9.1 seems to be addressing the casual gearing concerns

[Darsithis]

So game now have invalidated even heroic content? Great news.

Benthic, WF/TF, pvp, covenants, etc., haven’t stopped me from raiding heroic. It’s only invalidated for you if you think it is.

[arkanon]

You put things together and it starts to make sense. Here, let me do it for you:
People want to get even gear without doing group content in order to be invited into groups and avoid being stomped in PvP.

Someone who is decked out in 220+ is not going to waste his time playing with someone who is 200 unless he's a guildie or has absolute confidence that he squeezes 100% performance out of his gear. Most new players dont fall under the "unless" category.

Most new players are also not numerous, well connected and organized enough to progress separately in their own isolated eco system like everyone else did at the start of expansion. If that wouldn't be the case then boosting meta wouldn't be a thing.

Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.

[Shaetha]

So game now have invalidated even heroic content? Great news.

If gear is the only reason you do content you need to rethink why you play the game.

[ReesePieces]

Why? Because players that do high end content still gear up faster, and still ultimately end up ahead. You seem to believe, completely irrationally, that “can get high ilvl gear” means “can get the exact same gear as high end players at the exact same rate”.

They understand it would be at a slower rate, but it still doesn't matter. Any suggestion of additional paths to BiS gear, outside of the most difficult content, is considered blasphemy.

[Dzonathan]

Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.

Because boosters allow you to skip working your way up to that level.

Even if someone earns a chump change like £10/h they are still better off doing 1 hour overtime and bring in home extra £20 which they can turn into 250k gold. Said 250k is enough to finance you 2x M+15 timed boosts with likely loot share on top of your own loot as boosters are decked out at this point. There's no free alternative to such lucrative deal and its impossible for a fresh ilvl 200 to get something like that through networking with friends, certainly not at the same opportunity cost.

You can go ahead and say that not everyone can afford it but that doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter because there's enough people who can afford.
These people are siphoned out from "working your way up" player pool thus making legit gear progress even more time consuming and miserable.

The end result is servers like Silvermoon EU Alliance where Group Finder is filled with M0¬3 runs for quick Valor and M15¬20 on top. Both groups dont want fresh 200 to slow them down. The upward mobility is crippled and the middle class is destroyed just like in USA.

That is why gear progression needs to be trivial.
Otherwise it will be commodified and people will be priced out.

[Aucald]

Let's drop the rolling game vs. game arguments and return to the topic of the thread concerning 9.1 and gearing.

[Revamp Man]

well unless im wrong the mawforged gear goes to the new normal ilvl and after farming you can get it to the new heroic which is what it is
it will still be met with "i have to farm it?? but these guys got it so much quicker and now its not as good for me waaahhhh"

[odamienskii]

Why would someone at ilvl 200 be trying to complete the same content as someone who is ilvl 220? They should be slowly working their way up to that level, not jumping straight from 200 ilvl gear to 220 groups. Hope this helps.

200 ilvl shamans / warriors / dhs / paladins / monks are absolutely assraping 220ilvl dks and resto druids in arenas right now as i write this.

Thats the biggest issue for me, the misbalance in class power is bigger than its ever been, sure there has been balance issues before, but not on this scale and so wide.

[Revamp Man]

No, actually it's pretty much what I'd like to see from a casual gearing system. But you keep having fun building strawmen to demolish

i mean theres another thread that is essentially exactly what i posted
players complaining that by the time they can get the gear there are others who easily outgear them and thus its not fair

[Kallisto]

Honestly it should just go all the way to the top, that way unlucky mythic raiders could make some use of it as well to fill out their set (without being forced of course).

Problem here is the moment anything goes to "mythic" level they'll claim they're forced. It's the nature of the beast for certain groups.

It either offers no player power and ergo might as well not exist.

Or does which as such makes it super forced. There's no in between.

[arkanon]

200 ilvl shamans / warriors / dhs / paladins / monks are absolutely assraping 220ilvl dks and resto druids in arenas right now as i write this.

Thats the biggest issue for me, the misbalance in class power is bigger than its ever been, sure there has been balance issues before, but not on this scale and so wide.

What on earth does class balance have to do with ilvl?

[odamienskii]

What on earth does class balance have to do with ilvl?

makes ilvl less important, whats more important is the class you play.

[shise]

I don´t know, I don´t really see it. Feels like a patch to give it a quick fix. I think that the game should go back to basics and scrap all these complex systems, for gearing and powers.
Let us do 2-3 raids at once, instead of making them obsolete, and do not give ilvl such an importance.. I much rather have to look into the equipment stats and what they´d do for my character than "oh, 50ilvl higher... this one" (and let´s face it, it is that way for the most part).

[Kaver]

Ulduar and togc and icc disagree

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They expressly did. The Legion weaposn were casual friendly content. It was the same power grind no matter what content you did at any pace you liked.

