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  1. #1

    Shouldn't WoW teach you how to play as you level up?

    Food for thought... why is there such a massive skill chasm in wow when it comes to content above heroic at end game?

    Shouldn't skills needed to succeed be taught while leveling? Stuns, interrupts, snares, and proper rotations why is it none of these things are introduced to you as you level as individual skill checks?

    It feels like wow's leveling and teaching tools are stuck fifteen years ago. I guess the question I want to pose is the following.

    Should you be able to hit level cap without understanding all the tools in your classes kite? Shouldn't leveling be where you start to learn your class rather then before you decide you want to complete heroic raiding or mythic content?

  2. #2
    There once was a thing that tried to do this, proving grounds.

    Yeah... guess what the reception was and how that one went.

  3. #3
    If you were required to interrupt and stun mobs during leveling, the blind and deaf grandma that doesn't have hands would complain.

  4. #4
    Yes but todays "gamers" are so entitled that they think they should get all the rewards that anyone who play 18 hours every day get while at the same time having a job, family, children, house, a social life with no time to play video games

    Its ridiculous

  5. #5
    The problem is that there are a lot of systems working against each other. Back in the day, not everyone ran dungeons, raided, ran heroic content, etc. Blizzard these days is pushing everyone in PVP, dungeons, raids, heroic dungeons and mythic +. That is what they consider "content". If you ain't doing or working towards "end game content" you ain't playing their game. So levelling is rushed, massively under tuned and aside from all that, you just get skills thrown at you while you level up. How many even bother to check their spell book or read their skills? Back in the day when you had to visit a trainer, you actually had to read what you were upgrading and figure it out.

    You rarely use stuns, snares, interrupts, etc while levelling so people often times don't know they have to or have those skills. Then you have people that go into tunnel vision and are so caught up with the DPS meters, they forget everything else.

    I was playing Classic recently for the first few levels, you really learn to use all your abilities every pull cause its hard. You can't get away spamming 1-2 abilities. I was levelling a Warrior and a Rogue and I was being forced to use my CDs almost every pull. There is no real incentive or reason for players to do that. You can pretty much reach end game spamming a single ability with no real fear of death. That's basically the main reason as why most players don't know their class.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias1212 View Post
    There once was a thing that tried to do this, proving grounds.

    Yeah... guess what the reception was and how that one went.
    Ahh, good old proving grounds.. Needing just silver to get into Heroics. The crying was so hilarious! So many people were not able to deal with the simpliest mechanics.
    Imo they should bring it back, just to get rid of people who can't even press more than 1 button. No need for them to get into heroics anyways.

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    It could. If you start a new level 1 you get a brief run through of the skills you have at 1. The problem is that they don't repeat this short lesson when you gain new kinds of skills. Say you got your first interrupt at, oh, level 8. You could, on learning the skill, be tossed into a very short scenario that showed you how to use it and why (have an attacker channel a spell that did some damage, slow enough that you can react and have the training NPC encourage you to use the interrupt). Get a snare? Quick scenario. etc. You'd only have a very few of these since you don't need to be shown how to interrupt if you get a second or third one.


    Why don't they do this? Got me.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    You rarely use stuns, snares, interrupts, etc while levelling so people often times don't know they have to or have those skills. Then you have people that go into tunnel vision and are so caught up with the DPS meters, they forget everything else.

    I was playing Classic recently for the first few levels, you really learn to use all your abilities every pull cause its hard. You can't get away spamming 1-2 abilities. I was levelling a Warrior and a Rogue and I was being forced to use my CDs almost every pull. There is no real incentive or reason for players to do that. You can pretty much reach end game spamming a single ability with no real fear of death. That's basically the main reason as why most players don't know their class.
    If you want to level efficiently, yes, you do use all of your abilities. If you pull one for one, ofc not.

    Na, you did not use "all your cds every pull" - you literally do not have many cds, especially as warrior, some being minutes long on CD.
    If you didn't go for multipulls you did not need any cd's at all. If going for multipulls.. see Retail, you need cd's/cc there, too.
    In classic you just had to eat to regain life, which isn't really needed in Retail.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Food for thought... why is there such a massive skill chasm in wow when it comes to content above heroic at end game?

    Shouldn't skills needed to succeed be taught while leveling? Stuns, interrupts, snares, and proper rotations why is it none of these things are introduced to you as you level as individual skill checks?

    It feels like wow's leveling and teaching tools are stuck fifteen years ago. I guess the question I want to pose is the following.

    Should you be able to hit level cap without understanding all the tools in your classes kite? Shouldn't leveling be where you start to learn your class rather then before you decide you want to complete heroic raiding or mythic content?
    I mean, the entire leveling in WoW is designed to be pretty much an optional thing that's really a part of the game experience so it's not designed to provide any meaningful challenge that would require a new player to familiarize the mechanics of the game and their class.

    The easiest way to make people learn how to use kicks etc. early on is by making NPCs tougher but then people would complain about leveling pace.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Ahh, good old proving grounds.. Needing just silver to get into Heroics. The crying was so hilarious! So many people were not able to deal with the simpliest mechanics.
    Imo they should bring it back, just to get rid of people who can't even press more than 1 button. No need for them to get into heroics anyways.
    yeah.. the flood on the general forums shattered the illusion about the average player skill entirely.
    Most of the playerbase sucks and doesn't care about improving even a little bit, they'd rather slam their head repeatedly into a wall and use their time and energy to complain.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    It could. If you start a new level 1 you get a brief run through of the skills you have at 1. The problem is that they don't repeat this short lesson when you gain new kinds of skills. Say you got your first interrupt at, oh, level 8. You could, on learning the skill, be tossed into a very short scenario that showed you how to use it and why (have an attacker channel a spell that did some damage etc). Get a snare? Quick scenario. etc. You'd only have a very few of these since you don't need to be shown how to interrupt if you get a second or third one.


