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  1. #361
    See ya'll in 10.0. SL is the 'dumpster-fire' xpac.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So, now it isn't about the ilvl but about tier sets and best in slot? That wasn't what you said.
    Read the question - Getting a few decent pieces for farming for weeks is fine - but is absolutely nowhere near as strong as what we have now. You said bis - not me. And yes, it absolutely 100% is about ilvl, thats literally the topic of the discussion.

    ps - i never once said anything about tier sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  3. #363
    Pure deductive reasoning on his part. He will shift all the goalposts necessary to make it fit. In two weeks he'll argue once again that casual players are too contradictory to know what they want (as if theyre a monolith despite the routine evidence they arent), that they all want mythic gear (despite me (and others) telling him i (we) dont), and that no one has answered his question about his ever moving goalposts question which is apparently super important and needs to be answered (despite it being a feature of ilvl inflation and the increase of multiple reward systems/difficulties over time). Pay it no heed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There are far more interesting discussions we could have:

    For one, how we can incentive +15 key players to queue for +2 plaguefall?

    And how we can incentivise players (who wouldnt otherwise) to list their +2 PF?

    What is an appropriate valor reward? And why should this valor be BOA (because of COURSE it should!). Blizzard are so close to fixing so many issues with this one simple change (already in ptr). Im so hyped about this. Gear alone is garbage. Gear plus an incentive to USE it in the sphere its supposed to be used is mondblowing in how simple and obvious it is. All you need to do is follow through and make sure that players running 15 keys arent punished for carrying players in twos? And that they can send that valor to a character on their account that actually needs the valor?

    This is a super awesome change of design, whilst retaining current philosophy. Its brilliant.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-05-12 at 11:16 AM.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Read the question - Getting a few decent pieces for farming for weeks is fine - but is absolutely nowhere near as strong as what we have now. You said bis - not me. And yes, it absolutely 100% is about ilvl, thats literally the topic of the discussion.

    ps - i never once said anything about tier sets.
    So again in Legion, it was possible to obtain better loot than the highest raiding difficulty offered - not only on par but even better loot. So far far far better loot than even the highest raid difficulty offered. Not just heroic raiding.

    Ps found this gem from BFA:

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So again in Legion, it was possible to obtain better loot than the highest raiding difficulty offered - not only on par but even better loot. So far far far better loot than even the highest raid difficulty offered. Not just heroic raiding.

    Ps found this gem from BFA:
    Oh right, so now suddenly we are including group content and dungeons - then POOF! the "problem" just vanished...Do M+.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Oh right, so now suddenly we are including group content and dungeons - then POOF! the "problem" just vanished...Do M+.
    That was a heroic dungeon.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    That was a heroic dungeon.
    Yes - group content or dungeons. Something the "casuals" have said they refuse to do. Go back, and read the question again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Yes - group content or dungeons. Something the "casuals" have said they refuse to do. Go back, and read the question again.
    Can you quote someone who said he refuses to do heroic dungeons for loot?

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Can you quote someone who said he refuses to do heroic dungeons for loot?
    "he" who? Who are you talking about? Are you suggesting this discussion is only about one person and their personal requirements?
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  10. #370
    I don't get it. Isn't this basically just the current renown gear upgrade system but extended into the next patch?

    If you're that worried about casuals catching up with your gear after they're doing 17 weeks of quests and farming, then I think their gear is the least of your problems.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I don't get it. Isn't this basically just the current renown gear upgrade system but extended into the next patch?

    If you're that worried about casuals catching up with your gear after they're doing 17 weeks of quests and farming, then I think their gear is the least of your problems.
    Genuinely havnt seen or heard a single person say they are against it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    "he" who? Who are you talking about? Are you suggesting this discussion is only about one person and their personal requirements?
    You actually have to do dungeons in order to finish your shadowlands campaign.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Problem here is the moment anything goes to "mythic" level they'll claim they're forced. It's the nature of the beast for certain groups.

    It either offers no player power and ergo might as well not exist.

    Or does which as such makes it super forced. There's no in between.
    Ah yes, people being forced by an inanimate game.
    Sometimes people are so tiring in their nonsense.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Genuinely havnt seen or heard a single person say they are against it...
    Except me, right? I dont do LFG. Outside of world stuff i dont touch it. I qualify, right?

    i can absolutely tell you that i couldnt care less about the gear gap. I care deeply about the skill gap.
    or (replying to frozenbro pointing out said gear upgrading system in this thread only a page ago)

    Yeah, you're completely right. Which is why i dont really want this at all. I just want them to make the world game more fun.
    There you go. I dont want this. Hang on though, lets scroll back through my posts...

