Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #901
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I mean, considering all the people and timelines he destroyed it’s hard to think of him as anything else. Sure, he was “ending the multiversal war”, but he also basically committed universal genocide repeatedly. That’s not exactly a good guy.
    He is saving us from himself!

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  2. #902
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Right now we're comparing "my personal experience" with "your lack of any personal experience on which to base any position whatsoever".
    one of your problems is how you are so high in that high horse of yours you can't se shit even if its throed at your face, for what? defending the Mcu inconsistencies.

    Of course, resorting to fallacies because you are running out of arguments
    No. You didn't. There was not any example of anyone being shocked by any wire. That did not at any point happen in that scene. You are making that up.

    I literally went back and watched the scene myself to be sure. I have Disney+ and can access it right from this computer so it's not like it's hard to double-check.


    Are you saying this scene, - of the guy chocking loki with the eletric wire of a vacuum cleaner didn't exist and i am making this scene up?

    did i got the actors to pose for me to take a pic or i am a rly good photoshop guy right?

    You're missing that 1> neither of them is fighting to win, Sylvie is just wasting Loki's time and Loki's trying to talk to Sylvie, 2> Roombas are actually pretty hefty, and 3> there isn't even any need for this guy to have super strength to represent anything that happens in the scene in the first place.
    1> it makes no sense, and no one is being throw around like that to "gain time", or to win, sylvie "wining" would ultimately work better than just stall for time, so saying she was not fighting to win is an non argument, saying loki was fighting to look for answer also is pointless as the time he would spend asking question he is trying to get up from the beating, 2: regardless of they being hard they, were supposed to, at least, be damaged by, your owna rgument, of "hysterical strenght", plus, his arm should get trough the tv witht hat kind of strenght and, 3> iyes, it is needed because Loki is a frost giant, not another human.

    Unless you are confirming That dude, is stronger than Captain america, you know, the super soldier, who was not able to do that.
    [/B]I have not once made a claim that Loki was a simple human.
    For you saying, a mere human, he is capable of doing that with a frost giant, yes.




    Captain america punching loki, throwing his shield and Loki was not even flinching

    One hit of his spear was enough to make Captain america fly away

    A power kick from captain america barely made Loki flinch, he was not throw away.

    Loki with his barehands send Steven flying away.

    Let alone in the entire movie showing he have good reflexes like catching cap shield and the arrows from Clint

    BUT SURE, he was not nerfed, the fight makes totally sense and The random guy in the market is stronger than the super soldier
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-20 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    Are you saying scene, - of the guy shcoking loki witht he eltric wire of a vacuum clenar didn't exist and i am making this scene up?

    did i got the actors to pose for me to take a pic or i am a rly good photoshop guy right? cause this is the level of your arguments.

    Literally the only person who thinks that is you. You're just wrong about this.
    What we have here...is a failure to communicate.

    In English, that action is called 'choking'. What you wrote looks, to an English speaker, like 'shocking' which would be someone getting electrocuted (which definitely didn't happen in the show).

  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    He is saving us from himself!
    Could of found a better way then again this is Marvel with cosmic entities out there. If a multiverse war ever errupted surely one of them could at least bother to do something or investigate? That said I expect the multiverse starting up will get messy(Doesn't mean it will happen) when its being suppressed so to speak.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    What we have here...is a failure to communicate.

    In English, that action is called 'choking'. What you wrote looks, to an English speaker, like 'shocking' which would be someone getting electrocuted (which definitely didn't happen in the show).
    Ah, thats a typo, i know that, but im dyslexic so the words get confused with a small screen, i will correct

  6. #906
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Captain america punching loki, throwing his shield and Loki was not even flinching

    One hit of his spear was enough to make Captain america fly away

    A power kick from captain america barely made Loki flinch, he was not throw away.

    Loki with his barehands send Steven flying away.

