TBC / 9.1 or take a break and come back refreshed for 10.0 / WotLK?

[Glazey]

Shadowlands at the moment has one raid. TBC at launch will have 3 and then some time after 9.1 it will be 5 then. And then there are still Zul'Aman, Mount Hyjal, Black Temple and Sunwell waiting, whereas Shadowlands will get what, one other raid after 9.1?

And no, it doesn't matter if Shadowlands has a dozen difficulties, TBC has more raiding content at its launch than Shadowlands has. You can argue about Torghast and Mythic+, but that's just missing the point.

"more raids" Come on, a single boss and a two boss raid is stretching it. The quality of the raids are massively different, to say a expac is better because a raid counter is higher is just bad.

[deenman]

"more raids" Come on, a single boss and a two boss raid is stretching it. The quality of the raids are massively different, to say a expac is better because a raid counter is higher is just bad.

yeah,its like how people complain how now we get less dungeons,but they fail to notice the insane ammount of effort put in the modern dungeons from pretty much every aspects,for example tbc has a ton of them,but they are either tiny,reused assets from the same zone,or extremly simplistic like hellfire

[Nyel]

"more raids" Come on, a single boss and a two boss raid is stretching it. The quality of the raids are massively different, to say a expac is better because a raid counter is higher is just bad.

It's only bad when we don't consider all the other things like gear acquisition, how classes / specs played back then etc. I'm not comparing raids back in TBC to retail raids when it comes to quality, that's impossible. But TBC has factually more raids. I mean Karazhan has as many bosses as Castle Nathria and then there is Gruul & Maghteridon. Yes, those two raids are only 3 bosses, but they're still there. And then SSC and TK will have an additional 11 or 12 bosses. And I'm pretty sure Hyjal / BT will come before 9.2's raid. So while we can't compare quality of raids, we for sure can compare quantity and in that regard TBC beats Shadowlands by what, factor 3 or 4?

[Zergin8r]

"more raids" Come on, a single boss and a two boss raid is stretching it. The quality of the raids are massively different, to say a expac is better because a raid counter is higher is just bad.

Yep you can do Mag, and Grull in the time it takes to do 2-3 bosses in a current raid.

[Maell]

It's only bad when we don't consider all the other things like gear acquisition, how classes / specs played back then etc. I'm not comparing raids back in TBC to retail raids when it comes to quality, that's impossible. But TBC has factually more raids. I mean Karazhan has as many bosses as Castle Nathria and then there is Gruul & Maghteridon. Yes, those two raids are only 3 bosses, but they're still there. And then SSC and TK will have an additional 11 or 12 bosses. And I'm pretty sure Hyjal / BT will come before 9.2's raid. So while we can't compare quality of raids, we for sure can compare quantity and in that regard TBC beats Shadowlands by what, factor 3 or 4?

I would prefer a good raid than a bunch of mediocre ones. TBC had some good bosses but most was just utter trash.

[kranur]

Then you would be incorrect.

- - - Updated - - -



I judge expansions on how much there is to do ... Vanilla was great because it had all the original exploration, BC was their first attempt at an expansion and it was lacking in things to do.

LK was the first real expansion.

You mean the original exploration that has already been done and known to most of the people who went on to classic?

[Bramickias]

If you plan to play more casually and relax until 10.0/WotLK, TBC was pretty much the best expac for that.
Level to 70, play a bit for your pre-raid gear, get a guild that does T4 and just show up once or twice a week for raids. Maybe play a bit here and there to afford consumables, but otherwise TBC was one of the most chill expac if you just want to raid. Even more of a raid logger paradise then Classic is, since consumables are pretty cheap this time. If you join in the starting wave TBC is a nice experience.


If you want to do arenas, level alts, speedrun stuff or push parses, thats another story.

[Nyel]

I would prefer a good raid than a bunch of mediocre ones. TBC had some good bosses but most was just utter trash.

If you view it from a 2021 perspective you're absolutely right. Classic / TBC players that enjoy playing Classic don't do that though, that's why they kept raiding MC and BWL for months, although they are super mediocre and bland raids.

[Glazey]

It's only bad when we don't consider all the other things like gear acquisition, how classes / specs played back then etc. I'm not comparing raids back in TBC to retail raids when it comes to quality, that's impossible. But TBC has factually more raids. I mean Karazhan has as many bosses as Castle Nathria and then there is Gruul & Maghteridon. Yes, those two raids are only 3 bosses, but they're still there. And then SSC and TK will have an additional 11 or 12 bosses. And I'm pretty sure Hyjal / BT will come before 9.2's raid. So while we can't compare quality of raids, we for sure can compare quantity and in that regard TBC beats Shadowlands by what, factor 3 or 4?

