Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #401
    From all the translated books i got to read: Not really.
    He dresses up as a women (himself and Thor at one occation) in order to sneak into one place. He uses magical garments (usually stolen from someone else) to turn himself into a falcon, turned himself into an insect to distract the smith that forged Mjolnir, turned himself into a mare to distract Svadilfari, and only once into a woman to doom another god (but not for fun or spicy things).

    For the necessary context about the mare thing: after another war amongst the gods the walls of Asgard were heavily damaged. A disguised frost giant offered to rebuild them, and he demanded Freyja, the sun and the moon as payment. After much debate the gods agreed if he could finish the task in one season with no man's help. He asked if it was okay to use his horse, Svadilfari, since it was no man. The gods debated again and Loki conviced them to allow the horse.
    The sheer might of the horse and the size of the boulders it could haul suprised the gods. And when only 3 days were left, with the giants victory clearly in view, the gods blamed Loki for convincing them. I do not remember if it was Thor or Odin who threatened to kill him should the builder succeed.

    So, desperate to halt the construction and not to get killed Loki turned himself into a, well, mare in heat, and Svadilfari bolted, leaving the builder alone to the task.
    Loki-Mare ran for his life and somehow managed to distract Svadilfari for about two days. On the last day the builder retourned to work with a completely drained horse that could no longer pull the heavy stone and had to give up. After dropping his disguise Thor killed the frost giant.
    And some time later Loki gave birth to Sleipnir.
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  2. #402
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It is evidence. Your only argument to counter it is to declare "It doesn't count." You have zero support at all to make that statement. You are saying it doesn't count as evidence because of your personal standard of evidence that no one can meet.
    I do ahve support, and explained very detailed, you keep ignoring and saying it is because eys,

    No, the Legend does not state that Loki had sex to distract Svadilfari period. It is not in the myth at all. The fact he had sex with Svadilfari is only know because of the birth that happened afterward. There is no evidence in the myth sex was required to distract him at all. This is a fact, you are saying "the sex was the distraction" when it wasn't. Loki turning into the mare was the distraction
    It is literally, stated in the prose Edda and you are straight up ignoring that.

    The gods declare that Loki deserves a horrible death if he cannot find a scheme that will cause the builder to forfeit his payment, and threaten to attack him. Loki, afraid, swears oaths that he will devise a scheme to cause the builder to forfeit the payment, whatever it may cost himself. That night, the builder drives out to fetch stone with his stallion Svaðilfari, and out from a wood runs a mare. The mare neighs at Svaðilfari, and "realizing what kind of horse it was", Svaðilfari becomes frantic, neighs, tears apart his tackle, and runs towards the mare. The mare runs to the wood, Svaðilfari follows, and the builder chases after.
    with this on mind, again, there is no evidence of loki being stracted by horses or being bi, if anything, if we stretch long enough, the evidence either says he was a zoophile or he was raped by the horse while running

    While it is possible to happen,
    Then there is nothing else for we to talk about it.

    the vast majority of sex is WITH attraction on the part of at least one party. In order to say there was no attraction, you need evidence
    And we do have that, as Loki never had sex with a horse ever again, neither with another male god, giant or animal.

    Your entire argument to this is essentially "I do not accept this, therefore it is grasping at straws." .
    thats literally you, lmao, there is no evidence of Loki being attracted to the horde and there is evidence of him having to do that to distract the horse and not die.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I do ahve support, and explained very detailed, you keep ignoring and saying it is because eys,
    No, you do not. You think you have support but again your argument amounts to just saying "Nuh uh!" or "I don't believe it." There is literally no support behind. I can't ignore something that doesn't exist.

    And no, the prose doesn't say that. The prose said Loki would do anything to avoid it. YOU, not the myth, are then asserting that the sex was part of it DESPITE the myth not saying that.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  4. #404
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    No, you do not. You think you have support but again your argument amounts to just saying "Nuh uh!" or "I don't believe it." There is literally no support behind. I can't ignore something that doesn't exist.

    And no, the prose doesn't say that. The prose said Loki would do anything to avoid it. YOU, not the myth, are then asserting that the sex was part of it DESPITE the myth not saying that.
    Do you realize you are pulling out a Patrick here right?

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Do you realize you are pulling out a Patrick here right?
    I don't get that reference or that phrase as I literally never encountered it before.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-06-29 at 11:32 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #406
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Just a heads up, there's an after credits scene at the end of this one.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Just a heads up, there's an after credits scene at the end of this one.
    Technically midcredits, but yes.

    And it is definitely important.

    But, holy crap does this add so many questions now.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #408
    Jaimie Alexander is back!

  9. #409
    Another episode down, two to go. Still has a high volume of "two people sitting together and talking about feelings/stuff", and again the action was a bit on the weak side considering how much budget this show supposedly has. However, this episode confirmed a LOT of what I was thinking since the first episode, whether it's good or bad.

