Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Good example of the kind of "me right, you wrong" attitude that's toxic regardless of which side you stand on.
    Pointing out that what you post is literally wrong based on easily observable facts isn't being toxic, its just an attempt to offer basic education to people that are clearly struggling. Education is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    whatever you said after that is just irrelevant, because again, you pretend to be better than others

    Well, maybe there is several legs to stand on, but you are so up in your head, thinking you are more intelligent than others, that you just can see/understand

    Not would be the first one.
    Once more, congrats on cutting the majority of a post out.

    I'll just be honest, as your next post in this thread about Wanda shows, yeah, you're not the brightest. Again, the fact you just felt you had to respond to that little bit in the first place, about intelligence, just shows I probably hurt your feelings a little by pointing out reality without even directly mentioning you.

    So, please don't watch S2. Nobody needs more outright idiocy to gum up the thread for pages and pages.

    Let's move on, shall we?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    So it was discovered that crossing the threshold happened at the same timestamp as Wanda becoming the Scarlet Witch. 27:52
    If this wasn’t planned it’s one hell of a coincidence. If it was planned, bravo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    With video for those who want to see

    [video=youtube;Ub3jCFh5W2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3jCFh5W2Y/video]
    Safe to assume this was planned out. Very, very cool way to do it.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Safe to assume this was planned out. Very, very cool way to do it.
    I also think people are overestimating how difficult it would be. You set the rough outline up to hit relevant notes somewhere around the right times, and then the Magic of Editing takes place and it's dead simple to trim a few seconds here or there in a lot of scenes to make sure it's a perfect match. You don't have to time the actor performances down to the half-second like you would a live performance or something.

    It's great editing, to be sure, if it's deliberate. But you only need a pretty vague outline and a good editor to set something like this up. You wouldn't even need to plan it in collaboration with the folks who made Wandavision; you can just edit based on whatever they produced, once you know what points you want to line up.

    It's super cool that they bothered, and it shows a lot of attention to craft, but it's not super complex to bring about. Not when it's only a few moments you need to line up over the course of an entire episode.


  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I also think people are overestimating how difficult it would be. You set the rough outline up to hit relevant notes somewhere around the right times, and then the Magic of Editing takes place and it's dead simple to trim a few seconds here or there in a lot of scenes to make sure it's a perfect match. You don't have to time the actor performances down to the half-second like you would a live performance or something.

    It's great editing, to be sure, if it's deliberate. But you only need a pretty vague outline and a good editor to set something like this up. You wouldn't even need to plan it in collaboration with the folks who made Wandavision; you can just edit based on whatever they produced, once you know what points you want to line up.

    It's super cool that they bothered, and it shows a lot of attention to craft, but it's not super complex to bring about. Not when it's only a few moments you need to line up over the course of an entire episode.
    Yeah, it isn't a difficult thing to pull off. Its just a cool way to actually do it, absolutely deliberate. The majority of people wouldn't have even noticed if it hadn't been pointed out, which is perfectly fine. I think enough people had Wanda in mind by the end of the final Loki episode to eventually put those things together, though.

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I also think people are overestimating how difficult it would be. You set the rough outline up to hit relevant notes somewhere around the right times, and then the Magic of Editing takes place and it's dead simple to trim a few seconds here or there in a lot of scenes to make sure it's a perfect match. You don't have to time the actor performances down to the half-second like you would a live performance or something.

    It's great editing, to be sure, if it's deliberate. But you only need a pretty vague outline and a good editor to set something like this up. You wouldn't even need to plan it in collaboration with the folks who made Wandavision; you can just edit based on whatever they produced, once you know what points you want to line up.

