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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Huge place, epic vehicle start, different environments, Old Gods, great encounters (Especially after rehashed Naxx), introduction of hard modes, WoW player base peaking.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  2. #42
    I did enjoy uld, it was / is a good raid. But it's far from my favorite raid. It's very hard for me to fairly compare all raids, as the general state of the game, and my life at the time play a large factor in my feelings towards a raid. I don't like the current raid that much - mechanically it's ok, but I just don't enjoy it. But I'm far from a fan of SL in general, and have extremely limited time to play right now anyway, and under a very heavy workload. Maybe if those things were different, I would view it more highly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.

  3. #43
    Bloodsail Admiral Malania's Avatar
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    Do not push the big red button!

    I enjoyed Ulduar as a whole however there's fights there that just bored me to death. More so than any other raid in WothLK.

    Ignis, Razorscale, Assembly, Auriaya, Freya and General Vezax. Optional hard modes were what saved it as well as Yogg Saron.
    Last edited by Malania; 2021-05-10 at 12:23 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    At the time, Ulduar was kind of reviled for a handful of things -- it was absurdly long, not helped by excessive amounts of trash and especially gauntlets that existed not only between each boss but were even a part of given boss fights but hell was even the very start of the raid. People also didn't care much for the vehicle portion of the fight, although people still seemed to like it more than Malygos', even if people seemed to like running things like Sarth, Maly, Ony, and Naxx because, frankly, they all took less time. Even Naxx, which was in practicality just as long was considered shorter because people knew their way around better and the strats were more familiar and figured out then. By comparison, people progressing on Ulduar had to make decision if they wanted to extend the lockout to progress or reset to gear up again. In the meantime, vanity rewards like mounts and bags and so on for the other single-boss raids were pretty popular, and achievements like 3 Drakes Maly's speed kill were also celebrated, though it started out more niche but quickly became more frequently common as the expansion went on. Ulduar, meanwhile, had very few vanity rewards and wasn't as commonly ran for special rewards outside the healing Legendary, of which was very laborious and took a long time to assemble -- kind of like how the rest of the raid took a long time to complete.

    Ulduar at the time was just in general considered very long, and a chore, by comparison to the other raids available at the time. Yet despite how popular ToC was for its catch-up dungeon equivalent and tournament ground gearing, people despised the associated jousting mini-game and vehicles as well more than the vehicles of Ulduar, and it seemed in comparison to Malygos' Occulus teaching dungeon that Ulduar just did the vehicles the best way and that not even open-world daily quests with the horses would be a preferable way to experience things, as people quickly burned themselves out on the vehicles while trying to earn all the various mounts from the tournament. When ICC eventually came out, and had no vehicles, it was basically praised into the sun and back for it (Gunship was an auto-win) and despite being apparently as long as Ulduar in terms of bosses the gauntlets weren't as frequent and certainly not as long which was also praised. At the time, if you had asked people about Ulduar, it may have been their least favorite to actually run for progression -- people resenting it because ToC caught everyone else up on all the other gearing except for the Legendary, which didn't get any significantly easier to grind out like the earlier raid content and still took just as long through a raid that didn't even really get much faster to run due to all the gauntlets and trash.

    If I remember Ulduar for anything, it's the trash. There was so much of it, everywhere, filling so many nooks and crannies, for these super long stretches and even not all the teleports to skip up to certain bosses were all there. It could be a pain to run back during Ulduar - and it probably would have been a colossal nightmare if it hadn't had the teleport pads.

    At the time, when I think back on Wrath, I much preferred ToC - no trash, good catch-up sources all around to prepare for ICC, and it didn't take forever to get through everything but there was still plenty of reward to be had. ToC may have had its share of problems with waiting for RP, and hell so did ICC -- people Alliance side used to complain about Jaina crying for the King -- but as someone who liked story at the time I was more than happy to experience Garrosh and Varian spit back at each other or Saurfang cry over his son than go through another twelve trash gauntlets in Ulduar.

    No raid is perfect. It can be easy to forget the things people complained about when it came to raids back in the day, and how miserable some people were with some forms of content at the time. Especially as the content got easier -- and hell, faster -- to solo in the future with even more convenience even being added over time like another teleport pad location and adjustments to pulling entire rooms and fixing glaring bugs that could keep you stuck in the passive-root-fiesta forever. As someone who ran Ulduar, I considered some bosses some of my favorite of the expansion - Hodir I considered particularly excellent, and hell I'd generally consider it a good raid. But it was still probably my least favorite raid of Wrath when I look back on it now. Ulduar had some of the highest highs, but it also had the lowest lows. By comparison to Sarth, Maly, Ony, Naxx, ToC, and ICC, they all had great highs as well, but for the life of me I can't remember the lows for those nearly as much as Ulduar: the ultimate slog-fest and the ultimate trash gauntlet.
    This. This is more how I remember it.