    For starters, the show is now full-blown indicating that everything about the TVA is a lie. How far it goes, we'll see, as they may actually fix the timeline inconsistencies by actually going the route that everything about the timeline is a lie (as potentially indicated by the post-credit teaser and all the different Loki's). However, I'm getting ahead of myself.

    My resolution to the cliffhanger was spot on from what I posted before, and I still find it very weak, especially due to the show's inability to pick between the TVA time flowing independently of the 'sacred timeline' and it flowing at the same time. When both Loki's are sharing their feelings (and I think Loki's going a bit overboard to the levels of 'stronk whamen' cringe, but I'll just ignore that for now) and there's a sharper-than-normal variant timeline splitting off because of it, it happens real-time at the TVA, when it should happen instantly and have always happened once the Loki's left the TVA time space. But this is the common inconsistency with the writing of the timeline mechanics, and it makes it considerably harder to get invested in the states between time spaces... basically, if you don't know the rules or constantly change them, there is no sense of stakes.

    They do delve into the origin of female Loki slightly, and it just confirms how dumb the TVA system really is... and how no one would question it, even if people have their memories wiped. Making the huge assumption that they take variants from their timelines to replenish their own TVA ranks, there's no indication that they ever lose people on a level that they need to replace them, that agents get old/die, or anything of that sorts. The most logic action would be to just neutralize the variant on the spot or just nuke them with the timeline anyways, as the charade of taking variants through processing to trial to melting servers zero purpose (even if you're trying to recruit to refill your ranks). However, the big flaw is that if none of the TVA agents know they're variants themselves, you would assume that new recruits would have their minds wiped... but then you'd have to wipe all the minds of the TVA agents because they'd know the recruit was a variant. It all seems like way too much effort for what could be done in a more efficient manner that is less prone to issues... but that's how we generate drama in the show, so we gotta pick the more illogical route.

    Just to touch on the fighting scenes slightly: again, they seem forced, and I cannot gauge anyone's power levels accurately because they change each episode depending upon who "needs" to win. The amount of times where their handling of melty batons in fights is just odd, as they're purposefully not trying to hit with the deadliest end... or maybe it's better to say the most effective "I win" end, considering what happens to Loki. There's a lot of shots where you can tell the actors let themselves get hit or taken advantage of, and that's down to bad choreography. Did see an instance or two where it looks like the agents touched the glowing end of their own melty sticks during the fight, but it just shows that not much attention went into getting things right. Overall, it's not TLJ throne room bad, but it's not that great either. If this was a really low budget production, I could let that slide... but it's not.

    Now I will say the Timelords part did give me a laugh, although I don't think that's the vibe they were going for. When they entered the scene and we saw the Timelords, I immediately thought "okay, this is definitely a ruse, they aren't the real Timelords, there's no way this should ever happen this way." This was further enhanced when the Timelords did nothing during the fight, as even I thought the writers couldn't be so silly to make the Timelords that inept and weak. Sure enough, they were mindless androids, and it's all setup to indicate that "zomg, it's a ruse!"... yeah, the setup prior to even seeing the Timelords made it insanely obvious, just entering the room could've told you that. However, why the hell did they use androids? Consider episode 2 and the animated clock that Loki interacts with when going over his TVA agent knowledge... why not use something of that caliber? You know, something that won't break if you throw a stick at it. Why not go with holograms or something, make it like a pseudo-throne room that's actually a communication room because the Timelords are so above and beyond anyone communicating with them that you don't even get to see them in the flesh? No, let's go with Chuck-E-Cheese, because nothing screams authority and power than gaining in-person access to puppets you're trying to pass off as the real thing. I suppose I could say that regardless of what's really going on, whoever is trying to mislead people is doing a really BAD job, and the writers have to make the characters dumb and oblivious for it to even function.

    It's not all negative, as I did enjoy the moment Morbius left the punishment area after declaring to work with Loki to figure out what was going on, only to pop out and get melted by his boss. It had a nice build-up and the hope was plucked just at the right time, and Owen Wilson did a great job making that scene. Unfortunately, this is Disney, and... ahem... no one's every really gone. With the after-credits tease, it just basically says "Don't worry! All those people that just got killed? They're not, they're alive!". I suppose I should say that when Loki got melted at the end, there was no shock value because I know immediately that he's not dead as the show cannot have him die. Morbius was a good execution as he's important enough to the story, but you can be convinced that he could die and the show would move on. However, "killing" Loki completely undermines the Morbius moment.

    Also, in case people forgot about the timeline bombing from the second episode: nope, nothing explained about it, and no one seems to care in the show, let's just forget about it and assume everything was fixed and all is well.


