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  1. #1

    How to end the casual vs hardcore issue once and for all

    World tiers?

  2. #2
    Esports damaged this game.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    World tiers?
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...fficulty-Modes

    literally a couple of threads down. You need to understand an "issue" before you can solve it. To understand the casual vs hardcore issue, both things need to be clearly defined. Spend 30 mins on this forum, as i can clearly see you have, and you know full well there is more argument about what constitutes casual or hardcore, than there is about any of the "issues" facing either camp.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2021-05-08 at 01:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.

  4. #4
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Casuals don't play WoW anymore. They've been filtered out over the past 7 years. By this point WoW is "raid, PvP, or unsub". Nobody stays subbed just to do pet battles or till their farm or train Cloud Serpents anymore.

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  5. #5
    maybe they can introduce world tiers with m+ modifiers

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    maybe they can introduce world tiers with m+ modifiers

    Maybe you can add more to your supposed "discussion" than just a word.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    maybe they can introduce world tiers with m+ modifiers
    Yeah let's add more ways to fragment the community and make it more awkward to group with friends. Phasing, sharding and layers wasn't enough, let's also have it split into difficulty modes...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    World tiers?
    Or just make compelling content for different types of players and don’t make systems that push those different groups to play together where they make each other miserable.

    This is a lot less complicated than people make it out to be. The problem is that the casual content is abysmal, among the worst of any major MMO, and it is constructed to push casual players out of that content and into harder and harder content where they inevitably conflict with hardcore players.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by exsanguinate View Post
    Esports damaged this game.
    no.
    casuals who demanded rewards for casual content made the game what it is now. we all have to do their mandatory trivial content, that is only time consuming and nothing fun

    and after they all pay for it because they have no time to do anything that was always the core of the game.. but they get their achievements and mounts so everything is allright

  11. #11
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Casuals don't play WoW anymore. They've been filtered out over the past 7 years. By this point WoW is "raid, PvP, or unsub". Nobody stays subbed just to do pet battles or till their farm or train Cloud Serpents anymore.
    Eh.. Uhm... At least a minority of a few thousand people do so, either under the tag of 'casual' or by the tag of 'world player'.

    And there is a lot of possibilities for world content but is not permitted due to the focus being on PvP, Raiding, and M+.

    Some progression in world content got removed because certain people felt 'forced' to do said content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by heheszek View Post
    no.
    casuals who demanded rewards for casual content made the game what it is now. we all have to do their mandatory trivial content, that is only time consuming and nothing fun
    The only 'mandatory' in the game is leveling, the rest you can do in an instance unless you need professions, then you can exit to go to the auction.

    That is the only world content that is 'mandatory'.

    If you do not wish to level or gear, then this game is not for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Or just make compelling content for different types of players and don’t make systems that push those different groups to play together where they make each other miserable.
    I wouldn't mind more world content or less coordinated content such as Torghast.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  12. #12
    The problem is not content. The problem is rewards tied to the content.

    There a lot of “casual” things to do even atm, but rewards they give in term of gear ilvl are near to crap. If you can’t bother about PvP, M+ or raids, when you’re done upgrading all your covenant set to 197, plus some lucky world boss drops, plus the legendary, plus some boe in AH (if you have money), you’re done.

    Blizzard can triple or quadruple the “casual” content but if rewards are crappy people will whine anyways.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Eh.. Uhm... At least a minority of a few thousand people do so, either under the tag of 'casual' or by the tag of 'world player'.

    And there is a lot of possibilities for world content but is not permitted due to the focus being on PvP, Raiding, and M+.

    Some progression in world content got removed because certain people felt 'forced' to do said content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The only 'mandatory' in the game is leveling, the rest you can do in an instance unless you need professions, then you can exit to go to the auction.

    That is the only world content that is 'mandatory'.

    If you do not wish to level or gear, then this game is not for you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I wouldn't mind more world content or less coordinated content such as Torghast.
    ok so tell me how to play pvp or pve(m+, raids) to get soul ash or stygia and conduits(pvp) or get renown lvl
    and if u think legendary item with passive stronger than any other thing in the game for char proggresion is not mandatory then dont reply to my post

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Or just make compelling content for different types of players and don’t make systems that push those different groups to play together where they make each other miserable.

