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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The Arbiter's judgements aren't necessarily eternal on their face, either. Sentencing to Maldraxxus or Revendreth are obligations that can apparently be overcome or fulfilled through a variety of ways - the Shadowlands aren't static, and souls seem to move between realms, albeit infrequently. The judgment of souls (or aspects of souls) remains somewhat inscrutable and ineffable, so perhaps the goal is really bent towards this sense of unification, as it were. It's as equally possible as anything else.
    Is that why it is mentioned again and again that her judgement is absolute? What is the point of having her in the first place, with her input being meaningless a few thousand years down the line, those who are sent to the maw for example are supposed to suffer for all eternity, yet they have other threads that are meant to join them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    ............ I meant the first version of that soul to get placed within the Shadowlands.
    What makes you so certain that Maldraxxus Draka was the first to die? Alternate universes are born and collapse all the time
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2021-05-06 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #62
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Is that why it is mentioned again and again that her judgement is absolute? What is the point of having her in the first place, with her input being meaningless, those who are sent to the maw are supposed to suffer for all eternity, yet they have other threads that are meant to join them.
    Meaning would depend on the stated outcome, which we don't know. That's kind of what it means to be inscrutable and ineffable. The Arbiter's judgment could very well be absolute, but not designed to be eternal. We know from the very existence of Revendreth and the fact that souls can be redeemed there that it is isn't eternal. Consignment to the Maw may also not be an end for the totality of a given person, either. Perhaps threads can be judged individually, or the Arbiter opt to sever them from the whole. We can only speculate.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    Why did we even have to open the multiple realities pandoras box in the first place? Man, WoD was dumb.
    Because blizz wanted to sell movie tickets and had to remind everyone that the warlords were cool.

    But time travel stories actually takes consideration and planning and you can't make them do all the cool stuff you want to do without having to put in a lot of effort.

    So let's make it a time travel alternate universe story where nothing actually matters.

    EZ story.

  4. #64
    Warchief Nero Duskwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    There is a reason why it happens in every thread. Wow writers don't care about their lore. They just put stupid ideas in it without thinking to much about it.
    I wouldn't say they don't care. They just have the same problem that plagues the continuity of comic book universes like DC and Marvel; writers with competing visions for how the individual and collective story arcs should play out inevitably result in retcons and deus ex machinas that create conflicting and often outright contradictory lore elements. They tried to create a uniform continuity through Chronicle but quickly found themselves having to retconning their way out of the corners they wrote themselves into and it's snowballed into this mess because of the new cosmology they've had to flesh out in order to extend the game's lifespan
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Meaning would depend on the stated outcome, which we don't know. That's kind of what it means to be inscrutable and ineffable. The Arbiter's judgment could very well be absolute, but not designed to be eternal. We know from the very existence of Revendreth and the fact that souls can be redeemed there that it is isn't eternal. Consignment to the Maw may also not be an end for the totality of a given person, either. Perhaps threads can be judged individually, or the Arbiter opt to sever them from the whole. We can only speculate.
    I won't bother to seriously speculate over such an obviously flimsy thought out bullshit, it is exactly the same shit with one legion for all realities. This is their typically superficial rule of cool storytelling, they thought it would fit and two expacks later they most likely overwrite it yet again.

    In typical blizz staple writing
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2021-05-06 at 03:42 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Tyrande and Jaina send their regards
    Regards are not enough. I spend more time during questig with Draka and Thrall than with Tyrande and Jaina "Peace Mode Again" Proudmoore.
    Already they plot against us.
    Seize this moment, Varian.
    Dismantle the Horde!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Because that's the story most people are familiar with

    I remember people asking who the hell Deathwing was when Cataclysm was announced. Even confusing him with Searinox because "That was the black dragon from warcraft 3"
    Which is terrible and I hate it. Even in the danuser interview about how the whole one shadowlands thing works he keeps referring to uther being at the beginning; ignoring the entire first and second wars.

