Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #741
    The show is called loki, but it wasn't really about the loki we cared about. I thought he was being sidelined in his own show, but I guess he wasn't if it wasn't actually his show to begin with. Too bad. This incarnation feels tired and just along for the ride with little in the way of agency or power.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    For us the viewers to be convinced the TVA is universe-spanning they sure do 100% of their everything on Earth set to completely mundane set pieces and are all humans.

    Also weird Thor doesn't know what a Raccoon is but Loki knows what an Alligator is, looks like we know which of the two studied interplanetary biology and genus classification in college.
    Huh? We saw multiple references to events at places other than Earth in the TVA. Lots of Easter Eggs for places from MCU films.

  3. #743
    Warchief Nero Duskwind's Avatar
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    Sooo, considering that Sylvie killing Immortus (He Who Remains) unleashes an infinitude of Nathaniel Richards variants including Kang the Conqueror, does this open up the possibility that we may also see a younger heroic variant that eventually becomes Iron Lad?
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  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    The show is called loki, but it wasn't really about the loki we cared about. I thought he was being sidelined in his own show, but I guess he wasn't if it wasn't actually his show to begin with. Too bad. This incarnation feels tired and just along for the ride with little in the way of agency or power.
    It's about his journey as a character - in the last episode alone he is given the choice of getting the win he always wanted (King Loki), becoming a selfless leader of the TVA and the custodian of time or a destroyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Duskwind View Post
    Sooo, considering that Sylvie killing Immortus (He Who Remains) unleashes an infinitude of Nathaniel Richards variants including Kang the Conqueror, does this open up the possibility that we may also see a younger heroic variant that eventually becomes Iron Lad?
    Well, Phase 4 will go on for like 3+ years, and it seemingly ends with Fantastic Four (unless they announce more stuff).
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  5. #745
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    For us the viewers to be convinced the TVA is universe-spanning they sure do 100% of their everything on Earth set to completely mundane set pieces and are all humans.
    Humans, or at least people that look human, are frickin' everywhere in the cosmos in the Marvel universe. This was already established in the Guardians of the Galaxy films.

    Also, Earth is cosmically important in the Marvel setting.

    Also weird Thor doesn't know what a Raccoon is but Loki knows what an Alligator is, looks like we know which of the two studied interplanetary biology and genus classification in college.
    Or which of the two actually paid attention in classes. What part of Thor made you think he paid attention to lessons that weren't about smiting things with a hammer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    The show is called loki, but it wasn't really about the loki we cared about. I thought he was being sidelined in his own show, but I guess he wasn't if it wasn't actually his show to begin with. Too bad. This incarnation feels tired and just along for the ride with little in the way of agency or power.
    Except, y'know, all the significant displays of power, apparently. Particularly as Loki was never really about such big displays of brute force to begin with.

    Also, every Loki in this is just as much Loki as "our" Loki. Who isn't the Loki who was choked to death by Thanos and had the big redemption arc with his brother, I might add. This Loki diverged pretty much immediately after the first Avengers film, and never lived through the events of Thor: The Dark World, Thor: Ragnarok, or Avengers: Infinity War.


  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Duskwind View Post
    Sooo, considering that Sylvie killing Immortus (He Who Remains) unleashes an infinitude of Nathaniel Richards variants including Kang the Conqueror, does this open up the possibility that we may also see a younger heroic variant that eventually becomes Iron Lad?
    Young Avengers definitely seems like it’s coming. As for who will be involved… anyone’s guess right now.

  7. #747
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Duskwind View Post
    Sooo, considering that Sylvie killing Immortus (He Who Remains) unleashes an infinitude of Nathaniel Richards variants including Kang the Conqueror, does this open up the possibility that we may also see a younger heroic variant that eventually becomes Iron Lad?
    Definitely going to be a character(s) designed to show up in many shows/movies, so hopefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    The show is called loki, but it wasn't really about the loki we cared about. I thought he was being sidelined in his own show, but I guess he wasn't if it wasn't actually his show to begin with. Too bad. This incarnation feels tired and just along for the ride with little in the way of agency or power.
    Its definitely about Loki but using multiple Loki's to introduce Kang will help people understand Kang down the road.