    It's super cool that they bothered, and it shows a lot of attention to craft, but it's not super complex to bring about. Not when it's only a few moments you need to line up over the course of an entire episode.
    Tbf, they’re also both the climaxes of said episodes. Usually a writer and editor can figure out how to make that fall at a certain time. And since they don’t have to hit a timeslot requirement they can do whatever they want on the backend and just have one episode be longer than the other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Yeah, it isn't a difficult thing to pull off. Its just a cool way to actually do it, absolutely deliberate. The majority of people wouldn't have even noticed if it hadn't been pointed out, which is perfectly fine. I think enough people had Wanda in mind by the end of the final Loki episode to eventually put those things together, though.
    Considering how chaotic the multiverse will be it’s kinda cool to tie it into the emergence of Wanda’s chaos magic. Magic that is reality altering itself.

  5. #965
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Once more, congrats on cutting the majority of a post out.

    I'll just be honest, as your next post in this thread about Wanda shows, yeah, you're not the brightest. Again, the fact you just felt you had to respond to that little bit in the first place, about intelligence, just shows I probably hurt your feelings a little by pointing out reality without even directly mentioning you.

    So, please don't watch S2. Nobody needs more outright idiocy to gum up the thread for pages and pages.

    Let's move on, shall we?.
    ok, so i just got the whole post to show how you are an embarrassment, you keep acting all superior because a fucking tv show, this is how low you can get, And now you are trying to point how how someone else is not brightest to not understand a plot that is not rly presented in the show. yeah i felt to i had to respond just like you felt had to talk about in the first place, its gets worse coming from someone with a manwha as pic for profile.

    can you show how many phds and how successful you are our little Eisntein? no? i figure it

    So yeah, i will watch S2 and will be here talking about it, you can either shove your idiocy up, ignore the users that you don't like, or just keep biting the pillow complaining about it, cause last i checked, the forum is not yours, neither the thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    One Nexus being, one person able to affect the Multiverse's direction.

    Two Nexus beings, two people can, and if they don't agree, neither has full control. And Wanda's attempt to find a universe where her kids are real (we can infer) is directly at odds with He Who Remains' control. He was able to ensure the timeline progressed exactly as he liked up to this point, but now that Wanda's meddling too, he can't be certain about anything.
    again, i get the nexus being, what i didn't get is her ascensions being the breakpoint of the threshold in beyond the end of time.


    Does that mean she is such absurd being that has never existed before in the multiple timelines, and just now became a thing, thus, breaking the cycle and going beyond the end of time?

    If is that so, only two lokis or a new Kang could possible successfully prune that timeline? did that happened before? still sounds a bit funky to me.

  6. #966
    Quote Originally Posted by P for Pancetta View Post
    but but but but....

    IF Kang prime eventually prunes all other kangs to create the sacred timeline.
    And Sylvie kills KP outside the timeline resulting in the sacred timeline splitting again as if it never existed.
    Wouldn't that mean that another KP would also then exist that would have again created the sacred timeline?

    Read that they've announced a second season, noice.
    I agree and I think the way in which Loki was written was overly convoluted and had too many logic holes. It would be better imo if he who remains is Kang but something the Lokis did made it so that a different Kang became the final one imo. The whole idea of the tva didn't really work for me. They also went from saying how only infinity stones create nexus type events to suddenly Lokis are doing those events left and right or how all of these alternate Lokis exist in the first place if all of the alternate timelines are already pruned. So it would have taken a Nexus event to bring about that timeline in order for all of them to have been born which shouldn't have been allowed to happen to begin with.

  7. #967
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    again, i get the nexus being, what i didn't get is her ascensions being the breakpoint of the threshold in beyond the end of time.


    I don't see what's so difficult.

    At the point she comes to exist, Kang can neither cut her (she's necessary, for whatever reason, for He Who Remains to come about in the 31st Century), but because she's affecting the timeline from then on, nothing Kang does will be able to keep it under control. That's the threshold; he can't predict or control how the timeline progresses beyond that point.

    That's literally what "being a nexus being" means.

    Does that mean she is such absurd being that has never existed before in the multiple timelines, and just now became a thing, thus, breaking the cycle and going beyond the end of time?
    Not "absurd", just "able to perceive and manipulate across the multiverse", to change and manipulate timelines. Kangs do it one way, Wanda a completely different way.

    If is that so, only two lokis or a new Kang could possible successfully prune that timeline? still sounds a bit funky to me.
    Neither. The timeline's no longer controllable.

