What would it take for you to support a 3rd or Alternative Party?

[Theodarzna]

Add some strong environmental protections and dismantling the CIA to that list and you have a deal.

Ideally a lot of this would reduce industrial pollution and CO2 emissions in general. BUT a full on combination of Nuclear, Wind, Solar and Geo seems to be a way to solve the power problem and probably fixing the power grid in general is needed. Better regulation of plastics or even switching over to bio-degradable plastics in most circumstances, and especially soft plastics. Plus a jobs programs to scoop up crap in the Pacific, just pay some guys with some nets to go out there and gather crap.


And yeah, CIA gets shipped off to various countries to face whatever fate they deserve.

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Wow I’m surprised I agree with all but two of your points.

I’m against rank choice voting, and #14.

I think #17 honestly would end illegal immigration over night. Just about every educated nation does this. We on the other hand like to keep it political.

Ranked-Choice is just my go to for "America probably needs Multiple parties".

If we wanted to get super radical I'd also just restructure the whole government, mainly whichever party controls the House of Reps picks the president and reduce the senate to mainly oversight, advice, and amendments but I'd say maybe too much power is in that body. So like in 2018/19 when Nancy became Speaker I'd say Trumps presidency should have just ended; as in he is dismissed from power since what is the point of a person whose mandate is kind of dead but not dead occupying the office were they have just enough power to stop stuff, but no power to do anything? So I guess things would work a lot more like the UK, Canada or any continental European state. Control the House of Reps, and you control the White House. This also incidentally is my solution to the electoral college conundrum.

As for why America doesn't do this sort of thing vis a vis illegal immigration, well, we do love making sure Tyson Chicken and ConAgra are never left wanting.

[DingDongKing]

Having a great platform is absolutely primary, but you also need to be able to win.

[uuuhname]

viability to even be voted into office. forget reaching he bare minimum to get onto the ballot, we've seen that over and over and these 3rd parties still only manage to get a fraction of a fraction of the vote. unless they can overcome the vice grip the two major parties have then I really don't feel like wasting my time or vote on them.

[Hadriker]

A platform isn't what keeps people from voting 3rd party. Its that 3rd parties can't win national elections and can only rarely hold lower offices. We'd need Ranked Choice or some other voting system besides first pass the post.

Currently if you want your vote to count for something other than a spoiler you have to choose which of the 2 big tents is closer to your actual beliefs.


Do that and the US becomes a multi party system overnight.

[tehdang]

It would take literally a decade of one of the two major parties not being able to achieve 30% representation in either the House or the Senate. This would speak to their failure to attract a sufficient coalition of voters over time. Four or eight years is insufficient for slow-to-evolve political stances, and giving voters a chance to look back and judge the recent past.

I’m discounting a protest vote for a third party, which I might do as soon as the next election. This is not true support for the third party, but rejection of either major party candidate. That’s just an expression of displeasure with the candidates nominated by primary. I do not live in a “swing state.”

[Stormspellz]

current scenario to take me voting for 3rd party in the current environment would be a tea party like take over by the corporate centrists in the democrat party and a viable birth of a true progressive party that wouldn't sabotage an election that the traitors aka republicans take power.

[Lenonis]

There are two things IMO preventing third parties from being viable.

First - the system is overwhelming stacked against them. Between the issue we have with money in politics along with the winner-takes-all system it's a problem for third parties to be anything other than a major liability for the party they are more closely ideologically aligned to.

Second - I really need third parties to stop trying to cut to the head of the line. I see far more rhetoric and money being spent for presidential races and yet when I look at my local offices third parties are almost entirely absent. Props to the green party for trying to get some headway in local elections. You want to be a major political force in this country? Run for local offices first, then work your way up to national office. Otherwise you'll never have enough of a political fingerprint to be a major factor.

[DarkTZeratul]

Second - I really need third parties to stop trying to cut to the head of the line. I see far more rhetoric and money being spent for presidential races and yet when I look at my local offices third parties are almost entirely absent. Props to the green party for trying to get some headway in local elections. You want to be a major political force in this country? Run for local offices first, then work your way up to national office. Otherwise you'll never have enough of a political fingerprint to be a major factor.

To add to this, they need to stop sitting around with their thumbs up their butts until after the Democrats and Republicans hold their primaries. By that point, they've long since missed their chance to be relevant in the news cycle. You know when they should start getting in the news about running in 2024? January 21st, 2021.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Ideally a lot of this would reduce industrial pollution and CO2 emissions in general. BUT a full on combination of Nuclear, Wind, Solar and Geo seems to be a way to solve the power problem and probably fixing the power grid in general is needed. Better regulation of plastics or even switching over to bio-degradable plastics in most circumstances, and especially soft plastics. Plus a jobs programs to scoop up crap in the Pacific, just pay some guys with some nets to go out there and gather crap.