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  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    The show is called loki, but it wasn't really about the loki we cared about. I thought he was being sidelined in his own show, but I guess he wasn't if it wasn't actually his show to begin with. Too bad. This incarnation feels tired and just along for the ride with little in the way of agency or power.
    What? That's not at all true though. He's the character we tracked all the way through, he's the character who faced the enormous temptation at the end, and he's the character who'd proven he'd grown by rejecting it for something larger than himself. Absolutely no one who had ever met him, save maybe his mother, would have believed the decision he made at the end. You think that because he wasn't the one to unleash the apocalypse, that means he was sidelined? It was his story start to finish, and they absolutely nailed it. This series was a cut above anything Marvel has done.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I'll try to explain it as simply as possible, as I find it insanely easy to find the major flaws in their time issues. Even in your responses shows the contradictions.

    <big snip>
    What you go into detail about, I just lump into timey-wimey and be done with it. Based upon what we saw in the show, TVA is train A, chugging along on a track, and the sacred timeline is train B, for which they can see the start to some point (i’m betting Kang’s first contact with himself, or one who remains birth so he is the only kang that exists).

    So if they are pruning train B, then how did it go along far enough to produce a classic Loki, who must have existed for centuries? That is to say, it diverged, but it wasn’t noticed? Sacred timeline means one timeline, not branches that are allowed to grow and see what happens, because they already know what happens since they are looking ostensibly at all of time. What the TVA SEEMS to really be doing is building train B, and if train B didn’t go where they wanted, grabbing an eraser and building it again. That makes more sense for the results of things, and the narrative we are given, but isn’t what we are shown. They are protecting the sacred timeline, not building it. I think there’s just a hand waved explanation of what the TVA is doing to tell a story (which I mostly enjoyed) and not getting into details to where it makes sense. So they get a timey-whimey stamp from me, but I don’t find it THAT egregious. I mean, we’re not getting into Flash territory here.

    Now the final scene? Killing the one who remains (which as a long time comic fan, I’m calling immortus) caused something to either happen to the TVA train, or Loki is on another TVA train (former seems more likely). Which means Loki truly is a character disconnected from time, so I wonder how that plays out in season 2. Would also logically mean that Ravenna would remember the old TVA if this one was altered to be Kang protecting his existence since she wasn’t in it at the time of alteration.

  10. #750
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    So if they are pruning train B, then how did it go along far enough to produce a classic Loki, who must have existed for centuries? That is to say, it diverged, but it wasn’t noticed? Sacred timeline means one timeline, not branches that are allowed to grow and see what happens, because they already know what happens since they are looking ostensibly at all of time.
    One of the subtle touches which is only tangentially made clear, through the way the screens display the timeline and the way the raw timeline itself is shown, is that the timeline isn't one single line, and there's a deviance tolerance measurement the TVA uses. The strong implication (because they're not outright saying so, either way) is that the "sacred timeline" can actually be multiple timelines that all fall within tolerances. They wind among each other, and being kicked out of one such strand and into another would probably not even be noticeable. "Was there always a Starbucks on that corner?" kind of stuff.

    So I think the idea with deviations like Classic Loki is that his presence on that asteroid didn't really change anything. His timeline remained close enough to the "trunk" to avoid pruning. Until he decided to get involved again, and then that choice made his strand diverge and made him Variant enough for the TVA to notice. Until that point, his strand was "within tolerances", so to speak.

    If Kang's intent is just to prevent other, divergent Kangs from existing, then it's all about ensuring a Kang like himself is the only Kang there is. That's literally the only objective. Other variations that don't affect that outcome can be ignored.


  11. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, it’s looking like we may see more of him than the usual villains. I welcome this.
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  12. #752
    Interesting setup for the explosion of everything for the next few movies. Ending shot gave me some serious Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes vibes.
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  13. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    For us the viewers to be convinced the TVA is universe-spanning they sure do 100% of their everything on Earth set to completely mundane set pieces and are all humans.