    He Who Remains took his mission as far as it was possible for him to do, and from here, it's beyond his capacity to control. The Lokis wouldn't have been able to, either, but he was happy to let them waste their time at it.

    Also, Wanda's not breaking the cycle. Kang broke the cycle. He twisted and pruned the timeline into something other than it was naturally going to be. If anything, Wanda's restoring the natural cycles.

    Also, the "circle" of "time" is more about metatime. Which is a concept they don't touch on at all, even though it's a pretty important detail.


  8. #968
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    I agree and I think the way in which Loki was written was overly convoluted and had too many logic holes. It would be better imo if he who remains is Kang but something the Lokis did made it so that a different Kang became the final one imo. The whole idea of the tva didn't really work for me. They also went from saying how only infinity stones create nexus type events to suddenly Lokis are doing those events left and right or how all of these alternate Lokis exist in the first place if all of the alternate timelines are already pruned. So it would have taken a Nexus event to bring about that timeline in order for all of them to have been born which shouldn't have been allowed to happen to begin with.
    The only person who said that Infinity Stones create nexus events was the Ancient One.

    She doesn't really know what she's talking about. She has no understanding of the truth of the timeline's function, of the TVA. She only knows the existence of life as it exists, and how things should proceed naturally. The reality she lives in isn't natural, though. It's a highly-manicured garden, not a leaf out of place. Not a natural wild forest. She can deduce that Infinity Stones would produce splits in the timeline, but she's never experienced that, because every time an Infinity Stone's been used to actually do that, it's been pruned and ended up in the TVA. Same with Doctor Strange looking at possible futures; he's examining the natural flow of how time could go, the multiversal divisions from that moment. But only the timeline that actually happens ever comes to exist. This is a case where Strange's foresight likely prevents those divisions occurring, and ensures that the TVA don't have to prune anything this time, oddly enough.

    Metatime, man.


  9. #969
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    [/I]
    I don't see what's so difficult.
    this is not about difficulty, but to put things together with other information we had, plus what we know from the timelines.

    At the point she comes to exist, Kang can neither cut her (she's necessary, for whatever reason, for He Who Remains to come about in the 31st Century), but because she's affecting the timeline from then on, nothing Kang does will be able to keep it under control. That's the threshold; he can't predict or control how the timeline progresses beyond that point.
    So again, is her ascension that make everything, her ascension being something that trigger a threshold because she is way too powerful in the matter of controlling or affecting the timeines

    That's literally what "being a nexus being" means.
    aren't lokis also nexus being? but they alone could not do that

    Neither. The timeline's no longer controllable.

    He Who Remains took his mission as far as it was possible for him to do, and from here, it's beyond his capacity to control. The Lokis wouldn't have been able to, either, but he was happy to let them waste their time at it.
    See, this is not in the show, nowhere is said the timelines were no longer controllable, at least i don't remember saying that, we though things went to shit because he was killed, but things were going to be like that either way

    Again, what i was not getting was something like "her ascension'' being the catalyst of it, because i imagined the scarlet witch would be something that could appear in other timelines as well

    if so, they were also another trigger or just ours? Does mean we already went trough this other times? this is the funky thing with time.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-24 at 06:02 PM.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The only person who said that Infinity Stones create nexus events was the Ancient One.

    She doesn't really know what she's talking about. She has no understanding of the truth of the timeline's function, of the TVA. She only knows the existence of life as it exists, and how things should proceed naturally. The reality she lives in isn't natural, though. It's a highly-manicured garden, not a leaf out of place. Not a natural wild forest. She can deduce that Infinity Stones would produce splits in the timeline, but she's never experienced that, because every time an Infinity Stone's been used to actually do that, it's been pruned and ended up in the TVA. Same with Doctor Strange looking at possible futures; he's examining the natural flow of how time could go, the multiversal divisions from that moment. But only the timeline that actually happens ever comes to exist. This is a case where Strange's foresight likely prevents those divisions occurring, and ensures that the TVA don't have to prune anything this time, oddly enough.

