9.1 seems to be addressing the casual gearing concerns

[Glorious Leader]

I don't think this game has catered to casuals since... I guess wod or mop?

It seems to increasing cater to people with excessive amount of time to invest into easy content. CM and mythic are arguably the last pro casual changes to the game.

It very much catered to them in Legion. Note mythic raiders who raid log are not casual.

[Daffan]

Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.

Your are funny.

Give casuals free easy gear and they quit because there is nothing to do.

Literally every expac, patch ppl cry about 6-10 month raid cycle yet never even beat half the previous content (Due to welfare making it obsolete) or current content even on real diff. What purpose does casual have to do anything when it is alrdy full gear? They don't do it for fun... or else they actually would... now...

[Crimson Spears]

It very much catered to them in Legion. Note mythic raiders who raid log are not casual.

Oo so you mean terrible players with insane amounts of time... sorry I keep thinking casual means casual not giga hardcore terrible players.

[Glorious Leader]

Oo so you mean terrible players with insane amounts of time... sorry I keep thinking casual means casual not giga hardcore terrible players.

That's okay English is a difficult language. You'll grasp it eventually.

[Echo of Soul]

WoWhead has an overview of the system as it currently stands up today. It's going to cap out at 233 but it looks like it fulfills the function of giving more casual players something worthwhile to do over a decent amount of time with Normal raid quality gear at the end.

They could have been more generous, IMO, but there's only so much you can expect from these devs. I don't think this will get me playing again, honestly.

Yeah normal mode gear isn't going to get the casuals who left to come back. Not when they can get heroic equivalent gear in games they've went over to.

[Osmeric]

Yeah normal mode gear isn't going to get the casuals who left to come back. Not when they can get heroic equivalent gear in games they've went over to.

Or, in my case, even if they didn't move to another game at all.

[Crimson Spears]

That's okay English is a difficult language. You'll grasp it eventually.

I suppose so least we are agreed on the terminology now.

[Glorious Leader]

I suppose so least we are agreed on the terminology now.

We've agreed that you can't seem to understand the actual meaning of words and now evidently reading comprehension is also a challenge.

[Soon-TM]

I think that is the slow poison killing wow myself. Developers are now designing content around rewards then making rewards for content. Everything is now how much can X give you and how long can we make them do X.

Rather then focusing on making an excellent game they are more enthralled with making a game that supports a dozen different power systems to apparently no end.

If I was to wear my tinfoil hat, I'd say that designing systems is cheaper than designing actual content, while being similar enough at a superficial level to keep (some) players deceived, and thus subbed, for a longer term.

[derekmmorgan94]

Yes people are not thrilled the game is designed in such a fashion to reinforce the idea they suck. So they quit. Why anyone actually thinks this is health, beneficial or even necessary for the game is the real question.

I get that but that's is what mmo's generally are. The more skilled you are the higher gear you get to do higher skilled tasks. Maybe they can try out fortnite or something. Or just do the 500 other things in game if you can't learn how to effectively play. Like I said there are plenty of things to do. The cool thing is too that you can practice and not be as bad to an extent....I meet people in 208 i lvl who don't know their rotation. Who spam arcane shot as bm hunter. People don't want to invest time or learn their character. They want things handed to them and not to actually play an mmo. If I sucked at pacman because i kept running into ghosts, I wouldnt message the creator and say this game sucks because I keep running into ghosts, now let me eat the ghosts all the time so I don't have to worry about skill...

[ohwell]

I dont considered half assed attempts at catering to casuals as actually attempting to cater to everybody. They threw the casual player under the bus this expansion so you wouldn't feel obligated to participate or feel less obligated at any rate.

Having said that I actually agree to an extent. I'd rather they go full on hardcore and only cater to mythic raiders. That way they can be promptly fired. Its really quite amazing they haven't by this point.

lol promptly fired for catering to the demographic that's actually bringing in the money these days? riiiiiiight.

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That's okay English is a difficult language. You'll grasp it eventually.

No definition of the word casual in the English language implies the people you're saying as even the closest one "relaxed or unconcerned" doesn't apply to the people you're calling casual as they clearly are neither if they're whining about gear.

[arkanon]

No definition of the word casual in the English language implies the people you're saying as even the closest one "relaxed or unconcerned" doesn't apply to the people you're calling casual as they clearly are neither if they're whining about gear.

This is the problem really - everyone has a different definition of hardcore/casual, everyone has a different definition of playing the game "a lot" - for some that's an hour a day, for some that's 10 hours a day. Everyone has a different definition of hard/challenging content - for some heroic raiding is extremely easy - for some just the idea of joining a random M0 is intimidating. For some a "low key" is a +2, for others, they farm +14's without a second thought.

When people say things like "Blizzard are favoring X group", we hit a wall because no one can even define what Group X is, and who is included. Then we get some who self identify as Group X start saying they feel left out, and others start saying they are not even part of Group X.