And yeah, CIA gets shipped off to various countries to face whatever fate they deserve.

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Ranked-Choice is just my go to for "America probably needs Multiple parties".

If we wanted to get super radical I'd also just restructure the whole government, mainly whichever party controls the House of Reps picks the president and reduce the senate to mainly oversight, advice, and amendments but I'd say maybe too much power is in that body. So like in 2018/19 when Nancy became Speaker I'd say Trumps presidency should have just ended; as in he is dismissed from power since what is the point of a person whose mandate is kind of dead but not dead occupying the office were they have just enough power to stop stuff, but no power to do anything? So I guess things would work a lot more like the UK, Canada or any continental European state. Control the House of Reps, and you control the White House. This also incidentally is my solution to the electoral college conundrum.

As for why America doesn't do this sort of thing vis a vis illegal immigration, well, we do love making sure Tyson Chicken and ConAgra are never left wanting.

This is true which is why the whole Build the Wall and targeting migrant workers from the south of darker skin has always been bullshit. Having citizenship in Canada and the U.S I can tell you first hand the difference between immigration is night and day. If you migrate to Canada without going through properly YOU are literally not going to get a job, be able to provide for yourself, and no companies are going to risk helping unless they want to deal with serious federal charges.

Which is pretty common in many other countries as well, I am talking about Illegal immigration, we in the U.S have over the years had plenty of measures to combat it, but because both red and blue rely on illegal's immigration especially the big red states.

It's like the War on Drugs or anything else if you go after and arrest those actually responsible for the problem a large chunk of the problem would gone over night.


As for the rank choice voting, my problem with it comes from all the lame lazy excuses people use to be less informed and less educated and less responsible for their vote. I honestly think the two part system we have here is better.

Because at least there are some core values and beliefs people feel strongly about in both parties that people from different backgrounds can agree.


As for the rest of your ideas I am 100% in agreement. They are pretty logical and reasonable.


Keep in mind while I say the War on Drugs is stupid, I don't think the war on drugs is a criminal matter as much as it is a medical one.

[Karreck]

If Third Parties want to be viable, then they need to start at the local or state level. Some rando Libertarian or Green Party candidate for President every four years is not going build confidence in a legit third party candidate.

[Theodarzna]

As for the rank choice voting, my problem with it comes from all the lame lazy excuses people use to be less informed and less educated and less responsible for their vote. I honestly think the two part system we have here is better.

Because at least there are some core values and beliefs people feel strongly about in both parties that people from different backgrounds can agree.


As for the rest of your ideas I am 100% in agreement. They are pretty logical and reasonable.


Keep in mind while I say the War on Drugs is stupid, I don't think the war on drugs is a criminal matter as much as it is a medical one.

We will have to disagree. I'd say all it has created is a stilted politics that mostly doesn't represent much. We have two parties that on most important issues are identical. Basically two parties that serve the spy agencies, military contractors, financial institutions and have slightly different views on culture war games aren't much of a political choice.

Neither of America's two parties have substantive core values differences. It all feels very kayfabe and kabuki theater. But that is something you and I disagree on pretty wildly.

As for the rest, yeah it seems like a better way to work things on say illegal immigration since I want to heavily penalize labor exploiters.

[Doctor Amadeus]

We will have to disagree. I'd say all it has created is a stilted politics that mostly doesn't represent much. We have two parties that on most important issues are identical. Basically two parties that serve the spy agencies, military contractors, financial institutions and have slightly different views on culture war games aren't much of a political choice.

Neither of America's two parties have substantive core values differences. It all feels very kayfabe and kabuki theater. But that is something you and I disagree on pretty wildly.

As for the rest, yeah it seems like a better way to work things on say illegal immigration since I want to heavily penalize labor exploiters.

They aren't identical parties, just because you can and should be critical of both doesn't mean they are the same problem. Which is why I am all for educating those that can be and ignoring those who know better and choose to be stupid.

I am not for telling people what they want to hear or selling them bullshit for a vote, even if I personally think it's for their own good or even if it is. Each person has a vote, but that vote should be informed and educated.

Because when it's not you get exactly what is happening to Trump, people used and lied to so hard they divorced fucking reality. That isn't to say it doesn't happen on some level anywhere, but the problem is when people lean into it. Of course in the long run it falls apart and once Trump is done the damage he has done none chained to him will ever recover.