    Let alone in the entire movie showing he have good reflexes like catching cap shield and the arrows from Clint

    BUT SURE, he was not nerfed, the fight makes totally sense and The random guy in the market is stronger than the super soldier
    Not having an Infinity Stone to draw energy from does vastly reduce Loki's power, yes.

    All you're arguing here is that "Loki - Infinity Stone" < "Loki + Infinity Stone". Which should be obvious and go without saying.


  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Not having an Infinity Stone to draw energy from does vastly reduce Loki's power, yes.

    All you're arguing here is that "Loki - Infinity Stone" < "Loki + Infinity Stone". Which should be obvious and go without saying.
    Ah yes, the mind stone, the one who grants whoever holds it complete control over the hearts and minds of others., sure made him physically stronger, something the power stone would do.

    Thats, of course, why he left that spear away for the avengers to close the portal, cause he wanted to be weaker.

    Let alone how he fought Thor without an infinite stone, yeah, keep going, bring more nonsense to explain away those things, i wonder what it will be next.

  8. #908
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Ah yes, the mind stone, the one who grants whoever holds it complete control over the hearts and minds of others., sure made him physically stronger, something the power stone would do.
    The Stones do a lot of things. Not just one thing. For instance, how the Space stone gave Carol Danvers cosmic powers. See also Vision's big mind-laser, that comes straight from the Mind Stone, originally.

    Thats, of course, why he left that spear away for the avengers to close the portal, cause he wanted to be weaker.
    He lost it while fighting Thor. He couldn't afford to spend time looking around for it. He didn't "leave it" in the sense of putting it down to come back and get it later. Literally drops it and immediately runs away from Thor, who was winning their 1v1. He couldn't stand up to his brother even with the spear.

    Let alone how he fought Thor without an infinite stone, yeah, keep going, bring more nonsense to explain away those things, i wonder what it will be next.
    In that scene on top of Avengers Tower?

    He's got the Mind Stone in the scepter the whole time. The moment he doesn't have it, Thor beats him handily, and Loki flees. Even after Loki's just stabbed him with a dagger. From there, there's just Loki flying around and getting snookered by Clint's bomb arrow, and then Hulk slamming him around. It's right around 1:46:30; Loki and Thor are locked up, Thor appeals to Loki's sense of family, Loki stabs him and mocks him for appealing to "Sentiment", and then Thor grabs the staff and kicks Loki through a pane of glass. Loki rolls off the edge onto a Chitauri flyer, and he's off, leaving the staff, which he'd dropped when Thor kicked him off it.

    He had the Stone and was actively using it against Thor that entire fight. Even the energy blasts he's firing are blue, from the scepter, not Loki's magic, which is green.

    You're wrong about what happened.


  9. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Could of found a better way then again this is Marvel with cosmic entities out there. If a multiverse war ever errupted surely one of them could at least bother to do something or investigate? That said I expect the multiverse starting up will get messy(Doesn't mean it will happen) when its being suppressed so to speak.
    Marvel has 101 excuses on deck to explain why a cosmic entity does or does not intervene.

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  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I mean, considering all the people and timelines he destroyed it’s hard to think of him as anything else. Sure, he was “ending the multiversal war”, but he also basically committed universal genocide repeatedly. That’s not exactly a good guy.
    He also literally says "we're all villains here." He knows what he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Marvel has 101 excuses on deck to explain why a cosmic entity does or does not intervene.
    Right? I mean they've had decades worth of practice in the comics doing exactly that.

  11. #911
    I mean, this is why I can't consider myself a comic fan. The arguments are ridiculous.

    Powerlevels solely exist for spectacle, in comics. But they go away when the character needs to struggle, and actually go through a character arc. This has been the tale of comic book storytelling for like, 80 years, guys.

    Like, holy shit this shit is pedantic.

