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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And since clearly people have complained about it and it's not "fixed..."

    Not bugged. Proven.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh, but you could be. Until I am able to look behind the screen and confirm 100% that you aren't, there's the possibility that you could be, right?

    So therefore, you are Kaver. And I need no evidence to say so.
    Basically, you have no point other than "I said so". It's a sad rebuttal. Watching you and Kaver post so close to each other, am I to assume you both are the same person trolling the forums? It wouldn't be unheard of, I suppose. But, unlike you, I won't make the same assumption.

    No, you basically fall back into the trope of "I know more than you because I said so" and that's as laughable as it is sad. I tried to help you shore up your rebuttal and you essentially just went and pulled a third-grader response instead. Unimpressive.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And since clearly people have complained about it and it's not "fixed..."

    Not bugged. Proven.
    Legendaries drop was bugged for a long time in Legion and that was very severe. So no, Blizzard don’t always fix bugs right away.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    Basically, you have no point other than "I said so". It's a sad rebuttal. Watching you and Kaver post so close to each other, am I to assume you both are the same person trolling the forums? It wouldn't be unheard of, I suppose. But, unlike you, I won't make the same assumption.

    No, you basically fall back into the trope of "I know more than you because I said so" and that's as laughable as it is sad. I tried to help you shore up your rebuttal and you essentially just went and pulled a third-grader response instead. Unimpressive.
    So now I’m both you and Fleugen.. jesus

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    Basically, you have no point other than "I said so". It's a sad rebuttal. Watching you and Kaver post so close to each other, am I to assume you both are the same person trolling the forums? It wouldn't be unheard of, I suppose. But, unlike you, I won't make the same assumption.
    That'd be a silly assumption, considering he and I are arguing against each other, but you're more than welcome to, Kaver.

    I moreso did so because you just so happened to jump into a conversation, rebuke us both, agree with him, but only respond to me. Which you are STILL doing.

    No, you basically fall back into the trope of "I know more than you because I said so" and that's as laughable as it is sad. I tried to help you shore up your rebuttal and you essentially just went and pulled a third-grader response instead. Unimpressive.
    Literally do know more than you, but not just because I say so. Because I'm willing to look at evidence and draw a conclusion rather than just say "well we don't know and can't, so the possibility is there!"

    No, the possibility isn't always there just because you said so. And it's kind of laughable that you'd say that while rebuking me about "because I said so" that I didn't even say.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Legendaries drop was bugged for a long time in Legion and that was very severe. So no, Blizzard don’t always fix bugs right away.
    It would be best for your case if you provide more statements with substance because Fleugen clearly won't. It is better to battle with facts than feelings. All people can do with rebuttal of facts is respond with feelings if they can't support their argument. Or, occasionally, "because I said so."

  5. #205
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Let's drop the rolling argument about whether or not it's a bug, which is completely unproveable from our standpoint, and return to the original conversation concerning the Vault's randomness or lack thereof.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Legendaries drop was bugged for a long time in Legion and that was very severe. So no, Blizzard don’t always fix bugs right away.
    You mean the one where the drop rate could be bugged if you got your legendary early? So the exact OPPOSITE sense of a bug? And that they got ABSOLUTELY REAMED OVER because people got extra legendaries faster?

    That doesn't help your argument like you think it does. Nevermind that it was bugged for a total of two weeks even, less than I first thought.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2021-05-05 at 04:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    That'd be a silly assumption, considering he and I are arguing against each other, but you're more than welcome to, Kaver.

    I moreso did so because you just so happened to jump into a conversation, rebuke us both, agree with him, but only respond to me. Which you are STILL doing.



    Literally do know more than you, but not just because I say so. Because I'm willing to look at evidence and draw a conclusion rather than just say "well we don't know and can't, so the possibility is there!"

    No, the possibility isn't always there just because you said so. And it's kind of laughable that you'd say that while rebuking me about "because I said so" that I didn't even say.
    So, I always have to respond to everyone in a thread. Not just the one who is jumping up and down making more assumptions than the people he is responding to, is that it?

    Come now, you can do better than that. Literally all of your assumptions about me have been and continue to be wrong. Yet you stamp your foot in protest that you are right because you have to be. You're not. Seriously. Look at our sentence structure, grammar, logic, and method of conveying ideas. I'm as much him as I am you. Stop gaslighting and start thinking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Let's drop the rolling argument about whether or not it's a bug, which is completely unproveable from our standpoint, and return to the original conversation concerning the Vault's randomness or lack thereof.
    Thank you.

  8. #208
    RNG is RNG. You can even get only bracers for the rest of the expansion. The probability for that to happen is very low, but possible.

    I only looted the vault about 7 times and didn't get a duplicate slot.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    So, I always have to respond to everyone in a thread. Not just the one who is jumping up and down making more assumptions than the people he is responding to, is that it?

    Come now, you can do better than that. Literally all of your assumptions about me have been and continue to be wrong. Yet you stamp your foot in protest that you are right because you have to be. You're not. Seriously. Look at our sentence structure, grammar, logic, and method of conveying ideas. I'm as much him as I am you. Stop gaslighting and start thinking.
    Ah, but I don't know that, and can't know that, so the possibility of you being him is non-0, right?

