks

    and if we we going to burrowed powers, make then the same for everyone, i dunno like legion artifacts less problematic for all specs
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-05-04 at 12:03 AM.

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