    Metatime, man.
    Still not a fan of the writing and it still a lot of holes. I feel like a lot of what you are saying is made to fit what you saw in Loki. I'm not new to the whole multiversal concept. It's nothing new to the comics side of things. I just think it could have been written much better. Overall the show was still pretty good.

  11. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Still not a fan of the writing and it still a lot of holes. I feel like a lot of what you are saying is made to fit what you saw in Loki.
    That's how suspension of disbelief works. You find the explanation that makes sense, rather than presuming something that doesn't make sense and then decrying the show's writing as being "bad" because your headcanon doesn't line up with what happened in the show. If the audience thinks "this only makes sense if X and Y are true", then that's the writers implying that X and Y are true. If you thought Z instead, then you're just wrong, not the writers.

    There's gaps, because Marvel doesn't like filling in gaps it doesn't need to. But I don't see anywhere they straight-up contradicted anything they've established. Even the way the Ancient One and Doctor Strange interacted with the timeline is entirely in keeping with what we see in Loki, as long as you take into account their perspectives.


  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    ok, so i just got the whole post to show how you are an embarrassment, you keep acting all superior because a fucking tv show, this is how low you can get, And now you are trying to point how how someone else is not brightest to not understand a plot that is not rly presented in the show. yeah i felt to i had to respond just like you felt had to talk about in the first place, its gets worse coming from someone with a manwha as pic for profile.

    can you show how many phds and how successful you are our little Eisntein? no? i figure it

    So yeah, i will watch S2 and will be here talking about it, you can either shove your idiocy up, ignore the users that you don't like, or just keep biting the pillow complaining about it, cause last i checked, the forum is not yours, neither the thread.
    Jesus wept. You could just say I triggered you and leave it at that.

    Even attempting to use the avatar as an attack against me lol It simply represents my face when reading a lot of the posts on this forum.

    So, again, let's move on, shall we?

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's how suspension of disbelief works. You find the explanation that makes sense, rather than presuming something that doesn't make sense and then decrying the show's writing as being "bad" because your headcanon doesn't line up with what happened in the show. If the audience thinks "this only makes sense if X and Y are true", then that's the writers implying that X and Y are true. If you thought Z instead, then you're just wrong, not the writers.

    There's gaps, because Marvel doesn't like filling in gaps it doesn't need to. But I don't see anywhere they straight-up contradicted anything they've established. Even the way the Ancient One and Doctor Strange interacted with the timeline is entirely in keeping with what we see in Loki, as long as you take into account their perspectives.

    Dude, I'm not decrying anything here. I made one comment about it on a message board. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me as though I really care that much one way or the other. I am simply sharing my own opinion which is ok. People have this mindset nowadays that if someone posts an opinion that they are disagree with that they are obligated to argue with that person indefinitely. I personally didn't care for much of the writing. I felt it was very up and down. That's just my opinion based on 40+ years of watching tv and movies. I could go a lot more into that but I don't think you are the sort of person that I would like to do that with because in your mind I think it would be all about trying to tell me how wrong I am to hold any of those opinions or attempting to explain it away based on my ability to understand what the writers were doing. Because a show such as Loki is just beyond my ability to understand such ideas.

  14. #974
    Do we think S2 of Loki might feature a lot more variations of a lot more characters? Or is Loki going to be confined to certain things?

    At this point, they can literally take it anywhere, surely?

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    -snip-
    I think the question you're trying to ask is: why can't she be pruned before her ascension into a Nexus Being that can interfere with Kang's plans?

    1) If she's always a Nexus Being from birth, and ordained by the timeline to exist, Kang could never control her, and thus he could never know anything for certain.