    Also weird Thor doesn't know what a Raccoon is but Loki knows what an Alligator is, looks like we know which of the two studied interplanetary biology and genus classification in college.
    Thor isn't the only Asgardian that doesn't know what a Racoon is. In Endgame, when Rocket is being chased the guard says "Get that rabbit."
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  14. #754
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  15. #755
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Huh? We saw multiple references to events at places other than Earth in the TVA. Lots of Easter Eggs for places from MCU films.
    I liked on the screen the extremely specific Earth locales (Alabama, USA, Earth) then the other places are literally (Sakaar, Vormir, Asgard).

    Also the TVA did all their things on Earth. It was only Loki and Sylvie who visited Lamentis and the void (Mobius briefly)

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I liked on the screen the extremely specific Earth locales (Alabama, USA, Earth) then the other places are literally (Sakaar, Vormir, Asgard).

    Also the TVA did all their things on Earth. It was only Loki and Sylvie who visited Lamentis and the void (Mobius briefly)
    Really? I didn’t realize Sylvie was raised on Earth! And Old Loki’s empty planet was Earth apparently. I wonder what happened to it in his timeline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Thor isn't the only Asgardian that doesn't know what a Racoon is. In Endgame, when Rocket is being chased the guard says "Get that rabbit."
    Didn’t Ego call him a fox or some shit too? My bad, Ego called him a triangle-faced monkey.
    Last edited by Vegas82; 2021-07-15 at 11:36 AM.

  17. #757
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Humans, or at least people that look human, are frickin' everywhere in the cosmos in the Marvel universe. This was already established in the Guardians of the Galaxy films.

    Also, Earth is cosmically important in the Marvel setting.



    Or which of the two actually paid attention in classes. What part of Thor made you think he paid attention to lessons that weren't about smiting things with a hammer?



    Except, y'know, all the significant displays of power, apparently. Particularly as Loki was never really about such big displays of brute force to begin with.

    Also, every Loki in this is just as much Loki as "our" Loki. Who isn't the Loki who was choked to death by Thanos and had the big redemption arc with his brother, I might add. This Loki diverged pretty much immediately after the first Avengers film, and never lived through the events of Thor: The Dark World, Thor: Ragnarok, or Avengers: Infinity War.
    When GotG showed their version of an intergalactic metropolis AKA Zandar it was a varied mix of humans (called Terrans btw) and aliens to kinda give the idea we aren't in Kansas anymore.

    Then the TVA, universally active and apparently capable of traversing the universe, coincidentally find themselves in United States each episode. Wisconsin at a fairground, Alabama at a hurricane, Ohio to find Renslayer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Thor isn't the only Asgardian that doesn't know what a Racoon is. In Endgame, when Rocket is being chased the guard says "Get that rabbit."
    Maybe Asgard has Alligators but not raccoons.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Maybe Asgard has Alligators but not raccoons.
    Even Ego, who spent some time on Earth, didn’t know what a raccoon was. Seems like they’re pretty uncommon in the galaxy.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    When GotG showed their version of an intergalactic metropolis AKA Zandar it was a varied mix of humans (called Terrans btw) and aliens to kinda give the idea we aren't in Kansas anymore.

    Then the TVA, universally active and apparently capable of traversing the universe, coincidentally find themselves in United States each episode. Wisconsin at a fairground, Alabama at a hurricane, Ohio to find Renslayer.
    And Pompeii in the US, and the Planet Lamentis in the US, and Medieval France in the US... hm...

    The guy who created the TVA was from Earth. Earth has been at the center of two cosmic catastrophes (Dormamu and Thanos) in just 10 years. The more cosmic importance the more potential for Nexus events. What's the issue here, exactly? Maybe Kang's a racist and only takes in human Variants. What exactly does that matter?

    Edit: Like everyone, I forgot Dark World. 3. 3 Cosmic catastrophes.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2021-07-15 at 11:50 AM.

  20. #760
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Even Ego, who spent some time on Earth, didn’t know what a raccoon was. Seems like they’re pretty uncommon in the galaxy.
    Rocket doesn't even know what a racoon is. He literally asks Quill "What's a racoon?" when Quill calls him that in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1.
    The only characters to call Rocket a racoon that I can name are Quill and Groot (but would Groot even technically count?)

    It is sort of a running joke that Rocket isn't called a racoon. He has been called rat, hamster, monkey, rodent, and fox in additional to rabbit.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-07-15 at 11:53 AM.
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    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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