    Apr 27th:
    Even if you get the gear; even if you throw 220 gear at everyone, it wouldnt matter. They still play the same way, they will still be unsatisfied with their gameplay loop. Unless they step into end game, gear doesnt remotely impact them. And bfa PROVED they wont step into LFG. Thats why we're where we are now with hard caps.
    Apr 9th:
    What would i do in game right now if my character was sent a full 210 or 220 set in the mail? Would i suddenly feel an urge to start farming mythic dungeons or heroic raids? No. Not really. I'd play the game exactly the same way ive been playing it since about 2012. Assuming i cancelled my sub in January, would that 210 or even 220 be enough to bring me back to the game and resub (even if it was a one time offer due to expire in one week), no. Not at all. Why? Because there's nothing fun to do in the world game right now (and in the foreseeable future) to engage with. So you can tinker with all the hearthstone cooldowns you like to give me a 'world quest set', but if its THESE world quests, in THIS CURRENT iteration of the game? No. Heck, you could give me a 7 piece set bonus world ending once a week cooldown where i can destroy all my world quests and auto complete every quest available on the map. It wouldnt make me sub again. Because its boring. The world game is boring.
    Im pretty consistent. An ilvl boosting system doesnt interest me. I dont care if it goes all the way to heroic gear. In fact, id suggest its just a way to pad my play time out for some pointless grind that gives me nothing more than the possibility to solo higher level world mobs. Whoopdeedoo. It doesnt remotely interest me. But couple it to a system that incentivises not only me, but also higher level players to carry me through content (and alleviate the pressure on me to perform flawlessly), in content i might have felt incredibly pressured to perform otherwise, and now its interesting. Cant we just be a little more... inclusive and positive about the game, perhaps?
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-05-12 at 01:13 PM.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Pure deductive reasoning on his part. He will shift all the goalposts necessary to make it fit. In two weeks he'll argue once again that casual players are too contradictory to know what they want (as if theyre a monolith despite the routine evidence they arent), that they all want mythic gear (despite me (and others) telling him i (we) dont), and that no one has answered his question about his ever moving goalposts question which is apparently super important and needs to be answered (despite it being a feature of ilvl inflation and the increase of multiple reward systems/difficulties over time). Pay it no heed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There are far more interesting discussions we could have:

    For one, how we can incentive +15 key players to queue for +2 plaguefall?

    And how we can incentivise players (who wouldnt otherwise) to list their +2 PF?

    What is an appropriate valor reward? And why should this valor be BOA (because of COURSE it should!). Blizzard are so close to fixing so many issues with this one simple change (already in ptr). Im so hyped about this. Gear alone is garbage. Gear plus an incentive to USE it in the sphere its supposed to be used is mondblowing in how simple and obvious it is. All you need to do is follow through and make sure that players running 15 keys arent punished for carrying players in twos? And that they can send that valor to a character on their account that actually needs the valor?

    This is a super awesome change of design, whilst retaining current philosophy. Its brilliant.
    Ignoring your eye rolling rebuttal I can answer our question about incentivizing +15 players in to a +2.

    You should never ever fucking do it. Stop trying to drag players who enjoy a challenge into groups of " I Play For Fun now let me rage as I wipe the group repeatedly"

    People enjoy different difficulties stop trying to devise ways to offer bad players free carries.
    Last edited by Crimson Spears; 2021-05-12 at 01:31 PM.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Ignoring your eye rolling rebuttal I can answer our question about incentivizing +15 players in to a +2.

    You should never ever fucking do it. Stop trying to drag players who enjoy a challenging into groups of " I Play For Fun now let me rage as I wipe the group repeatedly"

    People enjoy different difficulties stop trying to devise ways to offer bad players free carries.
    Dude, im not. BLIZZARD IS. This is PTR stuff (it came from sloots interview with Morgan: Players are being INCENTIVISED to run mythic dungeons with a player garnering an IO upgrade through valor bonuses). Now stop getting your panties in a twist about my personal motivations.

    Also, and just a point of order, which particular point was 'eye rolling'? I'd love to know.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-05-12 at 01:35 PM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Dude, im not. BLIZZARD IS. This is PTR stuff. Now stop getting your panties in a twist about my personal motivations.
    Then don't ask hypothetical questions you don't want answered?

    I swear your on the level of a guy about to be tasered screaming " Its just a prank bro"

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Thats a very hateful way to see the game when it has been that way forever, casuals never had the best loot, so the game has reminded them that they suck for 14 years, thats what you are saying?
    There's a good reason 90+% of the people who have ever played WoW no longer play WoW.

    Calling the description "hateful" is an ad hominem argument. "This cannot be true, because saying it makes you a bad person."
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There's a good reason 90+% of the people who have ever played WoW no longer play WoW.

    Calling the description "hateful" is an ad hominem argument. "This cannot be true, because saying it makes you a bad person."
    I don't really know if that is a good number to draw on to be honest to start with. Nearly 99% of players I bet who played the original super mario bros are not playing it today. I wouldn't say its a failure of a game.

    I do find some arguments annoying on these forums though. Especially those who speak for the playerbase when we have the numbers. Covenants are the prime example of that " We want choice screamed the forums" once it went live "specs are 96%+ all the same covenant"

    I don't believe these are good systems myself because I understand that over rewarding someone so content at their skill level can't offer rewards beyond a grind X for Y amount time is a terrible facebook tier system. Don't get me wrong with all the other terrible systems in the game Choreghast, conduits upgrading via time gating, and to a much lesser extent renowned it isn't a big deal but its not a good thing just because worse exists.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I don't really know if that is a good number to draw on to be honest to start with. Nearly 99% of players I bet who played the original super mario bros are not playing it today. I wouldn't say its a failure of a game.
    It's a rebuttal to the argument of "it's always been this way, why is it a problem now?" It very well could have been a problem then, too.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

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