    All in all, the writers had some moments, but in the end they can't get out of their own way. This is classic Disney at this point, setting up a great emotion payoff only to undermine it all because we're too concerned about making the plot happen than making everything mesh together well. Granted they only have 6 episodes in order to accomplish everything, but these past two episodes are bloated with two-person seated dialogue that could be trimmed or cut all together. Maybe cut out on some of the 'comedy' moments to put in some real development, make the script tight so that you don't put your audience to sleep and keep them engaged. A great script wastes nothing and doesn't add superfluous crap, as everything is important and keeps the story moving. Marvel has done pretty close to that in the past within just a movie, which is way less time than the Loki series has to develop characters and the plot into a cohesive product. Instead, it really feels like they came up with the major plot points, and at times they're trying to pad the show while leaving potential development/explanation left by the wayside.

    My prediction? Honestly, I'm having a hard time caring enough at this point as the writing makes it hard to be invested and have a sense of stakes.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-06-30 at 11:07 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post

    It's not all negative, as I did enjoy the moment Morbius left the punishment area after declaring to work with Loki to figure out what was going on, only to pop out and get melted by his boss. It had a nice build-up and the hope was plucked just at the right time, and Owen Wilson did a great job making that scene. Unfortunately, this is Disney, and... ahem... no one's every really gone. With the after-credits tease, it just basically says "Don't worry! All those people that just got killed? They're not, they're alive!". I suppose I should say that when Loki got melted at the end, there was no shock value because I know immediately that he's not dead as the show cannot have him die. Morbius was a good execution as he's important enough to the story, but you can be convinced that he could die and the show would move on. However, "killing" Loki completely undermines the Morbius moment.
    That isn't what the scene said. Instead it confirmed that the baton works similar to the gates they make. And all it did was confirmed the batons themselves are not what kills the variants, but rather the variants are sent to another location where they will die. This is confirmed when one of the alternate Loki's tell our main variant Loki that he isn't dead yet BUT WILL BE. So Mobius may be alive, but I doubt we are going to see a lot of other people who have been hit by the baton.

    And I didn't need the mid credit scene to know that Loki was going to survive somehow, they aren't going to kill off that character in Episode 4 of 6; there was going to be some timey whimey stuff to keep him around.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Still has a high volume of "two people sitting together and talking about feelings/stuff"
    I know, right? It's almost like they wanted to write a show about actual characters, and not just mindless NPCs jumping from one action scene to another. What a bunch of losers.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    And I didn't need the mid credit scene to know that Loki was going to survive somehow, they aren't going to kill off that character in Episode 4 of 6; there was going to be some timey whimey stuff to keep him around.
    There's also the fact that he's in scenes that haven't aired yet based on trailers.

    As for Mobius I'm surprised they did that this episode as I figured if it was going to happen it'd be more toward the finale. Here's hoping he ends up making it through.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I know, right? It's almost like they wanted to write a show about actual characters, and not just mindless NPCs jumping from one action scene to another. What a bunch of losers.
    There's better ways to do it, and this showrunner has picked the bottom of the barrel method. Character study =/= sitting down and talking about feelings for large chunks of a show, as their actions could explain a lot more than words. It's basically around the level of just doing exposition dumps directly spoken out in great length when you can't figure out how to have it organically happen within the narrative. You can have action-packed and still do a great character study, but the whole sitting down and talking about feelings is a trope at this point as it's so overdone and lazy. Even some of my normie friends who will consume anything that's Marvel are falling asleep during this series because the pacing is way off. You can have your moments of levity between people that are sitting down, but there's a limit to how much of your show should be like that... especially if you're just going to bounce back-and-forth between two people just sitting next to each other for extended periods of time.

    If anything, the character development in this series feels way too rushed, forced and inconsistent, especially given the amount of time they have to go into it (especially with Loki). It's rather ironic when better character development has been done with less time than these episodes within the Marvel franchise. Furthermore, the best character moments so far have been when characters were doing things, such as the Morbius scene this episode where his actions and mannerisms conveyed everything you needed to know. Yes, there was talking, but more importantly there was action being done that elevates the content by expressing more than words can do. Unfortunately, most of the sitting down and talking moments either don't add much to the story/development or characters or could've been executed in a better fashion that benefits the TV medium.

    Again, my issue is that the execution is terrible and the show's pacing is off (aside from the writing in general), not that I don't want a character study or that I want more explody-action stuff. When I say that there should be more action, I mean literally anything other than just two people sitting next to each other for long periods of time and alternating the same shot composition over and over. My issue is that with the budget and talent available to Marvel, we should be getting a much higher quality show than what we're getting.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-06-30 at 12:24 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  14. #414
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    There's also the fact that he's in scenes that haven't aired yet based on trailers.