    This is a lot less complicated than people make it out to be. The problem is that the casual content is abysmal, among the worst of any major MMO, and it is constructed to push casual players out of that content and into harder and harder content where they inevitably conflict with hardcore players.
    The solution is simple, but it absolutely is not creating a million different systems for a million different types of players. Attempting to cater to everyone all the time is exactly how we ended up in this mess to begin with. That approach wastes valuable, finite resources and results in a product that is of markedly lower quality for everyone, regardless of whether you're a "casual" or "hardcore" player. Any population will self-segregate and this can't be avoided, but as was mentioned above, phasing, sharding, and layers seem to exacerbate the problem as well.

    Remember that WoW skyrocketed to mass popularity because it was accessible, rounding off the edges of then-current MMOs like Everquest and DAoC. I'd wager a return to a simpler, more streamlined design would serve WoW well, instead of the current complexity for complexity's sake philosophy.

    Make it brutal or just send tier sets in the mail, but for God's sake, pick a lane and do it well.
    Last edited by Grax; 2021-05-08 at 12:20 PM. Reason: GRAMMAR!

  15. #15
    The "issue" wont be ever solved unless the game is tailored for every player out there and thats impossible, on top of every single person having their own definition of casual, just browse some threads and have a laugh

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    The solution is simple, but it absolutely is not creating a million different systems for a million different types of players. Attempting to cater to everyone all the time is exactly how we ended up in this mess to begin with. That approach wastes valuable, finite resources and results in a product that is of markedly lower quality for everyone, regardless of whether you're a "casual" or "hardcore" player. Any population will self-segregate and this can't be avoided, but as was mentioned above, phasing, sharding, and layers seem to exacerbate the problem as well.

    Remember that WoW skyrocketed to mass popularity because it was accessible, rounding off the edges of then-current MMOs like Everquest and DAoC. I'd wager a return to a simpler, more streamlined design would serve WoW well, instead of the current complexity for complexity's sake philosophy.

    Make it brutal or just send tier sets in the mail, but for God's sake, pick a lane and do it well.
    I don't know why you are talking about more systems. I talked about more content. Those aren't the same thing. In fact, nothing you said actually counters anything I said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    The problem is not content. The problem is rewards tied to the content.

    There a lot of “casual” things to do even atm, but rewards they give in term of gear ilvl are near to crap. If you can’t bother about PvP, M+ or raids, when you’re done upgrading all your covenant set to 197, plus some lucky world boss drops, plus the legendary, plus some boe in AH (if you have money), you’re done.

    Blizzard can triple or quadruple the “casual” content but if rewards are crappy people will whine anyways.
    The casual things to do these days suck. You can go into casual pvp and get roflstomped by rated pvpers. You can go into casual dungeons and outgear them in a week. You can go do the casual world content that is absurdly time gated and incredibly boring.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  17. #17
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heheszek View Post
    ok so tell me how to play pvp or pve(m+, raids) to get soul ash or stygia and conduits(pvp) or get renown lvl
    and if u think legendary item with passive stronger than any other thing in the game for char proggresion is not mandatory then dont reply to my post
    Technically, unless I've missed anything, Stygia is not really needed in PvP, Raid or M+. Unless I missed something - unless you buy the random conduit thing from Ve'nari. Getting renown is under the category of leveling. Soul Ash is not really world content or casual content either, it is another instance. Conduits, you gain through playing the game, basics in world content, rest in instanced content.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Technically, unless I've missed anything, Stygia is not really needed in PvP, Raid or M+. Unless I missed something - unless you buy the random conduit thing from Ve'nari. Getting renown is under the category of leveling. Soul Ash is not really world content or casual content either, it is another instance. Conduits, you gain through playing the game, basics in world content, rest in instanced content.
    Redefining an explicitly endgame system as "leveling" in order to make a point really isn't making your argument look honest.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I don't know why you are talking about more systems. I talked about more content. Those aren't the same thing. In fact, nothing you said actually counters anything I said.
    The content is out there, but the rewards arent appealing enough, and thats the issue, but its an issue that wont be solved, blizz wont give out mythic/2400 rating gear for solo progression, heroic ilvl tops, cause they dont cater to solo players, and hopefully they never do.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    The content is out there, but the rewards arent appealing enough, and thats the issue, but its an issue that wont be solved, blizz wont give out mythic/2400 rating gear for solo progression, heroic ilvl tops, cause they dont cater to solo players, and hopefully they never do.
    Both things suck. The content sucks. The rewards suck. The systems that organize both of those things suck too.

    And if your "hope" is for the game to continue declining and having less resources devoted to it by Blizzard/Activision, good luck with your ridiculous self-sabotage. At least you'll still have a nice fluffy ego to break your fall.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

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