It isn't an unfair class sytem. Higher content has higher rewards. That is fair to everyone who plays the game because everyone is capable of trying to do that higher content. I don't fear anyone giving me a fair fight. I don't even fear higher geared players in random battle grounds because I suck at PvP regardless of gear. It is why I prefer the brawls and epic battlegrounds that have less of a focus on direct pvp contact.
You keep projecting your fears, and emotions, on others in an effort to own them or whatever. The progression system is fine in the game. You can easily get gear that rewards higher then LFR and is equal to a normal raid with out stepping foot in that normal raid. That causal gear is equal to a Mythic +5/6 so you are already geared enough to start higher mythics.
It comes down to skill. I already have told you I have no problem with PvP having a system where people are scaled. Equal gear. Whatever. There are issues inherent to any system though. You equate discussing the merits and problems of a design with fear. Weird huh?
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
It wouldnt matter cause the progression for casual players doesnt affect hardcore players, you as a casual engage in content hardcores dont touch, hardcore players dont do heroic dungeons, or world quests, or care about covenant gear, or normal raiding, they go straight to mythic + and rated pvp, so yes blizz could make progression for casuals slower so they have more time playing the game before reaching their cap and hardcores wouldnt care, cause again hardcore players dont touch casual content right now.
If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!
Blizzard, getting away with murder since at least 2019.
You're absolutely out of touch with what going on in the game.
No hardcore player like tiers sets being removed. And no hardcore player were doing LFR for tier sets. You're absolutely wrong. You're blaming the wrong people. Tier sets were removed because M+ only players complained that they had to raid. But that's not "hardcore" players as a group.
Also the gear you can get from badge farming is most often completely redundant for hardcore players with the exception of benthic gear which was because of the absurd raid bonuses. So again, you're wrong. Casual can definitely get a badge vendor without it having any impact on hardcore players.
Hardcore players didn't want less gear in M+. We simply wanted titanforging gone because of the RNG element. But the fact that Blizzard has reduce ilvl of M+ has nothing to do with hardcore players. Blizzard have reduced the base ilvl of M+ to much less than what the base ilvl was (without TF) for m+ in BFA and nobody was asking for that. That's ALL Blizzards fault.
PVP gear is not a "hardcore" problem. It's a problem that impacts the entire game. Gearing in general has just been much better through PVP this tier and that goes for everyone.
Sorry but you have absolutely not idea what you are talking about. You're misplacing your frustration at Hardcore players when Blizzard are the true villain here. Hardcore players didn't ask for 80% of the changes that were made in Shadowlands. It's all Blizzards invention.
Last edited by Kaver; 2021-05-09 at 08:34 PM.
Wow is having serious retention issues. FF14 is growing, and according to some analysts is already exceeding wow retail. Destiny remains intensely popular and flies on the face of everything you are saying.
Again, if your argument is “I don’t care if the game burns down as long as I can spit on casuals as the building falls”, cool story but not exactly a good argument. Cutting your nose off to spite your face isn’t a good argument.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
Oh Blizzars is absolutely ������ to blame here but they've been acting in response to feedback from hardcores who felt forced to participate in content. They should have been ignored. Franky the game should force them.
Every tier should have benthic.
Pvp gear is not a problem. It simple another avenue for progression. It ls not a problem for people who like to pvp and pursue that gear. Hardcores are bitching about forced pvp content.
Hardcore players were doing lfr for tier sets. Raiding guilds were queuing for lfr for trinket and set bonuses including method. They were literally exploiting the shit out of lfr for tier set bonuses.
But you're making the assumption that everyone should be able to clear any content. Which is not true.
You just focus on the very top rewards and ignore that there's tons of people who's very progression and sense of competition is doing normal raids, heroic raids, ranked pvp at 1600 rating etc etc. The design is there, you just refuse to see it because you feel entitled to the very best rewards.
And nothing you've said yet explains how that would be good game design.
You're also making the assumption everyone in the game only plays for gear, they don't. I'm 226 ilvl and I still find plenty of things todo every single reset. I do partake in quite a few areas of the game though.
You talk like you're the majority and the norm. I don't think so.
They could make the ladder way better at the bottom and still wouldnt care as long as other modes reward better stuff, and theres no reason for blizz to not make the other modes reward better stuff so casuals have something to chase, the thing is it wont impact hardcore players at all cause they will still go straight into m+ and rated pvp cause even if they buff heroic dungeons, covenant gear and world quest gear, it wont be better than farmable m+ and rated pvp in terms of speed, if hardcore players farmed +14s in sub 200 ilvl, they will do it again and thats fine, thats why the "hardcore players made the game what it is" is such a weak scapegoat.
Why ignore them when they're the ones bringing in the money now? All the time it was "listen to the badsuals who log 10 hours a day but refuse to raid because their sub money is running the game." Well sub money is a smaller portion of running the game now so yeah they'll listen to the people bringing in the money via their events.
At no point have I said that is my argument. Why do you keep inventing things just in order to vilify? Should a game change design when need? Yep. As I've said. Does every change need to happen just because some forum warrior says it will save the game and keep casuals? Nope. Other games have grown and others games have died. The same will happen to wow even with the best of design.
You've been on these forums long enough to see all the wow killers of past and people making the same arguments you have about the game needs to change or it will die. And look WoW is still around. It doesn't need the same level of players in order to still be around. If another game gets it better then good for that game. Blizzard can adapt similar principles or design the game for those they want. There is nothing wrong with that. Stop implying it is "burn the game to own the casuals" or "give casuals everything they want". That is poor game design any way you cut it.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
This isn’t as complicated as you are making it out to be.
Is the game better for casuals if they can target bis or close to bis gear? Yes.
Is the game worse for hardcore players if that’s the case? No.
So what exactly is the argument here? That you want the game to be worse for other people for... reasons,
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Wow has been declining for a decade. The question isn’t what is going to kill or end wow. That’s silly. Ultima Online is still on. Everquest is still on The question is if wow is going to decline to the point where they stop putting as many resources into it, and it’s really clear that they’ve already started to do that. This expansion was exceptionally small, and the delay to 9.1 is insane.
Where are the players mainly going? FF14, because it is the game most like wow on the market. So it’s valid to compare the designs of these games.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
The argument here is that you're wrong?
The correct answer from both your question is. No. Yes.
I don't feel like your entitlement should diminish the work me and others have put in. I would feel worse. It would also invalidate several game modes, why do normal/heroic raiding or m+ when you can "target gear via world quests".
I agree, its not complicated so I fail to see how you can be this dense
The real irony here is that they've tried your way and it failed, so they changed it and thank fuck for that