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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    So in 9.1 you'll be able to upgrade gear to heroic iLvls by doing casual content. It has been likened to benthic gear so most presumably a limited resource/currency that will allow you to slowly work on upgrading your gear by doing daily quests and/or world quests.

    Hopefully you can earn the currency from daily heroics and LFR as well in order to breathe some life in to those forms of casual content.

    Thoughts? It seems as though Blizzard have listened to the feedback from all the casuals who quit shadowlands early on.
    Gearing for heroic isn’t the issue though it never was… 9.1 doesn’t fix anything

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    It such a shit game it makes no sense to keep up with it
    Show me hard proof (aka source) what you're claiming is true
    The fact you used emojis in your argument pretty much tells me everything I needed to know about you.

    Emojis are obnoxious and need to go die in a fire already.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Valcrist09 View Post
    Gearing for heroic isn’t the issue though it never was… 9.1 doesn’t fix anything
    The real issue is that none of the so called casuals can even agree on what the issue is. Some say they get stomped in pvp, some say they can't get in groups, some say they don't even want to play group content, some want mythic gear from WQ/solo play.

    The only common themes seem to be wanting more gear, of a higher quality, with less effort than ever before combined with an inability to name a first tier in wows history where the solo player was able to obtain so much gear, of such a high quality, with such low effort compared to right now.

    This is where some of the frustration comes from - the narrative that solo/casual players have it worse than ever before doesn't hold up to even a few mins of investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  4. #204
    Hmmm... if you can actually get near-Heroic raid gear through world content, I might actually re-sub and buy the expansion.

    I will need to keep an eye on this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    If they offer ANY FORM OF POWER GAIN for casual players it would become "mandatory" for raiders. They complained about the "mandatory" badge farming. The AP was exactly a form of casual friendly player progression that the game desperately needed after wod and it was slowly gutted because of cry baby hardcore cucks who felt forced to min max. Hell they bithced about how mandatory m+ was as well and that got gutted too! anything remotely powerful, anything that could serve remotely as alternative is automatically forced so other people can't have nice things. This expansion its been pvp so guess whats happening to pvp gear next patch... its the most ridiculous and disgustingly obvious favoritism.

    I’d be fine with it if they made Heroic raid level gear that didn’t function as such in Raids or Dungeons or Battlegrounds... basically doing what they just did for PvP gear outside of its environment. It would probably prevent a lot of weeping about item levels.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2021-05-10 at 02:03 AM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The real issue is that none of the so called casuals can even agree on what the issue is. Some say they get stomped in pvp, some say they can't get in groups, some say they don't even want to play group content, some want mythic gear from WQ/solo play.

    The only common themes seem to be wanting more gear, of a higher quality, with less effort than ever before combined with an inability to name a first tier in wows history where the solo player was able to obtain so much gear, of such a high quality, with such low effort compared to right now.

    This is where some of the frustration comes from - the narrative that solo/casual players have it worse than ever before doesn't hold up to even a few mins of investigation.
    You put things together and it starts to make sense. Here, let me do it for you:
    People want to get even gear without doing group content in order to be invited into groups and avoid being stomped in PvP.

    Someone who is decked out in 220+ is not going to waste his time playing with someone who is 200 unless he's a guildie or has absolute confidence that he squeezes 100% performance out of his gear. Most new players dont fall under the "unless" category.

    Most new players are also not numerous, well connected and organized enough to progress separately in their own isolated eco system like everyone else did at the start of expansion. If that wouldn't be the case then boosting meta wouldn't be a thing.

  6. #206
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    So game now have invalidated even heroic content? Great news.
    Benthic, WF/TF, pvp, covenants, etc., haven’t stopped me from raiding heroic. It’s only invalidated for you if you think it is.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzonathan View Post
    You put things together and it starts to make sense. Here, let me do it for you:
    People want to get even gear without doing group content in order to be invited into groups and avoid being stomped in PvP.

    Someone who is decked out in 220+ is not going to waste his time playing with someone who is 200 unless he's a guildie or has absolute confidence that he squeezes 100% performance out of his gear. Most new players dont fall under the "unless" category.