    Should sound familiar, Kaver. I'll take my ban. Make it perma this time so I don't come back. The fact that I can't point out the obvious here is too fucking annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    RNG is RNG. You can even get only bracers for the rest of the expansion. The probability for that to happen is very low, but possible.

    I only looted the vault about 7 times and didn't get a duplicate slot.
    I got two trinkets in my vault from Heroic CN yesterday. Though, they weren't the same ones (One was a 213 Glyph of Assimilation, the other was a 220 Cabalist's Hymnal). It does give me an idea though.

    If the odds are not based on the slot as such so much as how many potential items there are for a spec to get, the pool could be substantially larger than just the slot. So for example (for a warlock):

    The number of necklaces that drop + the number of bracers + number of shoulders + number of boots + number of cloaks + mh token + oh token + number of gloves + number of belts + number of pants + number of chests + number of rings + number of trinkets = Z

    1/Z ^ 3

    Z could easily be greater than 14 or 16. I'll have to run the numbers. But, it would be interesting to see.

    I count 29 pieces of loot possible to drop for my character (including 213 MH and OH tokens + 220 MH and OH tokens). As conduits don't appear to drop from the Vault, I did not include them in the list.

    So, 1/29 ^ 3 = 1/24389 chances I'd get the same item if the assumption is polling from the total pool of all possible loot rather than a specific slot.

    I'm not sure which method they're using: Slot rolls or total pool of all possible loot. But, the odds aren't even in the millions in either scenario. It is roughly 10 times more possible if they're using slot rolls vs a pool.
    Last edited by Yakut; 2021-05-05 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Spell check; Add numbers for slots after looking in game

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    In a casino, you'd be right.

    But Blizzard isn't a casino. You give them money before you can play their game, and then you never need to give them money again if you don't feel like it.

    You literally can't lose in WoW. Everything you do is a win. Even items that you don't want are wins. Trying to compare drops to a casino misses the point that you literally didn't pay anything for the drop. It's free. You didn't lose anything by getting a drop you didn't want. You got an item for your work, and your work was playing a game that you already gave money to play, because you wanted to play it.

    This analogy is shitty at the core.
    *looks at the clock ....looks at how many hours people are pouring into M+runs and other busy work for RNG casino drops ...yup you dont pay them anything, the longer you spend on their floor chasing fake items the more likely it'll be that you'll keep on coming back if you dont win the items you want.

    They have all the incentive in the world to keep your sorry asses right there chasing purples and none at all to make a fair and equitable loot system.

    I made my choice, I dont gamble at Blizzards casino.

    Id rather be earning 40 an hour and buying my way to the top than doing busy work for drops that are as useful as tits on a bull and messing with a RNG system that is designed to not work.

    That way I get what I want in a fraction of the time it takes the RNG suckers too, Id rather waste money than my time, money is easy to get, time not so much.

    These days with just how horrible in game loot is, I dont even bother buying it, Destiny 2 is more fun for loot drops and I can even target the exact loot item I want in that game, it also costs nothing month to month.
    Last edited by Addiena; 2021-05-05 at 04:32 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    It would be best for your case if you provide more statements with substance because Fleugen clearly won't. It is better to battle with facts than feelings. All people can do with rebuttal of facts is respond with feelings if they can't support their argument. Or, occasionally, "because I said so."
    Allow me to reiterate your own post for a tad bit of clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakut View Post
    It would be best for your case if you would spend several extra minutes of your precious life tracking down necessary proof of what transpired at the start of the Legion to actually 'provide more statements with substance' to an unknown 'anonymous' person on the Internets who clearly wasn't even around 8.x back then. It is better to battle with facts than feelings, especially when you're trying to enlighten a person who is clearly enjoying his own delusions of Blizzard the Impeccable. Simply "because he said so."
    You're welcome.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena View Post
    *looks at the clock ....looks at how many hours people are pouring into M+runs and other busy work for RNG casino drops ...yup you dont pay them anything, the longer you spend on their floor chasing fake items the more likely it'll be that you'll keep on coming back if you dont win.

    They have all the incentive in the world to keep your sorry asses right there chasing purples and none at all to make a fair and equitable loot system.

    I made my choice, I dont gamble at Blizzards casino.
    That's called playing the game.

    You're more than welcome to not enjoy it and even not play it. But the people who do it, generally enjoy it.

    I know that's hard for you to believe, but really. It's the truth. And they aren't losing anything but the time they'd spend on another game doing it. Your statement doesn't change that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena View Post
    *looks at the clock ....looks at how many hours people are pouring into M+runs and other busy work for RNG casino drops ...yup you dont pay them anything, the longer you spend on their floor chasing fake items the more likely it'll be that you'll keep on coming back if you dont win.

    They have all the incentive in the world to keep your sorry asses right there chasing purples and none at all to make a fair and equitable loot system.