    Which....to reiterate, is terrible and I hate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    Because if you add a multiverse and then you go an say that there is only one shadowlands for the entire multiverse you will get people like you asking questions that have not an easy answer. And because blizz doesn't care much about their own lore it would have been better for them to say that there is a shadowlands for each line of the multiverse.

    Now imagine poor Draka. If the Draka we meet in SL has the memories of infinite Drakas, how many memories of her own death she has? Maybe there is one line where she wasn't killed. Maybe she also has memories of watching Thrall grow. Maybe even in one line she went full Mannoroth corrupted and was a monster. Or maybe one Draka didn't even have children. How can she even know what to believe or can she even not lose her f*cking mind with such a whirlwind of memories in her head?

    Universe building should be kept as simple as possible to avoid situations like these where you end up with inexplicable situations like these. If Draka is in fact many different Drakas, why should she know or care at all about our Thrall. Is she like a schizophrenic with personality disorder where sometimes she is our MU Draka and other times is any of the other Drakas of the multiverse?

    If there was a Shadowland for each universe, Draka would be our Draka. No further questions needed. I dunno man, I think that the less questions needed to understand the stuff, the better.
    I mean, she's trained as a Maldraxxi warrior and has learned to forget about her past life (lives?) and treat them as such...the past. Even then, I don't think those souls' memories went into her also. I think the Anima went into her, sure. But not the memories. I think the AU Draka memories just kinda...dissipated when combined with the Prime Draka's memories.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Is she like a schizophrenic with personality disorder where sometimes she is our MU Draka and other times is any of the other Drakas of the multiverse?"

    I mean, this could just prove my point in that AU memories just kinda die once those souls are combined with their Prime counterpart.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    What we do know is all of them are condemned to Garroshs fate eventually, lets say he does not repent and ends up in the maw, that is were each and every last garrosh will go, because he is the prime one.

    Whether they behaved like someone, like lets say Anduin.
    Hell, according to the bronze dragons, at least one of the Garroshes were so awesome they'd make Anduin look pointless.

    But silver lining, according to the danuser interview it can take eons for those souls to actually merge with the prime soul after going to the shadowlands, so they'll at least have some R&R before they have to go join our Garrosh as a battery.

    Or, in the case of Lightbound Garrosh, who knows. Maybe the Narru will intervene in his case and whisk him off to the Light.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  10. #70
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    Rule of cool overrules logic
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  11. #71
    Most timelines are pretty similar. As Kairoz said to Garrosh, "don't stop to count every blade of grass." Though some elements will differ, most remain constant. The Draka who lived through the events of Warlords of Draenor is likely drowned out by the millions upon millions of Drakas who experienced almost exactly the same life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Most timelines are pretty similar. As Kairoz said to Garrosh, "don't stop to count every blade of grass." Though some elements will differ, most remain constant. The Draka who lived through the events of Warlords of Draenor is likely drowned out by the millions upon millions of Drakas who experienced almost exactly the same life.
    That...can also work.

  13. #73
    Warchief Lupinemancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I am still confused how Draka can act like Draka if there are infinte Drakas all merged into one. How do the souls handle the memories?
    This must be hella confusing.
    Where did you ever get the idea they merge together?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Hi,

    just out of interest: Has the fact that the shadowlands, onec again like the legion, transcends all realities ever been talked about ingame?

    I am still confused how Draka can act like Draka if there are infinte Drakas all merged into one. How do the souls handle the memories?
    This must be hella confusing.

    Maybe i have overlooked this, but is this talked about anywhere ingame?

    I tend to just ignore that part of wow because it does not make sense for me. Still curious.

    Thanks and PLEASE don't make this thread into a "blizz can't tell stories"-thread. We have enough of those^^
    The way time and timelines work has been explained in Chronicles.

    It's stated that alternate timelines naturally occur and disappear in the flow of time if they are not "maintained" by a force from the main timeline.

