Thread: [TV] Loki

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    I think the 'power' of the TVA lies mainly in numbers and in being outside of any kind of timeline, which is what makes the Infinity Stones powerless. The hunters also seem at least resilient enough to touch at least the Tesseract without getting either burned or sucked to Vormir. From the colours the Timekeepers 'shoot' out of their fingers in the explainer-cartoon it even seems they set the Infinity Stones into place when the made the 'sacred timeline', so maybe it's because of that.
    Everything else though the hunters seem really oblivious about, almost robot-like. I mean, they get a whole Professor Loki session and B15 still jumps and asks what that was when Loki uses magic to dry himself. They seem to not even know that there's the possibility of mind control and almost don't defend themselves at all against C 20. And that even while they surely saw a lot of mindcontrolled people when they were getting all those variants who had the mindstones (that are now paperweights). It's really strange, but it is so prominently featured all in all that I think there's a point to it, it's not just an oversight.
    The agents themselves seem hardly better than ordinary cops all in all. Their power lies in their technology- the disintegration batons and the time-controlling/erasing devices. And yeah, the Variant runs circles around them with plans that, while clever enough, aren't interdimensional 5D chess either, and Loki frees himself and then evades capture easily enough in their own base until he basically stays put and lets himself be found. There may be a reason for all this as you say but I'm still puzzled for now, it seems hard to believe these jokers could ever possibly stop a, say, Hulk or Thanos variant, and there must have existed variants of that level of power.

    The agency will almost certainly be outed as incredibly incompetent all in all and the Time Keepers will likely step in. They're the big honchos that we'll have to be scared of.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    being beaten the shit out, and not talking or getting answers meanwhile is a dumb way to do that

    you are basically telling me, on top of being weaker he is also dumber?
    It's actually very smart:

    1) If he's at his peak powerlevel and can roflstomp this Lady Loki, he beats her up, knocks her out, kills her, whatever, he gets nothing out of her before the TVA agents appear. Even if he restrains her quickly and wants her to talk, her being physically beaten means she is psychologically beaten, and that makes people want to shut the fuck up.

    2) If they're evenly matched, they're fighting to a standstill.......til the TVA arrives and tips the scale in their favor, in which case he gets nothing out of her.

    3) If he pretends to be weaker, he ends the fight quickly, can talk to her, and by putting her physically on the upper hand, he also manipulates her to be psychologically with the upper hand, and may cause her to gloat, mock, or reveal something, in classic villain fashion.

    Again, this is simple enough if you thought clearly for a second, instead of being obsessed with powerlevels and women potentially being powerful.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2021-06-18 at 11:31 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Wasn't Enchantress in Agents of Shield?
    IIRC, her sister Lorelei was.

  4. #264
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    67,568
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Again, this is simple enough if you thought clearly for a second, instead of being obsessed with powerlevels and women potentially being powerful.
    There's a seriously weird trend lately of people trying to force headcanon onto shows and demanding that the show be considered "bad writing" for not abiding by their headcanon.

    And usually, that headcanon doesn't even make sense.

    If you've got an idea in your head, and the show violates that idea, that means your idea was wrong, not the show. You'd need to demonstrate the show violating its own rules for that kind of argument to work.

    It's particularly weird when it comes down to "but character X did something that's not optimal or possibly a mistake!" Yeah, that's how characters work. They don't always act in the smartest possible way, because people don't behave like that.

    I made a butt-ton of guesses in the Wandavision and Falcon+WinterSoldier threads. I've made some here. When those shows, and this show, inevitably prove me wrong, it's not because the show is bad and should feel bad and nobody should enjoy it, it's that I goofed up. Maybe I bit at a red herring (definitely did with Mephisto in Wandavision), maybe I read way too much into a throwaway line that meant nothing, whatever. I don't need to prove those guesses right, and it's no skin off my nose that I goofed up. Nor does it mean the writers did anything "wrong".

  5. #265
    I mean, the Ralph Boehner red herring in WandaVision was bad, but generally I agree.

  6. #266
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    67,568
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean, the Ralph Boehner red herring in WandaVision was bad, but generally I agree.
    See, I think the Ralph Boehner red herring was hilarious, and that Evan Peters was the only casting option. If they'd brought Aaron Taylor-Johnson back, there'd have been no discordance; Wanda just brought her bro back like she brought Vision back. If they'd cast literally anyone else but one of those two actors, the audience would've assumed it was just Fake Stand-in from Central Casting and definitely not Pietro in any way or from any universe.

    Using Evan Peters, and the audience was just as knocked off-kilter and unsure as Wanda was in that moment. Is this really him? What's happening? Is this the Pietro she knew? Some other Pietro? Some fake?

    Literally anyone else in that role, and the audience doesn't get that feeling. The very fact that the fans went nuts theorizing and nudging each other with glee only to have their hopes dashed in the end is a really solid mirror for how Wanda's emotional arc would've gone through in reaction to Pietro showing up. The more I think on it, the more I think it was the single smartest thing the show did.

  7. #267
    Nah, I think they should have cast a new person to "play" the brother if that's what they were going to do. Getting Evan Peters to do it was intentional trolling, which isn't even okay anywhere, even when the troller is Marvel Comics. They knew it would introduce multiverse thoughts in people's heads, with Wanda's status as a Nexus Being, Evan Peters as Quicksilver in another cinematic universe, his extemporaneous knowledge of things that happened he should have had no idea about. FWIW, he knew stuff even Agatha shouldn't have known about. Now, if they come back in Dr. Strange and flip it, and he's not really Ralph Boehner (and there's some indication Ralph Boehner isn't entirely on the up and up), then fine. I dislike leaving your story beats to later media, but the MCU has become this thing where it's expected you know every corner of every piece of it, so I imagine most people will think it's fine. They could have easily pulled off a 3rd party Pietro with Kat's "They recast Pietro?!?" line, and then there'd be the question of whether he was really Pietro with another face or whatnot. Especially if the actor looked like her original brother, and Wanda was just "grabbing a lookalike."