    As for Mobius I'm surprised they did that this episode as I figured if it was going to happen it'd be more toward the finale. Here's hoping he ends up making it through.
    True, but I always doubt trailers as there been trailers that have done altered scenes or scenes that don't appear at all. Disney has done so in the past, but the fact those scene didn't appear and it is Episode 4 together pretty much sealed it wasn't likely Loki died.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Jaimie Alexander is back!
    I heard a rumor that she’s in the next Thor movie too.

  16. #416
    Much better than last week.

    It's still annoying that Loki feels inept and one step behind everyone else in this show. Even a pencil-pushing bureaucrat managed to out-maneuver him today.

    That said, at this point it seems every thing we've learnt through the whole series has been a lie so I'm looking forward to see where this goes.

    (I was getting worried there for a second that Loki & Sylvie would save the whole universe with the power of love)

    - - - Updated - - -

    & Marvel needs to cut this idiocy of putting vital plot points at the end of the credits on the occasional episode but not any others. ALL of NONE Marvel. ALL OR NONE.

    Your average viewer isn't sitting round watching all the credits every week just incase it's different and there's a clip. You know how many people missed the White Vision reveal and were like "WTF Is happening?" at the end of Wandavision?

    I only even saw it by accident today & have to message and warn my family and friends to tell them to stick around in case it's not repeated at the start of next episode.
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2021-06-30 at 01:45 PM.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  17. #417
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Shit went from zero to hundred real fuckign quick with this episode, things happened that i was not expecting especial Mobious being prune after that

    Still pisses me off a bit how their powers don't work in the TVA, for some reason, but And holy shit the end was wild, i don't know how things will be resolved in just two episodes left

    Kinda blow away all the theories we had about everything being an illusion, so that is something, still sad they may never bring up the infinte stones again.

    And what te hell was that, the Loki variants are not pruned? they can't be? that happens to every prunned person? the previous loki who escaped did something to prevent this pruning in specific or all Lokis? wild, there was kid loki, a crocodile loki, an old Loki who look like old HQs portrayed(that was amazing, imagine an old Loki like Odin in power), and a dude with a hammer, that would be Loki if he had the hammer of Thor?

    Also, kinda sad for Kid Sylphie, she prob was considered a nexus because she knew she was adopted too early, unlike the other Loki, just showing the TVa is a doomed organization

  18. #418
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Much better than last week.

    It's still annoying that Loki feels inept and one step behind everyone else in this show. Even a pencil-pushing bureaucrat managed to out-maneuver him today.

    That said, at this point it seems every thing we've learnt through the whole series has been a lie so I'm looking forward to see where this goes.

    (I was getting worried there for a second that Loki & Sylvie would save the whole universe with the power of love)

    - - - Updated - - -

    & Marvel needs to cut this idiocy of putting vital plot points at the end of the credits on the occasional episode but not any others. ALL of NONE Marvel. ALL OR NONE.

    Your average viewer isn't sitting round watching all the credits every week just incase it's different and there's a clip. You know how many people missed the White Vision reveal and were like "WTF Is happening?" at the end of Wandavision?

    I only even saw it by accident today & have to message and warn my family and friends to tell them to stick around in case it's not repeated at the start of next episode.
    If you need the end credit scenes to understand, you aren't paying that much attention to what they are showing you. Even white vision was explained without the need of the scene. It makes it easier to understand but is not required.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Shit went from zero to hundred real fuckign quick with this episode, things happened that i was not expecting [spoiler] especial Mobious being prune after that

    Still pisses me off a bit how their powers don't work in the TVA, for some reason, but And holy shit the end was wild, i don't know how things will be resolved in just two episodes left

    And what te hell was that, the Loki variants are not pruned? they can't be? that happens to every prunned person? the previous loki who escaped did something to prevent this pruning in specific or all Lokis? wild, there was kid loki, a crocodile loki, an old Loki who look like old HQs portrayed(that was amazing, imagine an old Loki like Odin in power), and a dude with a hammer, that would be Loki if he had the hammer of Thor?

    Also, kinda sad for Kid Sylphie, she prob was considered a nexus because she kenw she was adopted too early, unlike the other Loki, just showing the TVa is a doomed organization
    A Loki variant stated when Loki asked "Am I dead?" was "No, but you WILL be if you don't come with us." This clearly implies the pruning isn't what kills directly, but rather these variants are sent to an area to be killed.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #419
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    (I was getting worried there for a second that Loki & Sylvie would save the whole universe with the power of love
    well, technically they would break the whole universe and timeline using that power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    A Loki variant stated when Loki asked "Am I dead?" was "No, but you WILL be if you don't come with us." This clearly implies the pruning isn't what kills directly, but rather these variants are sent to an area to be killed.
    it may be that, or something else, we did get quite a few surprises in this show. If The scarlet witch is a nexus event, maybe other lokis too are, but in a different way.

  20. #420
    So.. who really owns the TVA
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

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