    Since the only known "maintained" timeline with a Draka in it is the WoD timeline, you can assume there's not an infinity of Draka, but only two, sharing their XP in this soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    There is only 1 real Alternate Draka made tangible by the magic of the bronze dragons, and she hasn't died yet. The others only exist in a Schrodinger's cloud of probability.
    That guy said it better than me.
    Last edited by DatToffer; 2021-05-06 at 06:10 PM.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Most timelines are pretty similar. As Kairoz said to Garrosh, "don't stop to count every blade of grass." Though some elements will differ, most remain constant. The Draka who lived through the events of Warlords of Draenor is likely drowned out by the millions upon millions of Drakas who experienced almost exactly the same life.
    Which is not how this should work. Chaos theory and all that. Oh well.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post

    I just don't want to create another thread where people talk in circles about hwo they hate blizz storytelling. I get it. People don't like it.

    But, at least in this thread, i don't care about that^^

    I didn't even say, that i think everything is roses. It isn't. But still not what i wanted to trigger here.
    sorry, but thats literally the answer to ur question
    blizz said every "alternate" soul merges into a single one in the afterlife. which means every "bad" draka, no matter how much horrible shit they did, is now a part good guy draka in maldraxxus.
    and every good garrosh is now part of ours (who was described as one of the worst versions in all timelines) and suffering in the maw/revendreht, until we free him.
    just imagine that: all the different versions of garrosh, many of whom have been called "the best warchif the horde ever had" are now suffering bc we had one of the worst. its pretty retarded.

    the only answere here is that blizz didnt give a fck, and doesnt want you to think about it too hard, bc it starts falling apart the very moment you do so.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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  17. #77
    I would Imagine the Drakas being different beings. They dont share a soul

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupinemancer View Post
    Where did you ever get the idea they merge together?
    From the Danuser interview where he stated as much. He compared them to "threads of the same rope". There's a few links further up the thread to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    sorry, but thats literally the answer to ur question
    blizz said every "alternate" soul merges into a single one in the afterlife. which means every "bad" draka, no matter how much horrible shit they did, is now a part good guy draka in maldraxxus.
    and every good garrosh is now part of ours (who was described as one of the worst versions in all timelines) and suffering in the maw/revendreht, until we free him.
    just imagine that: all the different versions of garrosh, many of whom have been called "the best warchif the horde ever had" are now suffering bc we had one of the worst. its pretty retarded.

    the only answere here is that blizz didnt give a fck, and doesnt want you to think about it too hard, bc it starts falling apart the very moment you do so.
    In the interview the guy stated that it could take eons for that merger to happen, and that in the meantime those souls might just be in different parts of the shadowlands. Something about time not being a construct of death or whatever. So, assuming any alternative garroshes have died (I'm sure some have), it does not mean they are (currently) suffering with Garrosh-Prime.

    Heck, as I think Aucald pointed out, they could be kept separate intentionally until Garrosh is no longer a battery and then merged.

    I agree its silly but, well, there you have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    From the Danuser interview where he stated as much. He compared them to "threads of the same rope". There's a few links further up the thread to it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    In the interview the guy stated that it could take eons for that merger to happen, and that in the meantime those souls might just be in different parts of the shadowlands. Something about time not being a construct of death or whatever. So, assuming any alternative garroshes have died (I'm sure some have), it does not mean they are (currently) suffering with Garrosh-Prime.

    Heck, as I think Aucald pointed out, they could be kept separate intentionally until Garrosh is no longer a battery and then merged.

    I agree its silly but, well, there you have it.
    fair enough, but all of that still doesnt make it any less dumb they shoulve just left alternate universe bs out of the story altogether. its always shit
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  20. #80
    What is even funnier is that you could have an alternate dead anduin / jaina / sylvanas / archimonde / name who ever you want in that shithole..
    Unless they have to die in absolutely all infinite realities before.
    Damn they are dumb.

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