Yes Democrats have more than one time had egg on their face and more than once had other liberals and Democrats take them down even when I haven't always agreed.

The fact you don't know there is a core substantive difference is all the proof in the world why I would be against rank choice voting, mostly because you don't even know enough NOW, encouraging people to know less isn't helpful.


Democrats platform is that of community government, we are the government by the people for the people.

Republicans platform is that of total freedom and independence, each man an opportunist and with liberty free to realize their happiness.


That is literally the core platform of either, regardless to left right, liberal or conservative, or any other political leaning They are Political Parties if you seek a platform other than either mentioned that is why I am asking about a third value.

So what is THE MOST important to you aside from either of those things?

I am a Democrat full stop life long because I believe the ONLY course for a future to progress is through Community meaning Unity and people coming to common Good. Freedom is important but we enjoy more freedom when we all have a say and we all protect it.


I know politics can get contentious but Republican doesn't = EVIL per say or Enemy, I know in rhetoric is can but it simply means applying Politically a Different way the same ideas for America.

That the Individuals, through their own merit tied to the Union assure Freedom Independence.

[cubby]

What would it take for you to support a 3rd or Alternative Party, What issues are most important to you?

I wouldn't. The only third party that would be close to what I want is from the Democrats. And if that party splits, the GOP will take over. And any party that splits from the GOP will just be more of some of the same.

[Felya]

I know politics can get contentious but Republican doesn't = EVIL per say or Enemy, I know in rhetoric is can but it simply means applying Politically a Different way the same ideas for America.

There is no such thing as evil... “superman does good, you are doing well”...

When it comes to government, discussions focusing on good vs evil is only used for politicians who are poor at their job. Politicians who fail at governance, gaining popular support for their policy or betterment of a nation, are simply poor at being politicians. As soon as politicians are pushing good vs evil, you can know without a doubt, that they failed as politicians.

Just think about which politicians were the most hung up on good vs evil. Which politicians were little about policy, but mostly about said dichotomy. Do you remember any of them fondly? The axis of evil? The destruction of western civilization?

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I wouldn't. The only third party that would be close to what I want is from the Democrats. And if that party splits, the GOP will take over. And any party that splits from the GOP will just be more of some of the same.

It also helps to deconstruct what people are saying. For example... Which of the preceding third party candidates, would one even support? Nader for the left and Parrot for the right?

Even as a Nader fan back in the day, with hindsight... Gore was a better choice... he was ahead of just about anyone in politics, about the environment. It took 21 years for an American president to sign off on an off shore wind farm...

[Fugus]

I know politics can get contentious but Republican doesn't = EVIL per say or Enemy, I know in rhetoric is can but it simply means applying Politically a Different way the same ideas for America.\

I have met plenty of good Republicans, the issue wasn't them as a person, it was that when you actually got down to their belief system, their entire platform largely depended on lies and them not knowing how the stuff worked in reality. They are, at heart, good people, just not informed in the slightest and their entire belief system relies on those bad assumptions. The biggest issue was they refused to ever question their assumptions and would outright reject information that contradicts their views.

I have seen almost as many really evil republicans who have come out of the wood works since Trump who are outright racist in their views and while they try to veil that stuff under excuses, it is only the thinnest of veils at best or they just don't care about the consequences as long as they "Win" right now. And in both of them, they too often use religion to hide their views. Been told Democrats were Satan Worshipers who were going to burn in hell to justify their double standards, I have been told that "Science goes against GOD" to justify their views, I have watched them try and use the murder of a child by some random guy who was quickly caught and charged to devalue the death of a Floyd who was killed by cops and then protected till the outcry. And so on..

I have never seen a good Republican politician though, it is their job to actually know how the stuff works and they go out of their way to lie about them for personal gain and to play those voters for fools while throwing out dog whistles to the outwardly evil ones.

[Doctor Amadeus]

There is no such thing as evil... “superman does good, you are doing well”...

When it comes to government, discussions focusing on good vs evil is only used for politicians who are poor at their job. Politicians who fail at governance, gaining popular support for their policy or betterment of a nation, are simply poor at being politicians. As soon as politicians are pushing good vs evil, you can know without a doubt, that they failed as politicians.

Just think about which politicians were the most hung up on good vs evil. Which politicians were little about policy, but mostly about said dichotomy. Do you remember any of them fondly? The axis of evil? The destruction of western civilization?

Trump is Evil so are the Alt-Right and his supporters. So I disagree with you is my point. Political parties on the other hand generally aren't. My problem with an individual or individuals doesn't have to be political.

Illegal immigration is always a problem, so is distracted driving, rounding people up or pulling over motorist and executing them on the side of the of the road is a Method and that is fucking evil.