    2) If she's only a Nexus Being at the end of WandaVision, presumably there's a place where the events leading to her ascension can be pruned so it doesn't happen, without affecting the rise of Kang. I'd assume that'd have to be somewhere in the 3 weeks after Endgame (because of her role in taking down Thanos) before she ascends, and not any earlier. Some examples could include:
    a) Pruning Agatha partially or completely from letting Wanda learn about her role as the Scarlet Witch
    b) Having Wanda die in Endgame, or in her confrontation with SWORD at some point.
    c) Simply pushing her in a direction to heal from her grief, and not create this psuedo-world to begin with, and never drawing Agatha's attention at all.
    d) Depending on how much Kang can control within her bubble before she's the Scarlet Witch, alter some events there - like maybe letting her live in the delusion forever, trapped in her own head.

    If he can't do these things, some questions have to be answered by Marvel: What was so important in those three weeks that couldn't be pruned, from Kang's perspective? The rise of a new Vision? The creation of Tommy and Billy? Why is Agatha unable to be pruned? This might explain, btw, why WandaVision is set so close to the end of Endgame - Wanda has to come back, destroy Thanos, and immediately spiral out of Kang's control.

    At some point, I expect it to be hand-waved as a Star Wars-esque "will of the Force" type thing, where the timeline demands her ascension into Nexus Being, and Kang can't possibly prune her at any point in her life, or he might have been utterly unaware of her to begin with, as the timeline was shielding her.

  16. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I think the question you're trying to ask is: why can't she be pruned before her ascension into a Nexus Being that can interfere with Kang's plans?

    1) If she's always a Nexus Being from birth, and ordained by the timeline to exist, Kang could never control her, and thus he could never know anything for certain.

    2) If she's only a Nexus Being at the end of WandaVision, presumably there's a place where the events leading to her ascension can be pruned so it doesn't happen, without affecting the rise of Kang. I'd assume that'd have to be somewhere in the 3 weeks after Endgame (because of her role in taking down Thanos) before she ascends, and not any earlier. Some examples could include:
    a) Pruning Agatha partially or completely from letting Wanda learn about her role as the Scarlet Witch
    b) Having Wanda die in Endgame, or in her confrontation with SWORD at some point.
    c) Simply pushing her in a direction to heal from her grief, and not create this psuedo-world to begin with, and never drawing Agatha's attention at all.
    d) Depending on how much Kang can control within her bubble before she's the Scarlet Witch, alter some events there - like maybe letting her live in the delusion forever, trapped in her own head.

    If he can't do these things, some questions have to be answered by Marvel: What was so important in those three weeks that couldn't be pruned, from Kang's perspective? The rise of a new Vision? The creation of Tommy and Billy? Why is Agatha unable to be pruned? This might explain, btw, why WandaVision is set so close to the end of Endgame - Wanda has to come back, destroy Thanos, and immediately spiral out of Kang's control.

    At some point, I expect it to be hand-waved as a Star Wars-esque "will of the Force" type thing, where the timeline demands her ascension into Nexus Being, and Kang can't possibly prune her at any point in her life, or he might have been utterly unaware of her to begin with, as the timeline was shielding her.
    It could be as simple as "she ascended to being a Nexus Being in the timeline that produced He Who Remains", so while he can't control the timeline beyond her ascension, he couldn't evade it either. Hell, his entire purpose may have been to get Wanda to this point. For reasons.

    We really have no idea. We have a tiny bit of exposition in a few minutes of screen time by a character who has every reason to say whatever he thinks will achieve the outcome he wants, not the honest truth. And no way to fact-check him on it. He could've been lying about a lot more than we think.

    I think the single most important thing to take away from the finale is that He Who Remains failed. He knew he'd failed. His plot was already finished and there was no way he could succeed, and he knew it. That's why he doesn't care. He's old beyond reason, he's tired, and he can't possibly achieve his goal. The Lokis will either take over so it's out of his hands and he can stop trying, or they'll kill him and another version of himself can have a shot at getting it right. The finale isn't some victory condition for He Who Remains. Everyone in that room lost. He Who Remains just knew he'd lost before Loki and Sylvie ever showed up; he was biding his time until the chickens came home to roost.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-07-24 at 07:59 PM.


  17. #977
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Jesus wept. You could just say I triggered you and leave it at that.

    Even attempting to use the avatar as an attack against me lol It simply represents my face when reading a lot of the posts on this forum.