    Why don't they do this? Got me.
    They could make it the same as the starter npc on the new island, where you use your new abilities, as you said - just make using the new abilities in a right way necessary (like, as warlock you have to clip your dot I think 3 times in a rather short window). Only when you finished all tutorial abilities, you are allowed to queue for normal/heroic, depending on level and available tutorial quests.

    They should def go further into this.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    Blizzard these days is pushing everyone in PVP, dungeons, raids, heroic dungeons and mythic +. That is what they consider "content". If you ain't doing or working towards "end game content" you ain't playing their game.
    Maybe because this is exactly how the player base has treated it since at least TBC?

    I remember when I started playing this game back then, players would tell me the game didn't even start till level cap.

    Blizzard's just been listening to the community.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias1212 View Post
    yeah.. the flood on the general forums shattered the illusion about the average player skill entirely.
    Most of the playerbase sucks and doesn't care about improving even a little bit, they'd rather slam their head repeatedly into a wall and use their time and energy to complain.
    Absolutely agreed.
    One would think that taking 30-60 minutes to learn the character would be the first thing one does. But it looks like it's easier to die hundreds of times to the most basic enemies/mechanics.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    If you were required to interrupt and stun mobs during leveling, the blind and deaf grandma that doesn't have hands would complain.
    As horrible as this sounds, I laughed at this and I kinda agree. In WoW there always seem to be some people who think they should be able to play tag in crutches (and win) and play basketball in a team of 1 and stuff like that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Food for thought... why is there such a massive skill chasm in wow when it comes to content above heroic at end game?

    Shouldn't skills needed to succeed be taught while leveling? Stuns, interrupts, snares, and proper rotations why is it none of these things are introduced to you as you level as individual skill checks?

    It feels like wow's leveling and teaching tools are stuck fifteen years ago. I guess the question I want to pose is the following.

    Should you be able to hit level cap without understanding all the tools in your classes kite? Shouldn't leveling be where you start to learn your class rather then before you decide you want to complete heroic raiding or mythic content?
    It cannot be taught by playing singel player while leveling. I don't think any game does that actually. To play on the highest level you always have to put in more work. Especially in a game that has always been endgame focused.
    The new starting zone actually teaches you the basics quite good. The rest is up to you. What helpes is reading your abilities. Suprising how many people do not do this.

  16. #16
    The problem is alot of people don't like forced tutorials, they'd rather 'learn by playing', but the problem is there that if the content is remotely hard people QQ until it isn't.

    Hard mobs would inevitably make leveling slower, and people would then complain blizz is slowing down the game to 'increase time played metrics' and 'make more people buy boosts'.

    Admittedly I don't like forced tutorials myself. Its a real turn off when I install a game and it forces me through a bunch of contrived scenarios that i'll probably forget anyway. I very much prefer learning by doing, but the player base is also rather adverse to that.

  17. #17
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Food for thought... why is there such a massive skill chasm in wow when it comes to content above heroic at end game?

    Shouldn't skills needed to succeed be taught while leveling? Stuns, interrupts, snares, and proper rotations why is it none of these things are introduced to you as you level as individual skill checks?

    It feels like wow's leveling and teaching tools are stuck fifteen years ago. I guess the question I want to pose is the following.

    Should you be able to hit level cap without understanding all the tools in your classes kite? Shouldn't leveling be where you start to learn your class rather then before you decide you want to complete heroic raiding or mythic content?
    The new starter island does some of this. However, here's the larger problem: You aren't given all your abilities/talents until you reach max level. Therefore how do you "teach" a rotation to a player when they don't have all the tools at their disposal?

    Moreover, it's not like the current internet doesn't have enough information that players can turn to. Wowhead, icy-veins, class discords, youtube videos are all out there waiting for players to consume.

    It's not like a decade ago when the information wasn't readily available, you have google now- use it.
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  18. #18
    You know why wow was so much more popular back in the day? because it was so simple and easy to get in to. You all must admit that nowdays it's incredible rough to be a new player or someone who has skipped a few expansions to get back into it. Have you noticed that the more advanced wow gets the less people play it?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    It cannot be taught by playing singel player while leveling. I don't think any game does that actually. To play on the highest level you always have to put in more work. Especially in a game that has always been endgame focused.
    The new starting zone actually teaches you the basics quite good. The rest is up to you. What helpes is reading your abilities. Suprising how many people do not do this.
    I mean they could simply funnel you into a brawlers guild kinda fight once every ten levels to make sure you have the skills down it is easy to do it.

  20. #20
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Food for thought... why is there such a massive skill chasm in wow when it comes to content above heroic at end game?

    Shouldn't skills needed to succeed be taught while leveling? Stuns, interrupts, snares, and proper rotations why is it none of these things are introduced to you as you level as individual skill checks?

    It feels like wow's leveling and teaching tools are stuck fifteen years ago. I guess the question I want to pose is the following.

    Should you be able to hit level cap without understanding all the tools in your classes kite? Shouldn't leveling be where you start to learn your class rather then before you decide you want to complete heroic raiding or mythic content?
    Well, the game does teach you the abilities you need but as a player, you need to gain the experience of when to use it. And you only gain that experience by trying.

    As well, Blizzard did, I liked the idea but many others didn't, try to make Proving Grounds a thing and many didn't seem to get it.
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