    Speaking of which, getting back to Loki: At the beginning of this episode, when they were at the Ren Faire in Wisconsin in 1985, I swore for a second the first person they talked to was Kathryn Hahn, and for a second I was like, "WAS AGATHA SO BORED SHE WAS TRAWLING REN FAIRES?" It made so little impact on anyone else that I'm obviously now convinced it couldn't have been her, but for a second I was like: "Man, the easter eggs."

  8. #268
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    12,260
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    It's actually very smart:

    1) If he's at his peak powerlevel and can roflstomp this Lady Loki, he beats her up, knocks her out, kills her, whatever, he gets nothing out of her before the TVA agents appear. Even if he restrains her quickly and wants her to talk, her being physically beaten means she is psychologically beaten, and that makes people want to shut the fuck up.

    2) If they're evenly matched, they're fighting to a standstill.......til the TVA arrives and tips the scale in their favor, in which case he gets nothing out of her.

    3) If he pretends to be weaker, he ends the fight quickly, can talk to her, and by putting her physically on the upper hand, he also manipulates her to be psychologically with the upper hand, and may cause her to gloat, mock, or reveal something, in classic villain fashion.
    ok, first of all, the first one make no sense, no one is asking that.

    Second, it was not loki who was gaining time, it was lady loki, so she could care less, she was playing him to get the charges done as we saw, and when she did she said fuck it.

    The point is not "pretend to be weaker" but play tricks, like the god os mischeif he is, not even an illusion to dodge one attack? but a telekinisis roomba?come one, he did the illusion trick in his very first movie against a frost giant, is that asking too much to be done here??

    Again, this is simple enough if you thought clearly for a second, instead of being obsessed with powerlevels and women potentially being powerful.
    who the fuck is talking about women being powerful? you will just gonna strawman this argument over and over? what a joke,

    loki was fighting against her or a fat guy enchanted?

    the amount of nonsense just to get a upperhand in an argument

  9. #269
    I was rewatching episode 1 today, and I had a few more thoughts:

    1) Loki outlines his view on humanity: that the "song of freedom" was the worst thing for the vast majority of people. It brings them shame and guilt and most would love the reassurance of being told how to live their lives. Sound familiar? That's exactly what the TVA is doing. To me, this lends credence to the idea I've been hearing that (speculation ahead): Loki, Wanda, and Dr. Strange are somehow the Time Keepers, seeing as the TVA is outside of time and space (and thus could be beyond the timeline we currently know).

    2) For some reason, I thought of Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor parable, in his last novel, The Brothers Karamazov, which is a condemnation by one of the Spanish Inquisitors of Christ for not giving people those self-same assurances by proving his absolute divinity and letting people gladly fall to their knees and worship him, and the Church's need to step in and provide that authority so people wouldn't fall to pieces. Interestingly, that piece ends with Christ, who has come back for the Second Coming and is arrested by said Grand Inquisitor, answers him with a non-answer: a kiss that burns in the Inquisitor's heart, a mysterious love that justifies free will and validates God's so-called mistake. I doubt this series will get that deep, but if they ever mention the Grand Inquisitor, I'm coming back to this post.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I was rewatching episode 1 today, and I had a few more thoughts:

    1) Loki outlines his view on humanity: that the "song of freedom" was the worst thing for the vast majority of people. It brings them shame and guilt and most would love the reassurance of being told how to live their lives. Sound familiar? That's exactly what the TVA is doing. To me, this lends credence to the idea I've been hearing that (speculation ahead): Loki, Wanda, and Dr. Strange are somehow the Time Keepers, seeing as the TVA is outside of time and space (and thus could be beyond the timeline we currently know).

    2) For some reason, I thought of Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor parable, in his last novel, The Brothers Karamazov, which is a condemnation by one of the Spanish Inquisitors of Christ for not giving people those self-same assurances by proving his absolute divinity and letting people gladly fall to their knees and worship him, and the Church's need to step in and provide that authority so people wouldn't fall to pieces. Interestingly, that piece ends with Christ, who has come back for the Second Coming and is arrested by said Grand Inquisitor, answers him with a non-answer: a kiss that burns in the Inquisitor's heart, a mysterious love that justifies free will and validates God's so-called mistake. I doubt this series will get that deep, but if they ever mention the Grand Inquisitor, I'm coming back to this post.
    Nr. 1 was one of my first thoughts upon watching the episode and I think it will be one of the reasons Loki will change at least somewhat during the series, because he will notice it too. I think we already saw some of that in episode 2, when he shows 'interest' in people dying, twice. He asks about a human's death whom he not even knew, which I think would not even have crossed his mind before his run-in with the TVA and he seems actually concerned about B-15. Not like... he would shed any tears, but he does look after her when she falls down and Randy seems to hit a nerve when he identifies this as concern and mocks Loki.

    And as for 2, I'm not sure they won't go that deep. Although they might not want to provide easy answers, as with their other series... which is also kind of the point of Loki and a possible free will debate. If you want free will, you can't just take easy answers from someone else, not even if the answer is 'free will is good!'

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •