Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #781
    Ok, I'm too much of a smooth brain to follow this evidently.

    So was the TVA actually pruning universes all this time? Did the show use universe and timeline interchangeably (because I didn't get that impression at all until the very end)?

    Because if that is the case it makes way more sense for classic comics loki to exist and the enchantress to have been always female. If it isn't I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  2. #782
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Ok, I'm too much of a smooth brain to follow this evidently.

    So was the TVA actually pruning universes all this time? Did the show use universe and timeline interchangeably (because I didn't get that impression at all until the very end)?

    Because if that is the case it makes way more sense for classic comics loki to exist and the enchantress to have been always female. If it isn't I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
    Any "timeline" is its own "universe", yes. They're distinguished along their temporal axis.

    Those universes may be highly similar to each other, but now that the TVA's shackles are off, you can also get wildly divergent universes. Which brings us to stuff like you see in Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. Especially Spider-Ham.


  3. #783
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Ok, I'm too much of a smooth brain to follow this evidently.

    So was the TVA actually pruning universes all this time? Did the show use universe and timeline interchangeably (because I didn't get that impression at all until the very end)?

    Because if that is the case it makes way more sense for classic comics loki to exist and the enchantress to have been always female. If it isn't I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
    From what I gathered is that at some point Kang isolated his timeline and had the gas cloud shark thing literally devour the realities (alternate universes) that branched from it. From there it was simply a matter of identifying Nexus events that would branch off and create alternate universes.

    It's interesting when he's explaining it to Loki and Silvie because if you're not looking at the flow of time from the outside it would appear that the universes are stacked when they're actually branches from one source, which is what he initially assumed when he stumbled on the other universes.
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  4. #784
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Probably reading too much into it, honestly; a time line is necessarily gonna look serpentine, since snakes are basically lines, too.
    No, I mean when "you know who" was explaining his past with the small figures the final one was holding a ring that symbolized the Sacred Timeline. And if I'm thinking right there's a ring around the mansion that is the Sacred Timeline.

  5. #785
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Dude it’s six 40 minute episodes. Which cost money to make and were filmed during a global pandemic.

    I think we can forgive them for not showing the Kree Branch Office which is staffed entirely by Yonn-Rogg Variants. If you’re a big Jude Law fan send mail to Disney requesting a KreeTVA series. Each version of Yonn-Rogg will have a different facial hair style thus allowing Law to really experiment with the character.
    They coulda just dyed like... one supporting actor blue for a brief 4 second walk across the screen.

    "oh look, an alien! I guess they do have non-Earth variants within their ranks"

  6. #786
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    They coulda just dyed like... one supporting actor blue for a brief 4 second walk across the screen.

    "oh look, an alien! I guess they do have non-Earth variants within their ranks"
    That doesn't even make sense as a hypothetical.

    First, the TVA is run by an Earthling to ensure his many Earth-born variants don't ever exist. His focus is, explicitly, Earth.
    Second, the TVA is frackin' huge, and we only see one tiny fraction where everyone's office is apparently within walking distance of each other. Basically the same building. It's entirely possible that the TVA is just regionally coded, so that Kree variants are policing Kree worlds, where they can fit in more easily and cause less divergence merely for existing. For example. Repeat for every other alien type.
    Third, we know a lot of humans live off Earth. And that a lot of "alien" species look exactly like humans (see Asgardians and some Kree).

    It wouldn't have served the story. The story was not about the TVA. They weren't even the villains; they were a tool created by the villain. One which was repeatedly shown to be flawed.


  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    They coulda just dyed like... one supporting actor blue for a brief 4 second walk across the screen.

    "oh look, an alien! I guess they do have non-Earth variants within their ranks"
    Loki already provides the non-Earth variant in their ranks. Or did you miss that part?

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Loki already provides the non-Earth variant in their ranks. Or did you miss that part?
    Also a really good catch. Though Loki's technically not an agent; he's not mind-wiped and he's theoretically just on a suspended sentence and could be executed at any time.


  9. #789
    Even if all agents were Asgardian we'd never know^^ Just because someone looks human in the MCU doesn't mean they are human.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also a really good catch. Though Loki's technically not an agent; he's not mind-wiped and he's theoretically just on a suspended sentence and could be executed at any time.
    In the comics it was manned by all human-type employees anyway. A big part of me is hoping for a shit ton of Owen Wilson clones and a lot of faceless bureaucrats in season 2 with a few hold overs from season 1 as unique characters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Even if all agents were Asgardian we'd never know^^ Just because someone looks human in the MCU doesn't mean they are human.
    Bingo. Lots of aliens look like Earthlings. Doesn’t mean they’re from Earth. Maybe they just find that after wiping memories it’s easiest without a ton of different looking species.

  11. #791
    Eh, kind of a dud finale. Pretty boring. Though I enjoy Majors' work, I did not overly enjoy this version of Kang.
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  12. #792
    Warchief Nero Duskwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Last night's finale totally confused me. Who was that black dude? The ultimate time God or something? And when lady Loki kills him does she become the ultimate God of time now?

    And the very end, so Loki sees a statue of that black time God guy. What's the meaning of that?

    And Owen Wilson doesn't know who Loki is at the end, does that mean Loki was transported back to some other timeline?

    I'm lost. LOL.
    Black dude at the end is Nathaniel Richards, 31st century descendant of Reed Richards (aka Mr. Fantastic). He explained his own backstory: He discovered an infinitude of parallel realities running concurrent with our own. His variants inevitably make the same discovery and they organize into a multiversal council that brings prosperity to all the timelines until some of the variants decide they're better off conquering and ruling timelines and all-out war breaks out. The last Nathaniel Richards left standing, He Who Remains, is the one Sylvie and Loki are dealing with. He created the TVA to suppress the other timelines through enforcement of a cosmic predestination loop; Variants that strayed too far from their intended role could destabilize the loop and reignite the multiversal war. He Who Remains fears his variants, most notably Kang the Conqueror, whose statue you see in the rebooted TVA that Loki reappears to. Basically, in the instant Sylvie killed He Who Remains, Kang is unleashed and has imposed his will on the TVA and the timeline, aeons of cosmic war engaged and ended in the blink of an eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I'm still confused;

    - Lady Loki kills Kang the Conqueror, does she become the new time lord and ultimate controller?

    - Loki gets transported back to the TVA, but it's not the same TVA, no one recognizes who is his? A different timeline?

    - The end, where the it shows Loki looking at a statue of Kang the Conqueror, what's the meaning of that?

    - And where does this lead us to season 2?
    Sylvie killed He Who Remains to return free will to the multiverse; the consequence of her actions is she unleashed Kang the Conqueror and who knows how many other evil tyrannical variants of him.

    Everything else was summed up earlier. Season 1 finale basically established the Marvel Multiverse, potentially canonizing Fox's X-Men Universe and the Sonyverse (Venom, Morbius, etc) into the MCU, and setting the table Marvel's next major event: the Secret Wars. Season 2 will most definitely be building on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It's MCU trailers, everything in there is either not fully representative of what happens or a lie (Seriously infinity war trailer had Hulk in every other scene or something that wasn't in the movie). At least it does not tell the whole story style of trailers that have been the norm for the last 30 years.
    Personally I like the misdirects Marvel takes with all their trailers. In a world where studios are so desperate to get you to see their films that they basically tell the whole story and spoil the twist in the trailer (looking at you Terminator: Genisys), Marvel is smart to be deceptive.
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  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Duskwind View Post
    Everything else was summed up earlier. Season 1 finale basically established the Marvel Multiverse, potentially canonizing Fox's X-Men Universe and the Sonyverse (Venom, Morbius, etc) into the MCU, and setting the table Marvel's next major event: the Secret Wars. Season 2 will most definitely be building on this.
    I want to kind of underline that there is no way on God's green Earth that Marvel Films is going to canonize the Fox X-men franchise. They faded off SUPER hard and even the "good ones" don't hold up compared to the MCU. And the bad ones, c'mon.

    They might bring those characters to the MCU, but likely with recasting (at least, the older actors, the "First Class" set could potentially make the leap). Not the films.

    The same standard I wouldn't apply to Sony, though, because Sony's in a weird little relationship tied to Tom Holland's Spider-Man. Those are canon, but the other stuff is meant to be the same universe as far as I'm aware, so maybe canon?

    I'd love to see Tom Hardy's Venom come stomping into an MCU film, honestly. The first of those was absolutely nuts and would not possibly work without what Hardy brought to it, but it somehow pulls it off. I'm hoping Sony and Marvel can work that out; it'd be nice to see different studios doing "side canon", even if they stick with the MCU in Earth-199999 and make the Sonyverse it's own "thing" outside of Spider-Man.

    They should also reach out to the folks behind Into the Spider-Verse. Mitchells vs. The Machines proved they weren't just a one-trick pony, IMO.


  14. #794
    Warchief Nero Duskwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The same standard I wouldn't apply to Sony, though, because Sony's in a weird little relationship tied to Tom Holland's Spider-Man. Those are canon, but the other stuff is meant to be the same universe as far as I'm aware, so maybe canon?

    I'd love to see Tom Hardy's Venom come stomping into an MCU film, honestly. The first of those was absolutely nuts and would not possibly work without what Hardy brought to it, but it somehow pulls it off. I'm hoping Sony and Marvel can work that out; it'd be nice to see different studios doing "side canon", even if they stick with the MCU in Earth-199999 and make the Sonyverse it's own "thing" outside of Spider-Man.
    Multiverse plot definitely makes things easier for Sony and Marvel as far as cooperating towards a greater collective goal while achieving their own cinematic interests. It would be nice if NBCUniversal took notes and chose to be more cooperative with the film rights they still own over Hulk's solo adventures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    They coulda just dyed like... one supporting actor blue for a brief 4 second walk across the screen.

    "oh look, an alien! I guess they do have non-Earth variants within their ranks"
    And what would that have accomplished in terms of the narrative?

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Last night's finale totally confused me. Who was that black dude? The ultimate time God or something? And when lady Loki kills him does she become the ultimate God of time now?

    And the very end, so Loki sees a statue of that black time God guy. What's the meaning of that?

    And Owen Wilson doesn't know who Loki is at the end, does that mean Loki was transported back to some other timeline?

    I'm lost. LOL.
    This isn't as much Lady Loki as it merging a Loki variant with Enchantress.

  17. #797
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Does any one know if the marvel multiverse works with time traveling/lines creating a new verse or are all of the verses self contained and then have there own time travel/line verses? Like is 616 time travel all in its own 616 bubble or do all the different events create there own verses?

    I feel given how many comics I’ve read and how many involve time travel I should know the answer yet I can’t for the life of me remember if it’s ever addressed.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Last night's finale totally confused me. Who was that black dude? The ultimate time God or something? And when lady Loki kills him does she become the ultimate God of time now?

    And the very end, so Loki sees a statue of that black time God guy. What's the meaning of that?

    And Owen Wilson doesn't know who Loki is at the end, does that mean Loki was transported back to some other timeline?

    I'm lost. LOL.
    You should have been paying more attention to when the black dude was talking...he explains everything.

    To sum it up...he gave them two choices:

    a) Kill him...and that will create a new time-war...because there is nobody there to prune the diverging timelines and eventually another version of him will come along and setup a new TVA.

    b) Take his place...they will be the ones in charge of maintaining the "sacred timeline"

    Sylvie killed him...which set off the new time war and now there's a new variant in charge...only this one isn't hiding behind the "Timekeepers"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Does any one know if the marvel multiverse works with time traveling creating a new verse or are all of the verses self contained and then have there own time travel verses? Like is 616 time travel all in its own 616 bubble or do all the different events create there own verses?

    I feel given how many comics I’ve read and how many involve time travel I should know the answer yet I can’t for the life of me remember if it’s ever addressed.
    In the comics, it really depends on what the writer wants to happen. Sometimes it creates a new timeline, sometimes it affects the main timeline.

  19. #799
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    In the comics, it really depends on what the writer wants to happen. Sometimes it creates a new timeline, sometimes it affects the main timeline.
    Ya that’s how it tends to be but I’m wondering if the new timelines ever get to be there own verse like how the 616 and ultimate and two different verses. Like could cable take a wrong turn some where and be in the ultimate universe or would he always be in a variation of 616.

    The only real solid cross over I can think of is the old man Logan verse coming into 616 though time travel but that was after it was more or less fused after battle world so I have no clue if that would count.

    All other cases I can think of are multiverse stuff but time travel related.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ya that’s how it tends to be but I’m wondering if the new timelines ever get to be there own verse like how the 616 and ultimate and two different verses. Like could cable take a wrong turn some where and be in the ultimate universe or would he always be in a variation of 616.

    The only real solid cross over I can think of is the old man Logan verse coming into 616 though time travel but that was after it was more or less fused after battle world so I have no clue if that would count.

    All other cases I can think of are multiverse stuff but time travel related.
    THere's a ready made example of that with Vance Astrovik.

    Fictional character biography

    Vance Astrovik was born in Saugerties, New York. He was visited as a teenager by an alternate, time traveling version of his future self, Major Vance Astro of the Guardians of the Galaxy, an astronaut who had volunteered for an experimental space flight and consequently been lost in space in cryogenic suspension for a thousand years. The elder Vance Astro convinced his younger self to not become an astronaut, and in the process, sparked the premature emergence of the younger Vance's telekinetic powers.[6] Due to the vagaries of time travel in the Marvel Universe, this did not create a paradox, but instead made the Guardians' future world into a parallel timeline, to which they later returned. Although Major Vance Astro had not had a chance to fully develop his psionic power in his time in NASA, the younger Astrovik now had the opportunity to hone his power. Astrovik soon became the costumed crime-fighter Marvel Boy.

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