Again, I can agree that Hardcore players wanted the extreme version of the AP grind and Titanforging gone. That’s true. But the rest is just hyperbole and your own imagination running wild. Many of the changes made in SL is not something that the hardcore playerbase want. This is not a hardcore vs casual issue. It’s a Blizzard vs Players issue.

[Wangming]

Casual gearing for what exactly? The mythic only dungeon and the raid? Staggering amount of casual content.

[Frozenbro]

Not just currency but also renown... Basically this is just covenant gear upgraded to 9.1 levels.

In the video, you see the streamer click to rank 15 and the red text states



among the requirements. Assuming you get 3 renown per week that translates to about 12 weeks before can get to renown 75 and we know that's not the case since renown actually drops down to 2 renown per week towards the end (without campaign questline renown). So figure a minimum of 15 weeks?

Also remember that covenant gear required a significant investment of Anima if you were going to upgrade all the pieces, so translated to 9.1, that could be the new currency to be added in the patch. Similar to how Bethnic gear required pearls to upgrade which initially was fairly limited currency.

In terms of catch-up gear, it's expected but by the time a casual gets up to "heroic" sanctum gear ilvs, most players would probably be done with AoTC Sanctum.

Yeah sounds like it works the way you describe it, which is a good system honestly, by the time the people that actually need this system get to 237, everyone else will be done with the patch and everyone gets their progression, win for everyone... at least thats what i would want to say but im sure the same people will complain that its too slow and unrewarding cause they are "just 237", just wait for it.

[mysticx]

Yeah sounds like it works the way you describe it, which is a good system honestly, by the time the people that actually need this system get to 237, everyone else will be done with the patch and everyone gets their progression, win for everyone... at least thats what i would want to say but im sure the same people will complain that its too slow and unrewarding cause they are "just 237", just wait for it.

I agree with you, i'm a casual player, don't go beyond LfR really, the only thing i want is noticeable progression that i can work towards on my terms, i don't want (Let alone need) mythic raid gear, but i do want something i can work towards that makes me more powerful at the end of the patch than i was at the beginning.

Character progression is the basic lure of any RPG (MMO or otherwise), as long as i have that, i'm happy, the covenant gear system is fine too, if anything it was over a bit too quickly.

[Elias1337]

the game should invalidate all the stuff in my book, same ilvl should be obtainable even in world event things, raid and mm+ should only be about achivement doing them, why any normal player that play hundreds of hours in the game vs a mythic raider who do the same number of hours and both pay the same subs should have less stuff ?

its stupid and old thinking, its why people are quitting the game, they see that unless you are PL with luck with the 10% of the guild able to do mythic raid , you will never see your character going up in progression

Nobady will ever bother do harder content just to get some stupid achievement or cosmetic rewards which this games have thousands upon thousands alredy.

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Yeah sounds like it works the way you describe it, which is a good system honestly, by the time the people that actually need this system get to 237, everyone else will be done with the patch and everyone gets their progression, win for everyone... at least thats what i would want to say but im sure the same people will complain that its too slow and unrewarding cause they are "just 237", just wait for it.

If everybody wins. Nobady does. And if nobady can win there is no point playing game. Socialism/Communism never worked when comes to structure of our society and ir will not work in video game double time. Humans do not work this way and never will be.

[Echocho]

I agree with you, i'm a casual player, don't go beyond LfR really, the only thing i want is noticeable progression that i can work towards on my terms, i don't want (Let alone need) mythic raid gear, but i do want something i can work towards that makes me more powerful at the end of the patch than i was at the beginning.

Character progression is the basic lure of any RPG (MMO or otherwise), as long as i have that, i'm happy, the covenant gear system is fine too, if anything it was over a bit too quickly.

I think this is what most reasonable casual players want. Of course there are some crazy ones out there who want the best gear in the game but they're definitely a minority.

Being able to work towards the second best game in the game over a long period of time through LFG/LFR levels of difficulty has worked well in the past in WoW and in a lot of other games.

It keeps the casual playerbase from unsubscribing and it can be a fulfilling sense of progression.

What the game lacks is consistency in that department. If players knew that that form of progression would always be there they'd probably not have to unsubscribe as much. Any given patch can just not have it for some reason.

[Frozenbro]

If everybody wins. Nobady does. And if nobady can win there is no point playing game. Socialism/Communism never worked when comes to structure of our society and ir will not work in video game double time. Humans do not work this way and never will be.

Its just a way of saying it, they are gonna be 237 tops, which is still 2 ilvl below heroic, and when they get to 237, heroic raiders and specially mythic raiders will be already done with the tier for weeks if not months, if you check the video, its renown gated, which means they will need like 15 weeks to start getting 237, most mythic/heroic guilds are gonna be way past 237 ilvl by the time we get to that 15th week.