It really doesn't matter ones politics, anyone running for office that thinks that is a solution shouldn't be running for any kind of office.

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I have met plenty of good Republicans, the issue wasn't them as a person, it was that when you actually got down to their belief system, their entire platform largely depended on lies and them not knowing how the stuff worked in reality. They are, at heart, good people, just not informed in the slightest and their entire belief system relies on those bad assumptions. The biggest issue was they refused to ever question their assumptions and would outright reject information that contradicts their views.

I have seen almost as many really evil republicans who have come out of the wood works since Trump who are outright racist in their views and while they try to veil that stuff under excuses, it is only the thinnest of veils at best or they just don't care about the consequences as long as they "Win" right now. And in both of them, they too often use religion to hide their views. Been told Democrats were Satan Worshipers who were going to burn in hell to justify their double standards, I have been told that "Science goes against GOD" to justify their views, I have watched them try and use the murder of a child by some random guy who was quickly caught and charged to devalue the death of a Floyd who was killed by cops and then protected till the outcry. And so on..

I have never seen a good Republican politician though, it is their job to actually know how the stuff works and they go out of their way to lie about them for personal gain and to play those voters for fools while throwing out dog whistles to the outwardly evil ones.

Sometimes people are ignorant they may or may not have access to information and the ability to learn and figure it out for themselves, that isn't the same as knowing something is wrong, not caring that it hurts people, and specifically choosing to do that wrong when other options are available.


And yes the Satan worshipping, the eating children and lizard people shit, nobody who is fucking sane believes that with a straight face, and those who suggest that are more than evil or missing a core.

Plenty of people I think are assholes and I don't like, none I would assign some mythical bullshit like baby eater, shit I even hesitate when someone comes forward with rape allegations regardless to who it is. Believe victims? Yes But that doesn't mean the the accused is guilty without due process.

[smityx]

There's already a major 3rd party. The Trump Party, There are still some sane old school repubs

[Felya]

There's already a major 3rd party. The Trump Party, There are still some sane old school repubs

They are replacing a staunch right winger in AZ, with a NYC conservative... for one reason... fealty to Trump.

[Gestopft]

It would take major electoral reform, such that third parties would actually be viable. Something like proportional representation.

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A platform isn't what keeps people from voting 3rd party. Its that 3rd parties can't win national elections and can only rarely hold lower offices. We'd need Ranked Choice or some other voting system besides first pass the post.

Currently if you want your vote to count for something other than a spoiler you have to choose which of the 2 big tents is closer to your actual beliefs.


Do that and the US becomes a multi party system overnight.

Yes pretty much this.

[Fugus]

Sometimes people are ignorant they may or may not have access to information and the ability to learn and figure it out for themselves, that isn't the same as knowing something is wrong, not caring that it hurts people, and specifically choosing to do that wrong when other options are available.


And yes the Satan worshipping, the eating children and lizard people shit, nobody who is fucking sane believes that with a straight face, and those who suggest that are more than evil or missing a core.

Plenty of people I think are assholes and I don't like, none I would assign some mythical bullshit like baby eater, shit I even hesitate when someone comes forward with rape allegations regardless to who it is. Believe victims? Yes But that doesn't mean the the accused is guilty without due process.

Not having access would be understandable but for most Republicans I have met this wasn’t the issue as you could give them irrefutable proof and they would outright reject it because it conflicted with their current beliefs.

For them, when the facts conflicted with their feelings, they would just call the facts wrong.

Had multiple of them try and tout the economic and job numbers to say that Trump and the GOP were great and that Obama destroyed us. I would show them the numbers and show how it said the exact opposite and Obama helped us greatly and none of Trumps years were better than Obama’s last 3 of which Trump inherited on the upswing. At that point, the official jobs numbers, the official economic numbers, the office DOW tracker all turned fake in that instant.

Had one friend I actually talked to multiple times and if you mentioned something that was conservative friendly he would accept it as gospel regardless of where it came from but if you mentioned something that wasn’t he was the endless sea lion who would question every bit and source in it to infinity and beyond. And when you actually backed him into a corner where he couldn’t logically refute it, he would go silent and nod, not in agreement but because he has mentally shut down and was just waiting for it to end so he didn’t have to process it and then would pretend it never happened and would go back to the lie. Good example, he tried to say that Trump didn’t fire Comey to stop the Russia investigation at all so I showed where he confessed it on camera in an interview. He just went silent but a few days later was back to repeating the lie.

It isn’t that they don’t have access to the information at this point and hasn’t been for decades, it’s that they actively reject it when it says they are wrong.