    So, again, let's move on, shall we?
    Dude, you are more triggered than am i

    you are the one was compelled to call out people for being "not intelligent enough" for your taste, you start the discussion, and now are crying out about it

    don't know man, create a twitter or search for a tumblr if you need a safe space for high IQ people

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I think the question you're trying to ask is: why can't she be pruned before her ascension into a Nexus Being that can interfere with Kang's plans?.
    My only question is if there was other scarlet witches to spawn from oher timelines, or this is something special and unique enough to break a threshold that goes beyond the end of time.

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Dude, you are more triggered than am i

    you are the one was compelled to call out people for being "not intelligent enough" for your taste, you start the discussion, and now are crying out about it

    don't know man, create a twitter or search for a tumblr if you need a safe space for high IQ people

    - - - Updated - - -



    My only question is if there was other scarlet witches to spawn from oher timelines, or this is something special and unique enough to break a threshold that goes beyond the end of time.
    My understanding of Wanda as a Nexus Being (which I don't think Kang technically counts as, he's just a super smart dude that master multiversal travel and war) is that she exists as unique across all timelines.

    I don't know where I got that impression - from the comics? According to a wiki I just googled: "One nexus being alone supposedly exists on each of the parallel worlds of the Multiverse, personifies the character of their respective realm, and serves as the focal point or anchor of that reality.[2] Each being also acts as the node of mystic energy for the their respective world. The physics of the dimensional universe also dictate that no two nexus beings can exist on the same plane of reality, and can only project onto other realms with an active nexus being as an apparition.[2]"

    IE, if Kang is a Nexus being, he can't be in the same universe as Wanda except as a projection. This is, of course, if they follow the standard they set in the comics. SW is the most well known because she's the Nexus Being for Earth-616, the main canon of the comics.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    My understanding of Wanda as a Nexus Being (which I don't think Kang technically counts as, he's just a super smart dude that master multiversal travel and war) is that she exists as unique across all timelines.

    I don't know where I got that impression - from the comics? According to a wiki I just googled: "One nexus being alone supposedly exists on each of the parallel worlds of the Multiverse, personifies the character of their respective realm, and serves as the focal point or anchor of that reality.[2] Each being also acts as the node of mystic energy for the their respective world. The physics of the dimensional universe also dictate that no two nexus beings can exist on the same plane of reality, and can only project onto other realms with an active nexus being as an apparition.[2]"

    IE, if Kang is a Nexus being, he can't be in the same universe as Wanda except as a projection. This is, of course, if they follow the standard they set in the comics. SW is the most well known because she's the Nexus Being for Earth-616, the main canon of the comics.
    I mean, from your own source…

    Known Nexus Beings include Scarlet Witch,[4] Lore,[2] Eleyn,[5] Leonard Tippit,[citation needed] Sise-Neg,[1] Merlin,[1] Kang the Conqueror,[1] Franklin Richards of Earth-772,[1] Vision of Earth-90110,[6] Jean Grey of Earth-9250,[7] and Odin Borson of Earth-9260.[7]
    He Who Remains isn’t Kang the Conqueror, but we know he’s the villain of Quantumania.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's how suspension of disbelief works. You find the explanation that makes sense, rather than presuming something that doesn't make sense and then decrying the show's writing as being "bad" because your headcanon doesn't line up with what happened in the show. If the audience thinks "this only makes sense if X and Y are true", then that's the writers implying that X and Y are true. If you thought Z instead, then you're just wrong, not the writers.

    There's gaps, because Marvel doesn't like filling in gaps it doesn't need to. But I don't see anywhere they straight-up contradicted anything they've established. Even the way the Ancient One and Doctor Strange interacted with the timeline is entirely in keeping with what we see in Loki, as long as you take into account their perspectives.
    I feel like a good example of this would be someone making the argument "the writer's never show any of the characters taking a shit wtf I'm supposed to just believe none of these people ever take shits or something???" Some people are just weird and think they need to cover every minute detail otherwise it's bad writing.

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