    Still have bad memories of the Heroic Mimiron fight. And they're reignited each time someone runs over and presses the button in a time walk.

  5. #45
    Ulduar is the Star Trek: The Next Generation of raids - remembered for its absolutely outstanding moments, while the garbage chaff in between is conveniently forgotten about

  6. #46
    Ulduar was amazing. My all time favourite with Karazhan. Funny Bosses, Serious Bosses. Could have gone without the vehicle bosss though.

    But i rather keep my good memories because raids just don't hold up after a while anymore. Mechanics get dull. Character and flair stays. BUT after running it more than once again it gets obvious that it is old sadly.

    Newer raids don't have that... something... Nathria tried it. We played around it outside. But it never really... made a connection. Ulduar was a huge structure we leveled around and saw everwhere but did not know anything about. Slowly learned some stuff about it via dungeons (which also are amazing imho) and the got it as a raidtier later on.
    And honestly.... who doesnt't like old mysterious ruins? When did we had the last ruin raid?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah, most of the fights are well designed.

    What Blizzard doesn't achieve for me anymore is an organic and memorable raid "building". After 4 month of CN you could put me in the empty castle and say "go to Inervas room" and I have absolutely no clue how to get there. Ulduar on the other hand no problem.
    If after four months you don't know how to get to a boss that says a lot more about you than the raid.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  8. #48
    Ulduar had a lot of work put in. Ulduar had a lot more prep time than most raids since they saved a lot of time reusing Naxx with some adjustments. We'll never see anything quite like Ulduar since if they reused an old tier these days the uproar would be too great.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Wotlk raids was (for me) the pinnacle of wow raiding.
    Ulduar was the best raid I have ever raided, maybe just because of memories.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    and with strange Aeons even Death may die.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    The four keepers in particular had so much immersion and were just really fun fights on top of it.
    I loved Mimiron, even his trash was quite fun. And the train... the first time my guild got there we 'wasted' time going back and forth on it, it was just that cool.

    It remains my favourite raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    "Casuals didn't participate as much" =/= "Ulduar was not successful"

    See also: Naxxramas Vanilla

    Normal Uld10 wasn't even very difficult.
    That depended on whether you had only 10-man loot. If you were strictly 10-man, some of the Ulduar-10 fights weren't easy, especially the hardmodes. Thorim HM10 was no joke in Ulduar10 gear. That said, it wasn't like some of the Cata raids where you had the odd 10-man fight that was just insane because the mechanics didn't scale down to only 10 players well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    In terms of numbers, yes you're probably right. In terms of content for those who did see it, it's probably the best they've ever delivered. They spent an absurd amount of effort and time on the raid and it was simply not that accessible for your average gamer, which is quite clearly what lead us to having Normal/Heroic and later flex modes. On top of raiding it every week with my guild, I pugged it on alts every week as well. Nearly no pugs kept going after XT because it was simply too hard for your average uncoordinated raid.
    For me Wrath was an amazing time to be a raider. There was still a great server community. Raids were fairly accessible, so putting together pugs was workable. 10-man and 25-man raids being completely separate meant any given character could raid a place twice a week.

    I used to raid 2-3 times a week with my guild, twice on my main doing progression and then on an alt in late-night runs we'd do for people in non-US time zones doing 10-mans (because the guild was strictly 10-man, and one of the most progressed in the US at the time, despite being on a small not very progression-minded server). Then I'd raid a couple of times a week with pugs (I say 'pug' but we had a sort of core group that were regulars and then we'd fill it out with puggers), usually doing 25-mans. These usually didn't get very far due to the usual pug and 25-man problems - slow to form, people leaving constantly, the time it took to co-ordinate a 25-man raid full of people of hugely differing skill levels, etc.

    This was helped by having a lot of free time back then, mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    And Kologarn was another.... wow its a fucking living statue blocking our path moment to experience.
    We used to have player who'd never been in there before go into the room first for the "Whoa! F****k!" experience when Kologarn rises up to block the way. Always worthwhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fckblizzard View Post
    When I see people put throne of thunder anywhere remotely close to something like ulduar i cannot imagine the ammount of cocaine enhanced heroin trance you people must've been on when you played that shit.

    All I remember about throne of bullshit was how BORING everything was after ironically, the TROLL bosses, which everyone was saturated with at this point.

    The final boss was literally dodging (and still getting hit) by endless AOE spam and I cannot remember any of the other bosses no matter how hard I try.
    My guild stalled on that damned turtle. I think we got it once when it was current and could never repeat that.

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