    Most new players are also not numerous, well connected and organized enough to progress separately in their own isolated eco system like everyone else did at the start of expansion. If that wouldn't be the case then boosting meta wouldn't be a thing.
    Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    So game now have invalidated even heroic content? Great news.
    If gear is the only reason you do content you need to rethink why you play the game.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Why? Because players that do high end content still gear up faster, and still ultimately end up ahead. You seem to believe, completely irrationally, that “can get high ilvl gear” means “can get the exact same gear as high end players at the exact same rate”.
    They understand it would be at a slower rate, but it still doesn't matter. Any suggestion of additional paths to BiS gear, outside of the most difficult content, is considered blasphemy.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.
    Because boosters allow you to skip working your way up to that level.

    Even if someone earns a chump change like £10/h they are still better off doing 1 hour overtime and bring in home extra £20 which they can turn into 250k gold. Said 250k is enough to finance you 2x M+15 timed boosts with likely loot share on top of your own loot as boosters are decked out at this point. There's no free alternative to such lucrative deal and its impossible for a fresh ilvl 200 to get something like that through networking with friends, certainly not at the same opportunity cost.

    You can go ahead and say that not everyone can afford it but that doesn't matter.
    It doesn't matter because there's enough people who can afford.
    These people are siphoned out from "working your way up" player pool thus making legit gear progress even more time consuming and miserable.

    The end result is servers like Silvermoon EU Alliance where Group Finder is filled with M0¬3 runs for quick Valor and M15¬20 on top. Both groups dont want fresh 200 to slow them down. The upward mobility is crippled and the middle class is destroyed just like in USA.

    That is why gear progression needs to be trivial.
    Otherwise it will be commodified and people will be priced out.
    Last edited by Dzonathan; 2021-05-10 at 04:37 AM.

  11. #211
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Let's drop the rolling game vs. game arguments and return to the topic of the thread concerning 9.1 and gearing.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  12. #212
    well unless im wrong the mawforged gear goes to the new normal ilvl and after farming you can get it to the new heroic which is what it is
    it will still be met with "i have to farm it?? but these guys got it so much quicker and now its not as good for me waaahhhh"

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    well unless im wrong the mawforged gear goes to the new normal ilvl and after farming you can get it to the new heroic which is what it is
    it will still be met with "i have to farm it?? but these guys got it so much quicker and now its not as good for me waaahhhh"
    No, actually it's pretty much what I'd like to see from a casual gearing system. But you keep having fun building strawmen to demolish
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.
    200 ilvl shamans / warriors / dhs / paladins / monks are absolutely assraping 220ilvl dks and resto druids in arenas right now as i write this.

    Thats the biggest issue for me, the misbalance in class power is bigger than its ever been, sure there has been balance issues before, but not on this scale and so wide.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    No, actually it's pretty much what I'd like to see from a casual gearing system. But you keep having fun building strawmen to demolish
    i mean theres another thread that is essentially exactly what i posted
    players complaining that by the time they can get the gear there are others who easily outgear them and thus its not fair

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Honestly it should just go all the way to the top, that way unlucky mythic raiders could make some use of it as well to fill out their set (without being forced of course).
    Problem here is the moment anything goes to "mythic" level they'll claim they're forced. It's the nature of the beast for certain groups.

    It either offers no player power and ergo might as well not exist.

    Or does which as such makes it super forced. There's no in between.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    200 ilvl shamans / warriors / dhs / paladins / monks are absolutely assraping 220ilvl dks and resto druids in arenas right now as i write this.

    Thats the biggest issue for me, the misbalance in class power is bigger than its ever been, sure there has been balance issues before, but not on this scale and so wide.
    What on earth does class balance have to do with ilvl?
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    What on earth does class balance have to do with ilvl?
    makes ilvl less important, whats more important is the class you play.

  19. #219
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    I don´t know, I don´t really see it. Feels like a patch to give it a quick fix. I think that the game should go back to basics and scrap all these complex systems, for gearing and powers.
    Let us do 2-3 raids at once, instead of making them obsolete, and do not give ilvl such an importance.. I much rather have to look into the equipment stats and what they´d do for my character than "oh, 50ilvl higher... this one" (and let´s face it, it is that way for the most part).

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Ulduar and togc and icc disagree

    - - - Updated - - -



    They expressly did. The Legion weaposn were casual friendly content. It was the same power grind no matter what content you did at any pace you liked.
    Again, I can agree that Hardcore players wanted the extreme version of the AP grind and Titanforging gone. That’s true. But the rest is just hyperbole and your own imagination running wild. Many of the changes made in SL is not something that the hardcore playerbase want. This is not a hardcore vs casual issue. It’s a Blizzard vs Players issue.

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