    I made my choice, I dont gamble at Blizzards casino.
    Will you keep chasing them if you think the loot system is unfair? No? Then they have a reason to make one.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Will you keep chasing them if you think the loot system is unfair? No? Then they have a reason to make one.

    This thread is evidence that yes.. yes they will, they only have to give the system the appearance of being fair and the players will suck that shit right in and keep on sucking on Blizzards teat.

    That's how gamblers get into the shit they get into.

    As for me . .no I saw how horrible their loot system was years ago, then watched it denigrate into what it is now and walked away.

    My time isn't worth the frustration of dealing with a clearly unfair loot system and the people who support it because it appears to be fair.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    That's called playing the game.

    You're more than welcome to not enjoy it and even not play it. But the people who do it, generally enjoy it.

    I know that's hard for you to believe, but really. It's the truth. And they aren't losing anything but the time they'd spend on another game doing it. Your statement doesn't change that.
    Hello. I am a random derp from the Great Beyond That Exists At The Other Side Of Your Monitor. I am one of those you just addressed 'generally'.
    I would like to humbly inform you, good Sir, that I stopped enjoying the game of WoW in 5.0. Ever since then I've been struggling and suffering.
    I found myself unable to just ditch the game. I tried, thrice. And every time I came back. Not because of fancy addons (every time I resubbed "mid-content"), but because I just cannot force myself to abandon the character I literally put my soul and a lot of personal effort into - back in the days when we actually LOVED the game. I'm not 'enjoying' it anymore, I'm not even 'playing' it. I'm 'enduring'. Against all odds, against the common sense and baseline logic. Simply because I cannot let go.
    This doesn't mean that Billzord Inc. is allowed to humiliate me on daily basis by implementing untold amount of horrible "un-fun" concepts in the game.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellas View Post
    Hello. I am a random derp from the Great Beyond That Exists At The Other Side Of Your Monitor. I am one of those you just addressed 'generally'.
    I would like to humbly inform you, good Sir, that I stopped enjoying the game of WoW in 5.0. Ever since then I've been struggling and suffering.
    I found myself unable to just ditch the game. I tried, thrice. And every time I came back. Not because of fancy addons (every time I resubbed "mid-content"), but because I just cannot force myself to abandon the character I literally put my soul and a lot of personal effort into - back in the days when we actually LOVED the game. I'm not 'enjoying' it anymore, I'm not even 'playing' it. I'm 'enduring'. Against all odds, against the common sense and baseline logic. Simply because I cannot let go.
    This doesn't mean that Billzord Inc. is allowed to humiliate me on daily basis by implementing untold amount of horrible "un-fun" concepts in the game.
    The sarcasm here is so think you could beat Sargeras to death with it.

    But if your being serious . .I put 15 years into this game and enough money for a deposit on a house and I managed to just walk away from it .. partly, I still come to the forums because I do generally like the conversations and its still cool to nerd out about the lore and story.
    Last edited by Addiena; 2021-05-05 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellas View Post
    Hello. I am a random derp from the Great Beyond That Exists At The Other Side Of Your Monitor. I am one of those you just addressed 'generally'.
    I would like to humbly inform you, good Sir, that I stopped enjoying the game of WoW in 5.0. Ever since then I've been struggling and suffering.
    I found myself unable to just ditch the game. I tried, thrice. And every time I came back. Not because of fancy addons (every time I resubbed "mid-content"), but because I just cannot force myself to abandon the character I literally put my soul and a lot of personal effort into - back in the days when we actually LOVED the game. I'm not 'enjoying' it anymore, I'm not even 'playing' it. I'm 'enduring'. Against all odds, against the common sense and baseline logic. Simply because I cannot let go.
    This doesn't mean that Billzord Inc. is allowed to humiliate me on daily basis by implementing untold amount of horrible "un-fun" concepts in the game.
    That is a serious issue that you should seek mental help for then.

    If you cannot just put the game down when you feel like it, that is a serious issue. Not joking, trolling, nor attempting to be mean in this situation - If you ACTUALLY struggle with putting the game down, I would recommend seeing someone as honest advise. You may have an addiction you need help dealing with.

    That said, you're probably being sarcastic, but hey.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena View Post
    This thread is evidence that yes.. yes they will, they only have to give the system the appearance of being fair and the players will suck that shit right in and keep on sucking on Blizzards teat.
    And you are evidence that no, you won't.

    Besides, this thread is only evidence that some people think it is unfair, not that it actually is.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellas View Post
    Allow me to reiterate your own post for a tad bit of clarification.

    You're welcome.
    Sadie, I mean Zellas, that's not really germane to the conversation and I don't need someone to make my posts more Awkard. Thank you though.

    The question, as the OP and mod pointed out, is whether or not the system is random. It's a fair question. Statistically, I have been able to prove with math that the outcome the OP listed, it is possible and not so remote as to be impossible. Though, I think it is a fair point that this is a bit of anecdotal evidence. There is no indication this happens frequently. I can't say I've seen it happen on any of my 60s yet (warlock, priest, rogue), but it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen so much as annoy me.

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