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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    No, I wouldn't. That's why I said that his statement has been backed up by countless people simming their toons in identical gear, 20 ilvls apart, as well as various in game / log data.

    The problem is a lot of ppl at say 200ilvl get outperformed by someone @220 by quite a large amount, and ignorantly put it ALL down to gear. The reality in many cases is that the person has 220 gear because they consistently play at a much higher level than the 200 ilvl person. There are exceptions to every rule, obviously, but this is the reality.
    Simming gear from this expansion between 200 ilevel and 220 ilevel is a useless exercise. Dear leader's statement was it was always this way and was consistent with past expansions which is not true.

    This is the first expansion where you have such rapid difference in ilevel before the first patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    And it was already proven with sims and data that the jump is indeed 1% per ilvl like Ion said, you and many others saying "the jump in power is insane" are just feelycrafting, and you know what feelycraft is? a meme.

    We have access to data from vanilla and PS of WotLK. There is no feelycraft involved. Again, doing the jump in ilevel before the first patch has dropped is in unprecedented territory. And that is with an item level squish. At this rate by the third patch players will be back to half a million HP.

    The obfuscation coming out of BlizZard HQ is like teflon at this point. Who are they fooling? You have players sitting at 40K HP before the first patch has arrived....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    BfA
    You could get WQ gear to scale to normal and then against overwhelming odds and the warfront
    You are correct that in legion and BFA gearing was relatively much higher from such content. Actually the problem with gearing was it was too RNG so BlizZard decided to make it more deterministic. But in the process they throttle total gear drops in PVE while making PVP more grindy. For example, updating PVP honor gear has never taken this long in the history of WoW. One would argue that PVP honor gear has never been upgradable to be that high on ilevel. But the flip side is that PVP honor gear had a stat budget for resilience that looked similar to conquest gear so ilevel gap didn't matter that much in PVP. Or often times had more stamina as it was with aspirant PVP gear in WoD and WoD PVP gearing structure had a reasonable hard cap gear ilevel for PVE and PVP in instanced PVP and PVP combat.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2021-05-13 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #402
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    You do now realize that WoW is casual concentrated ? Dude this game is casual focuesed since late WOTLK ><

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I do wish games were less focused on rewards...well maybe not cosmetic rewards I do love my transmog but I think wow is to reliant on power rewards. Would torghast for example even be minded if it just had cosmetics rather then the devs hamfisting it into the progression system?


    The game needs more rewards, special rewards not welfare bread

    Cosmetic, time limited rewards that can never be got again. None of this drop chance changed to 1% bs "next xpac or next tier" no, make it like the Grove Warden exclusive but make it so much more, weapon t-mog, pets and toys etc.

    So that people actually have a reason to do the raid more than once. So that people actually need gear (as they require it to do the harder content) rather than gear being useless for 80% of players. So people want to do more than just LFR as they are hooked on the life-long, never depreciating cosmetic rewards.

    Gear is not the hook anymore since welfare will obsolete it in 1 patch anyway.

    Mage tower is a prime example of this. I can wager that tons of people stuck around grinding alts, gearing them through normal/heroic Argus and playing A LOT of M+ just so they could gear and could get the time limited & prestigious artifact appearance (I know it's prestigious and special because of all the whiners who say they should be made free now)

    This is also a win for Blizzard, because to them, it's all about RETENTION.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2021-05-13 at 12:54 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    In my experience, the wanna-be elites follow the real high end. The other players (that might be called casual) just drift away from the game if there's no real, vibrant life on the server. The loss of meaningful server communities accelerated this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    LFR hasn't been a step in the gearing process since forever, except if your teir set bonus was very good and it wouldn't drop elsewhere. It used to go heroic 5-mans -> Normal raids -> heroic raids (and then -> mythic). Nowadays it's all over the damned place, which is part of the problem.
    I don't really care what you want to call the group I am just looking at the difference between successful realms and dead ones and raidings the name of that game barring very rare outliners.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It's only all over the damn place because people choose to do so, then complain. There is literally nothing in game stopping the old level > normal dungeons > heroic dungeons > normal raids > heroic raids > mythic.
    Sure, there's nothing stopping you. Except what's the point when you have to do much of the covenant questline just to open all your soulbinds, and doing the whole thing is one of the fastest ways of getting your renown up (necessary to open all the tiers in your soulbinds), and this brings you gear that can be made better than heroic 5-man drops?

    Or you can do random BGs and get gear that's better than 5-man heroics, and unless you have a terrible losing streak, it's faster. However, now that renown isn't time gated this isn't as attractive as it was initially.

    So, while you can use the traditional path, it's not that good a one.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    The game needs more rewards, special rewards not welfare bread

    Cosmetic, time limited rewards that can never be got again. None of this drop chance changed to 1% bs "next xpac or next tier" no, make it like the Grove Warden exclusive but make it so much more, weapon t-mog, pets and toys etc.

    So that people actually have a reason to do the raid more than once. So that people actually need gear (as they require it to do the harder content) rather than gear being useless for 80% of players. So people want to do more than just LFR as they are hooked on the life-long, never depreciating cosmetic rewards.

    Gear is not the hook anymore since welfare will obsolete it in 1 patch anyway.

