How to end the casual vs hardcore issue once and for all

[Lochton]

Redefining an explicitly endgame system as "leveling" in order to make a point really isn't making your argument look honest.

Eh, I don't see Renown as 'explicitly endgame', it is built to the story that has been developed which I consider just another section of leveling to gain unlocks. Nothing more.

[Frozenbro]

Technically, unless I've missed anything, Stygia is not really needed in PvP, Raid or M+. Unless I missed something - unless you buy the random conduit thing from Ve'nari. Getting renown is under the category of leveling. Soul Ash is not really world content or casual content either, it is another instance. Conduits, you gain through playing the game, basics in world content, rest in instanced content.

Just dont try to make a point when you are just wrong xd stygia is definitely needed, so are conduits that cant be farmed at all in instanced content, but im not gonna explain this since you clearly dont understand this if you tried to make this your point.

[NineSpine]

Eh, I don't see Renown as 'explicitly endgame', it is built to the story that has been developed which I consider just another section of leveling to gain unlocks. Nothing more.

It literally starts at max level. It is endgame.

[Elias1337]

Casuals don't play WoW anymore. They've been filtered out over the past 7 years. By this point WoW is "raid, PvP, or unsub". Nobody stays subbed just to do pet battles or till their farm or train Cloud Serpents anymore.

Current game is most casual game iits has ever been so how is it that casuals are quiting game? Hmmm i wonder if by making game more casual, more acessible and easyer cause casual playerbase quit. Hmmm who would though that game desing is more important than casuals crying on forums that something is way too hard.

[Lochton]

It literally starts at max level. It is endgame.

Different views of endgame then. The renown to me is just the storyline. You don't even need max current renown to do the raids.

[NineSpine]

Different views of endgame then. The renown to me is just the storyline. You don't even need max current renown to do the raids.

The term endgame exists to distinguish from the leveling game. It is a meaningless term if you start calling max level activities "leveling".

[Lochton]

Just dont try to make a point when you are just wrong xd stygia is definitely needed, so are conduits that cant be farmed at all in instanced content, but im not gonna explain this since you clearly dont understand this if you tried to make this your point.

Well, for Stygia, I've missed something I guess, and expect you to tell me what, else it isn't really much argument on that. I know you can get random conduit upgrades, that is it.

The majority of my conduits has been from playing the game, gaining basics, and the dungeons - I do admit, I forgot about the callings. Oh the horrors of basic tasks.

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The term endgame exists to distinguish from the leveling game. It is a meaningless term if you start calling max level activities "leveling".

I've never considered Renown as endgame. We can agree to disagree on that part.

[NineSpine]

Current game is most casual game iits has ever been so how is it that casuals are quiting game? Hmmm i wonder if by making game more casual, more acessible and easyer cause casual playerbase quit. Hmmm who would though that game desing is more important than casuals crying on forums that something is way too hard.

This idea that the game is the most casual it has ever been is absurd. WoW is by far, by miles, by light years, the least casual friendly major MMO on the market. It's comical how aggressively anti-casual retail WoW is. The leveling game is the crux of casual content in MMOs and WoW has almost completely obliterated leveling. The casual endgame content is outgeared incredibly quickly. There are no rewards whatsoever for casual group content once you outgear it in the days to weeks it takes to get to that point. The world content is incredibly bad, just flying to random quests that have no crafted experience or coherent design to them at all, and the rewards for that content very quickly are just cosmetic.

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Well, for Stygia, I've missed something I guess, and expect you to tell me what, else it isn't really much argument on that. I know you can get random conduit upgrades, that is it.

The majority of my conduits has been from playing the game, gaining basics, and the dungeons - I do admit, I forgot about the callings. Oh the horrors of basic tasks.

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I've never considered Renown as endgame. We can agree to disagree on that part.

Sure, and if you want to call a cow a cat, we can agree to disagree on the definition of cat but that doesn't make you coherent.