We can compare the quality of raids in terms of design, functionality among other things just like how we can compare classes from back then to now. It's the same conversation just about raids.

While, yes, Karazhan alone has more bosses than Nathria (12 if you include optional bosses), the quality has vastly improved in terms of presentation and functionality. We get less bosses for generally, a better overall experience of the raid. This is just a purely look at this and look at that in an unbiased way. They could go back to designing bosses like they were, and we'd probably end up with a 15-20 boss raid (which we've gotten close to in WoTLK).

Whether you like the raids more from then or now, class design, gear acquisition, etc is subjective and perfectly fine. I just didn't like the statement "TBC is better cause of quantity".

[Balbuto]

That statement is of course factually incorrect.

Did you raid at a competitve level in TBC? Cuz TBC, at sunwell, is the only expansion that made me hit the wall physicly and mentally.

[Nyel]

Whether you like the raids more from then or now, class design, gear acquisition, etc is subjective and perfectly fine. I just didn't like the statement "TBC is better cause of quantity".

But it is, that's the point. You're factoring in quality, which doesn't work. TBC is better when it comes to quantity of raids, that's a simple fact. There are more raids in TBC than in Shadowlands.

Again, I am not talking about encounter design etc., as we can't compare retail classes and retail raids to Classic classes and Classic raids. That's a fight Classic cannot win, but that wasn't the initial statement.

[Glazey]

But it is, that's the point. You're factoring in quality, which doesn't work. TBC is better when it comes to quantity of raids, that's a simple fact. There are more raids in TBC than in Shadowlands.

Again, I am not talking about encounter design etc., as we can't compare retail classes and retail raids to Classic classes and Classic raids. That's a fight Classic cannot win, but that wasn't the initial statement.

Your point is that TBC has more things to do because of quantity of raids. All because there is a bigger number of raids to do does not mean anything other than TBC has more raids.

Quality is a factor you have to use in discussing the raids. To single out a detail and ignore everything else is just weird

[Nyel]

Your point is that TBC has more things to do because of quantity of raids. All because there is a bigger number of raids to do does not mean anything other than TBC has more raids.

Quality is a factor you have to use in discussing the raids

When I'm bringing quality into this discussion, I'm not talking about quantity anymore.

[MrLachyG]

Feel so good having skipped classic at level 30 - imagine if i had leveled up a bunch of toons and geared them up. the kinda trap i woulda ended up in....with the cloning money printing greedy biz....

I don't understand why that shit is so expensive; not just in TBC but in retail too. That being said I think the majority of people will have long made a decision as to whether they keep their toon in Classic or move to BC there would be very few who would want to keep a toon in both.

[AtomR]

That statement is of course factually incorrect.

Dude Vanilla was a prototype. Everything there was to do in Vanilla is there in TBC.
TBC is where dailies were added, arenas were added, it had a bunch of attunements to do, Heroic mode for dungeons and this is off the top of my head. There is a reason it's one of the most beloved expansions.

Having said that it's been there done that. if I wanted to revisit games there are so many more old games that are worth playing that an expansion of wow that is still pretty much available in retail.

[Dracullus]

yeah,its like how people complain how now we get less dungeons,but they fail to notice the insane ammount of effort put in the modern dungeons from pretty much every aspects,for example tbc has a ton of them,but they are either tiny,reused assets from the same zone,or extremly simplistic like hellfire

Same with zones, they measure continent area, but forgot how empty they were at least before Cata (although zones like Uldum had some empty space too). Compare Hellfire wastelands to any current zone. What is even more funny, people even praise old zones for how "open" they were.

[Gaidax]

I already did my share of TBC when it was current content.

I'll just chill until 9.1, there are no games around that strike my fancy. Maybe I'll go for Mass Effect remaster, I never really played first game properly aside from like first quarter of it, so that would be nice.

There are just no other games that entice me on the horizon. Might go for Solasta, but it's as indie as it gets and mostly is a stop-gap measure until BG3 or new Pathfinder.

[Aucald]

"Game vs. Game" type threads don't tend to produce much in the way of constructive discussion or debate. Closing this.