    Mage tower is a prime example of this. I can wager that tons of people stuck around grinding alts, gearing them through normal/heroic Argus and playing A LOT of M+ just so they could gear and could get the time limited & prestigious artifact appearance (I know it's prestigious and special because of all the whiners who say they should be made free now)

    This is also a win for Blizzard, because to them, it's all about RETENTION.
    BlizZard doesn't view cosmetic rewards that highly. If they did they would have made more customizations for systemlands.

  7. #407
    WoWhead has an overview of the system as it currently stands up today. It's going to cap out at 233 but it looks like it fulfills the function of giving more casual players something worthwhile to do over a decent amount of time with Normal raid quality gear at the end.

    They could have been more generous, IMO, but there's only so much you can expect from these devs. I don't think this will get me playing again, honestly.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  8. #408
    My main is only 214 ilvl. I can only play about 3 days a week at night now because of work. Knowing my skill-cap I know I'm not good enough to do mythic raiding so I accept that this is my cap and I am happy here. Honestly my 214 is higher than other expansions because weekly vault and weekly free gear. Gearing for casuals is extremely easier this expansion. The problem seems to be that people can't accept their skill-cap. If you can't heroic raid, you don't deserve a 213 ilvl. If you can't mythic raid you can't expect a 226 ilvl. But this expansion seems to give you a few free items to boost your ilvl and then when you reach your skill-cap, there's more you can do. I finished professions, play the AH, still raid and dungeons FOR FUN, talk to friends, do quests and collect mounts and pets. Just because you aren't good enough to keep getting gear doesn't mean the game is over or you deserve it. Either quit or do the 100,000 other things you can do in game til next patch.

  9. #409
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmmorgan94 View Post
    My main is only 214 ilvl. I can only play about 3 days a week at night now because of work. Knowing my skill-cap I know I'm not good enough to do mythic raiding so I accept that this is my cap and I am happy here. Honestly my 214 is higher than other expansions because weekly vault and weekly free gear. Gearing for casuals is extremely easier this expansion. The problem seems to be that people can't accept their skill-cap. If you can't heroic raid, you don't deserve a 213 ilvl. If you can't mythic raid you can't expect a 226 ilvl. But this expansion seems to give you a few free items to boost your ilvl and then when you reach your skill-cap, there's more you can do. I finished professions, play the AH, still raid and dungeons FOR FUN, talk to friends, do quests and collect mounts and pets. Just because you aren't good enough to keep getting gear doesn't mean the game is over or you deserve it. Either quit or do the 100,000 other things you can do in game til next patch.
    Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.
    Any multiplayer game will eventually make the difference in skill between players known to the players of that game.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.
    Isn't it best for everyone?

    Trying to hide the results of a players ability in the game just creates toxic groups. Wow needs to pick a audience this catering to everyone is collapsing. I am even fine with it not being me but they can't keep trying to spin all these plates.

  12. #412
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Isn't it best for everyone?

    Trying to hide the results of a players ability in the game just creates toxic groups. Wow needs to pick a audience this catering to everyone is collapsing. I am even fine with it not being me but they can't keep trying to spin all these plates.
    I dont considered half assed attempts at catering to casuals as actually attempting to cater to everybody. They threw the casual player under the bus this expansion so you wouldn't feel obligated to participate or feel less obligated at any rate.

    Having said that I actually agree to an extent. I'd rather they go full on hardcore and only cater to mythic raiders. That way they can be promptly fired. Its really quite amazing they haven't by this point.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2021-05-16 at 07:39 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I dont considered half assed attempts at catering to casuals as actually attempting to cater to everybody.
    I don't think this game has catered to casuals since... I guess wod or mop?

    It seems to increasing cater to people with excessive amount of time to invest into easy content. CM and mythic are arguably the last pro casual changes to the game.

  14. #414
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I don't think this game has catered to casuals since... I guess wod or mop?

    It seems to increasing cater to people with excessive amount of time to invest into easy content. CM and mythic are arguably the last pro casual changes to the game.
    It very much catered to them in Legion. Note mythic raiders who raid log are not casual.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #415
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.
    Your are funny.

    Give casuals free easy gear and they quit because there is nothing to do.

    Literally every expac, patch ppl cry about 6-10 month raid cycle yet never even beat half the previous content (Due to welfare making it obsolete) or current content even on real diff. What purpose does casual have to do anything when it is alrdy full gear? They don't do it for fun... or else they actually would... now...
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It very much catered to them in Legion. Note mythic raiders who raid log are not casual.
    Oo so you mean terrible players with insane amounts of time... sorry I keep thinking casual means casual not giga hardcore terrible players.

  17. #417
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Oo so you mean terrible players with insane amounts of time... sorry I keep thinking casual means casual not giga hardcore terrible players.
    That's okay English is a difficult language. You'll grasp it eventually.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    WoWhead has an overview of the system as it currently stands up today. It's going to cap out at 233 but it looks like it fulfills the function of giving more casual players something worthwhile to do over a decent amount of time with Normal raid quality gear at the end.

    They could have been more generous, IMO, but there's only so much you can expect from these devs. I don't think this will get me playing again, honestly.
    Yeah normal mode gear isn't going to get the casuals who left to come back. Not when they can get heroic equivalent gear in games they've went over to.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Yeah normal mode gear isn't going to get the casuals who left to come back. Not when they can get heroic equivalent gear in games they've went over to.
    Or, in my case, even if they didn't move to another game at all.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    That's okay English is a difficult language. You'll grasp it eventually.
    I suppose so least we are agreed on the terminology now.

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