  12. #912
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The Stones do a lot of things. Not just one thing. For instance, how the Space stone gave Carol Danvers cosmic powers. See also Vision's big mind-laser, that comes straight from the Mind Stone, originally.
    And the mind stone granting him physical power is something you made up just now, a headcanon, which is ironic since you acuse me of that so much

    He lost it while fighting Thor. He couldn't afford to spend time looking around for it. He didn't "leave it" in the sense of putting it down to come back and get it later. Literally drops it and immediately runs away from Thor, who was winning their 1v1. He couldn't stand up to his brother even with the spear.
    It was something important that make him stronger and he just "could not afford to spend time" loking for it? come on

    Youa lready implied the random dude in the market was stronger than captain america, now he is in the same lv of An asgardian, aka loki.
    In that scene on top of Avengers Tower?
    Im talking about the Thor movie while they both fought in the bifrost, Loki didn't had the mindstone and their fights were pretty much the same. there and in the avengers tower.

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And the mind stone granting him physical power is something you made up just now, a headcanon, which is ironic since you acuse me of that so much



    It was something important that make him stronger and he just "could not afford to spend time" loking for it? come on

    Youa lready implied the random dude in the market was stronger than captain america, now he is in the same lv of An asgardian, aka loki.


    Im talking about the Thor movie while they both fought in the bifrost, Loki didn't had the mindstone and their fights were pretty much the same. there and in the avengers tower.
    Stones don’t only provide powers directly related to their element. See Captain Marvel’s strength for reference.

  14. #914
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean, this is why I can't consider myself a comic fan. The arguments are ridiculous.

    Powerlevels solely exist for spectacle, in comics. But they go away when the character needs to struggle, and actually go through a character arc. This has been the tale of comic book storytelling for like, 80 years, guys.

    Like, holy shit this shit is pedantic.
    I mean, that is literally why im pointing, they nerfed Loki to make him go to the struggle arc, they forget or ignored he is a frost giant with asgardian levels of strength.

    But the other guy is flat out saying the nerf didn't happen and there is consistency when, clearly, there is not.

    Thankfully that didn't ruin my enjoyment of the show, but still sucks, and for sure is one of the bad points on it, that hopefully, gets better in season 2.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-20 at 05:15 AM.

  15. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Not having an Infinity Stone to draw energy from does vastly reduce Loki's power, yes.

    All you're arguing here is that "Loki - Infinity Stone" < "Loki + Infinity Stone". Which should be obvious and go without saying.
    Without the Infinity Stone Loki was still able to use magic and still able to read minds.

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I mean, that is literally why im pointing, they nerfed Loki to make him go to the struggle arc, they forget or ignored he is a frost giant with asgardian levels of strength.

    But the other guy is flat out saying the nerf didn't happen and there is consistency when, clearly, there is not.

    Thankfully that didn't ruin my enjoyment of the show, but still sucks, and for sure is one of the bad points on it, that hopefully, gets better in season 2.
    If inconsistent powerlevels between different stories about the same character bother you, then you probably shouldn't bother with comics or any works derived off comics at all.

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If inconsistent powerlevels between different stories about the same character bother you, then you probably shouldn't bother with comics or any works derived off comics at all.
    Can't wait for She-Hulk's premiere on Disney+ when Bruce Banner Hulk needs help opening a jar of pickles.

  18. #918
    The good old Superman paradox, the unstoppable god among humans that get eventually beaten by....well, by everyone ( including Alfred).

    It's a natural consequence of how the genre is presented: heroes need a challenge, you just can't do a story about "Villain appears, hero gets there and beats his ass. End" so if you want to have high powered heroes there have to be an element in the plot that introduces the challenge (not every story can be about Darkseid and Thanos) and that's how writters work: 90% of the stories are about the hero finding the weakness of the villain or his motivation...ultimately finding the right tactic. Superhero stories are about finding "the plan".

    Now, it's true that some writters do it right and some others not so much but we are talking about characters with decades of stories, hundreds of different writters....it's only natural that some dropped the ball and the problem gets aggravated with the existence of a hundred quatrillion alternate universes and future timelines that intersects at some point with Earth Prime in what it is sometimes an incoherent cacophony.

    The thing is...this is not what the genre is about. The genre is about the awe factor not about coherence. Has always been , will always be.