[heheszek]

Technically, unless I've missed anything, Stygia is not really needed in PvP, Raid or M+. Unless I missed something - unless you buy the random conduit thing from Ve'nari. Getting renown is under the category of leveling. Soul Ash is not really world content or casual content either, it is another instance. Conduits, you gain through playing the game, basics in world content, rest in instanced content.

if getting renown is under category of leveling hmmm maybe then world quests should be under category of instanced content since its in a realm shard and every zone is instance at some point and its limited like instances goes per day/week
but to the point..

stygia = casual trivial way of getting char better + it improves ur char by a lot by upgrading conduits and adding sockets to your items
soul ash = casual trivial instanced content that u do weekly over and over and over again to get bis ilvl secondary stat item with powerful effect that is better probably better than any talent tier or pvp talent, u have to do it or you are super behind +++++ u have to do it multiple of times sometimes and it takes MONTHS
renown= casual daily/weekly content that you do to unlock certain perks for your char, if u are for some reason behind with it even by 1 point u cant upgrade for example pvp items you cant unlock powerful perk in convenant talent tree

and it wouldnt be a problem if it was faster, or u could get that by doing "competitive content" like rated pvp or m+/raids

back in the day you logged in and did whatever you wanted, and it was a problem for some players because they didnt know what they want so blizz implemented a lot of progression systems

for me its a lot more fun to play for example even 5 alts and do same content but from different perspective, than doing torghast, maw, convenant campain over and over just to start doing things that require more effort (skill not time)

[JABoyle3875]

Casuals don't play WoW anymore. They've been filtered out over the past 7 years. By this point WoW is "raid, PvP, or unsub". Nobody stays subbed just to do pet battles or till their farm or train Cloud Serpents anymore.

Yuuuup.

I did a 6 month sub a month ago, with the goal of finishing out my allied race leveling for some sweet sweet heritage armor.

I topped out my Dark Iron Dwarf, moved on to the next toon...and just lost all desire. I get them leveled up, great, I get the heritage armor.

Then what? I hate SL with a burning passion, so any toon I level up to 50 is going to sit there until SL gets folded in to Chromie time and as such can be skippable. But even then, with whatever the next expansion will be, I have ZERO faith in Ion and his shenanigans to make a game that I will enjoy playing. The 10.0 xpac will be the first one in the history of the game that I don't preorder, and I see no reason to buy it even when it goes on sale later.

(And I've given up hoping for new heritage armor for core races, you would think if they cared about that they would have put a new pair out with the start of SL)

The casual vs hardcore debate - I'd say the death of the game (and I mean real death - like they turn off the servers) would be the end of it, but this debate will shamble on until the end of time simply because after the game stops it will evolve into "WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM STOPPING IT"...

[heheszek]

Technically, unless I've missed anything, Stygia is not really needed in PvP, Raid or M+. Unless I missed something - unless you buy the random conduit thing from Ve'nari. Getting renown is under the category of leveling. Soul Ash is not really world content or casual content either, it is another instance. Conduits, you gain through playing the game, basics in world content, rest in instanced content.

if getting renown is under category of leveling hmmm maybe then world quests should be under category of instanced content since its in a realm shard and every zone is instance at some point and its limited like instances goes per day/week


stygia = casual trivial way of getting char better + it improves ur char by a lot by upgrading conduits and adding sockets to your items
soul ash = casual trivial instanced content that u do weekly over and over and over again to get bis ilvl secondary stat item with powerful effect that is better probably better than any talent tier or pvp talent, u have to do it or you are super behind
renown= casual daily/weekly content that you do to unlock certain perks for your char, if u are for some reason behind with it even by 1 point u cant upgrade for example pvp items you cant unlock powerful perk in convenant talent tree

and it wouldnt be a problem if it was faster, or u could get that by doing "competitive content" like rated pvp or m+/raids

back in the day you logged in and did whatever you wanted, and it was a problem for some players because they didnt know what they want so blizz implemented a lot of progression systems

for me its a lot more fun to play for example even 5 alts and do same content but from different perspective, than doing torghast, maw, convenant campain over and over just to start doing things that require more effort (skill not time)

todays wow is like playing single player game on super easy mode and if u decide to do harder content u are fucked because u have to finish that easy one 1000000times

they should give them casuals something from torghast/maw/renown campain but also they should allow us to ignore that content and earn its "char unlocking" segment with something like echoes of nyalotha

[Azerate]

There's nothing to "end" or "fix". The game should just continue to cater to both and those who want to whine about it should be left to themselves.

[Lurker1]

World tiers?

Im think more like what rift did they have a full raids for instances and full raids for non-instance players in the outdoor world.but i doubt blizzard would ever use some common sense and do that.

[Gourbaak]

there is no issue outside of toxic community like mmochampion

[shise]

You can not and also, you can be a hard core casual, or a min max casual, or a hard core noob.

It is all a mix of time, dedication and skill. Those 3 can be configured in a quite a few ways.

[Aucald]

This is being discussed more constructively in another thread. Closing this.