[ohwell]

This is the problem really - everyone has a different definition of hardcore/casual, everyone has a different definition of playing the game "a lot" - for some that's an hour a day, for some that's 10 hours a day. Everyone has a different definition of hard/challenging content - for some heroic raiding is extremely easy - for some just the idea of joining a random M0 is intimidating. For some a "low key" is a +2, for others, they farm +14's without a second thought.

When people say things like "Blizzard are favoring X group", we hit a wall because no one can even define what Group X is, and who is included. Then we get some who self identify as Group X start saying they feel left out, and others start saying they are not even part of Group X.

I mean it doesn't really matter as the term originated from people who DIDN'T have time to do content that mattered which was fine. Now people are making it include people who just don't want to play the game's actual end game content and still get the rewards for it. World content will never be rewarded the same as upper end game nor should it be and their utter refusal to participate in the game at that level is enough to justify not needing nor receiving said gear and if it makes them quit then so be it. Hint: they aren't leaving.

[Frozenbro]

WoWhead has an overview of the system as it currently stands up today. It's going to cap out at 233 but it looks like it fulfills the function of giving more casual players something worthwhile to do over a decent amount of time with Normal raid quality gear at the end.

They could have been more generous, IMO, but there's only so much you can expect from these devs. I don't think this will get me playing again, honestly.

They are generous so far, that system is different, that gear u can upgrade to 233 isnt the maw-touched gear, since the gear actually is labelled as such, and maw-touched gear can go all the way to 237, 2 ilvl less than heroic, so this looks like just another avenue to get gear outside of m+,pvp and raid.

[leorana]

That's not the question though, it's why do you need gear that only drops from mythic + without ever having to or even wanting to do that content? It makes no sense.
You have covenant gear, thats the gear designed and intended for your world quest activities.
It's the same as me saying I want mythic raid gear without raiding...like...ok??

PvP gear for bdk has best customisation for any other high difficulty content (haste+vers). Covanent gear is high ilvl but it's pure trash with insane amount of mastery.PvP route is also way less RNG. The content you farm isn't necessarily linked to the content you want to run.

The player base got it all backwards. You need the proper gear to do the content (think farming frost res. Gear), but these days you must have high ilvl gear just to get accepted to a run you allready outgear by a mile (+link achieve).

Also, doing the SAME content over and over again isn't more content. It's just more time (and cash grab) consumed.

[Voidism]

To me, everything feels made to be sluggish, slow and stop you from continuing. Take renown for example, eventually your catch up renown just stops "dropping" and you can do 10 raid bosses in a row and get nothing. Why not let people decide for themselves when to stop? If I have the time one weekend to grind out all renown to actual cap, it sucks when it just doesn't happen after a while. "Oh, so I guess I have played enough this week?"

So many sluggish systems, and catch up-renown is just one of them.

I also see no reason why I should do Torghast. I liked it, but not enough to just do it for nothing. I have better progression related activities I can do.

And anima. Blech.

[Glorious Leader]

From what I've heard recently it seems the currency you farm for upgrading this gear now drops at lower and lower rates over the course of a week until it bottoms out at a mere 1 currency per kill. Likely this was implemented to protect the midcore idiots from themselves since they've always shown no ability to stop themselves from doing things they don't want to do. But for the casuals this system was most likely intended for it means that you essentially have a soft cap every week of how much progress you can make, regardless of how much you actually want to play.

So, yet another reason for me, personally, not to come back in 9.1.

It's really quite infuriating they need to placate people who evidently have no self control and must be held by the ha d.

[Soon-TM]

Why not let people decide for themselves when to stop?

Because the hardcore crowd would QQ to no end about the Mandatory™ grind. And we can't inconvenience those folks now, can we?

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It's really quite infuriating they need to placate people who evidently have no self control and must be held by the ha d.

This. For all of the rivers of tears about, idk, running MoS in Legion for AP until their eyes were bleeding, they never quit. Or if they did, it was so unnoticeable that no one realised it

[Elias1337]

Yeah normal mode gear isn't going to get the casuals who left to come back. Not when they can get heroic equivalent gear in games they've went over to.

You migh throw on casuals mythic gear as you want. As long as getting gear isnt tied to proper and fun gameplay experience + social structure where you actualy have to play with other players casuls wont have fun anyway. I dont get what current players have this delusion how is more and better rewards will keep players playing more. No. Thats not how it works.

[Glorious Leader]

Because the hardcore crowd would QQ to no end about the Mandatory™ grind. And we can't inconvenience those folks now, can we?

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This. For all of the rivers of tears about, idk, running MoS in Legion for AP until their eyes were bleeding, they never quit. Or if they did, it was so unnoticeable that no one realised it

The insane part is that they did it anyway! Why would you risk alienating literally everybody else to appease their complaints? I don't get it.