    But if you are interested in some form of coherence follow this rule: fuck power level...mind the reputation.

    Reputation is by an hilarious marging a better metric about what a character can do.Where would you put your money on an Elektra vs Rhino fight? Because one is a (semi) powerless human and the other one eats trucks for breakfast and despite that...you would put your money on Elektra. Why? Reputation. One is the "Asssasin" with capital A and the other ... a dumbass who gets beaten by everyone he faces.

    The reputation of the character is the metric that allow some characters like Cpt.America to overcome imposible challenges for his power level ( as a random example). You don't know how a peak human ( let's not start with this please lol) can beat this god he opposes...well ,worry not,that's the story: explaining how.

    The genre is about building characteres ( this is what they sell: characters) so many times this "overcome the imposible challenge" will be explained right and some times will be a mess...sometimes they will pull an ultimate nullifier out of their asses, beat Galactus ( in a time when he was the top dog of the universe) and be done with it.

    Is it perfect? No, not really. Repuation it's affected by a lack of coherente too but by a 1/100 factor the power level is.

    A good example is Superior Iron Man. Tony Stark dies and Doom takes the mantle of the hero (worry not ,it lasted a blink). He starts chasing villains and when the word spreads some of them decide to have a meeting. The general consensus is "We need to unite to fight back". Among them there's a dissenting opinion:"Are you out of your minds? He is Victor Fucking Von Fucking Doom....he is gonna sweep the floor with us!!". Doom appears in the meeting and... do I need to tell you what happens? No? Why is that? Because he is Victor Fucking Von Fucking Doom and the reputation stands.

    Could he have been beaten? Yeah ,totally...some of the villains find a weak point or something malfunction or some other character is introduced in the fight ,sometimes for the surprise factor , but it's important to see that this is not about Doom's tech or Doom's sorcery: it's about Doom position in the food pyramid of the Marvel Universe.

    So...fuck power level....mind the reputation.

  19. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    The genre is about building characteres ( this is what they sell: characters) so many times this "overcome the imposible challenge" will be explained right and some times will be a mess...sometimes they will pull an ultimate nullifier out of their asses, beat Galactus ( in a time when he was the top dog of the universe) and be done with it.
    The problem, imo, is that the reputation has to be justified. You can't just sell Elektra as an Assassin and show her failing to kill anyone over and over again.

    Here we have followed Loki, God of Mischief throughout his adventures. And he got beaten any time he was involved in a fight, he "mischieved" absolutely no one except one guard on Lamentis-1 maybe, and behaved basically as a big crybaby all along the serie, which after viewing it, was clearly aimed at Sylvie more than "our" Loki. Even Mobius was more interesting.

    And this is where I have a problem. All that serie waiting for Loki to.. do something, and preferably something Loki-esque. Are we supposed to see Loki's self-kiss as the "awwww" moment of the serie, like that's the peak of the character to kiss himself ?
    Sorry, but Old Loki's Glorious Purpose was basically what I wanted to see. But with "our" Loki.

    Tom Hiddleston's Loki was a secondary character to (no specific order)
    - Sylvie
    - Mobius
    - Croki
    - Old Loki
    - He Who Remains
    - Renslayer
    - B-15
    - C-20

    All those characters had more compelling back-stories/mysteries that made me interested in them. Tom Hiddleston's Loki was about as important to the serie as President Loki : a comic relief side-character for the chuckles, that didn't bring a lot to the development of the story.
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2021-07-20 at 12:46 PM.

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    All those characters had more compelling back-stories/mysteries that made me interested in them. Tom Hiddleston's Loki was about as important to the serie as President Loki : a comic relief side-character for the chuckles, that didn't bring a lot to the development of the story.
    I admit Loki's character was...a bit weird.

    He was always the underdog and never showed mastery in anything...
    His character development was there for sure...but very weirdly turned into a pure loving, caring and selfless personality.

    I loved the serie and i dont mind the direction they went with...but yeah is a bit weird.

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