Do you think Garrosh would have actually burned down Teldrassil?

[OwenBurton]

Do you personally think that if he had conquered Ashenvale, Garrosh as Warchief have burned down Teldrassil? Like Sylvanas did?

I think, even to this end - Garrosh had some definite sense of honor and dignity. He didn't hurt Anduin, for example, after he found out Anduin had spared his life during his trial - and he could have easily maimed him. He might have been willing to kill others - but if the Iron Horde won, I'm not sure he would really try to exterminate the other races, unless he was seriously corrupted somehow.

I think he COULD have burned Teldrassil - in a very fit of passion and rage, and perhaps if he felt it was a choice between his people's continued survival and existence and that of his enemies. But I don't think he'd be happy about it. Or celebrate it. Perhaps he would act happy at first - but eventually, not immediately, he would felt definite unease and guilt at his actions, perhaps months or years after Teldrassil was destroyed, and he might hide it, but it would slowly and surely gnaw away at him from the inside out. He acts tough and brutal - but he is not without conscience. We know that some night elf civilians were slaughtered - the short stories tell us that, and some NPCs like Leyara lost their family members to the Ashenvale invasion - but I don't think Garrosh necessarily targeted them specifically, they were most likely "collateral damage", perhaps slain in the bloodlust of the initial attacks.

But the upheaval of the natural order caused by the Cataclysm—and an influx of orcs— had changed everything. The orcs had slaughtered Sentinels and civilians alike. Cordressa had not seen it with her own eyes, but the orcs had reportedly hunted down those who tried to flee, letting their bodies rot in the road as a brutal warning to anyone who would try to retake Silverwind Refuge.

And perhaps people forget - the bombing of Thal'darah Grove, which killed a bunch of innocent children, was not sanctioned by Garrosh. He actually killed the orc who was responsible. "Honor...no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." He kidnapped magnateur children - but he did not torture them, and though they were killed anyway in Kalimdor, we're not sure whether it was Garrosh's mistake - perhaps he was not aware of the dangers, or perhaps he believed they could defend themselves.

Do you remember why Cairne died? Because he thought Garrosh had supposedly attacked a group of night elf and tauren druids in Ashenvale - but the reality was, he hadn't - most of the Horde thought he did. But he refused to do that. That was not his way of fighting, nor his way of honor.

Indeed, he was pleased at Theramore - but most of the military deaths were overwhelmingly military, and we are not sure whether he was aware most of the civilians were evacuated. I personally think he was an incredibly complicated - and deeply wounded - character who had considerable development, both positive and not that positive, and lots of wasted potential to his end.

[Okacz]

like, i understand that the fanbase isn't willing to give sylvanas an ounce of the "he's complicated" and "he's damaged" and "i see myself in him" that they give to arthas and garrosh, which they give endlessly and it's such thinly masked "i hate women," but come on.

Yikes on all that.

On topic, kind of depends on writing. There is a large difference between Garrosh in Cata, where he tended to behave more "honorably" and seemed to avoid unnecessary civilian casualities, and MoP Garrosh, maddogging everyone and caring little about honor. Theramore is a bit of a bad example, because (at least according to the novel) Theramore was evacuated, and all who remained there were soldiers who chose to defend it. Not a huge defense but yeah, he technically didn't nuke a city full of civilians. I believe it was actually implied to have been Garroshes plan, to have civilians leave the city, but drag more military personel to it, so the bomb does even bigger damage to the Alliance.

But yeah, the I'VE SEEN MOUNTAINS OF SKULLS AND RIVERS OF BLOOD Garrosh sounds like a guy who would burn any tree, every tree, anytime.

[Razion]

Under Old God corruption we see he was willing to burn Stormwind. But, he was behaving differently after the Old God heart had been dealt with and the corruption removed.

While Garrosh was on a dark path, he also wasn't irredeemable. There were histories where Garrosh became "the greatest Warchief the Horde ever had". A future where Garrosh was put on the right path may have been possible.

I think there was good in Garrosh, burried very, VERY far down to the point where we may as well have never saw it, but he was corrupted by the Old God at a pivotal point in his development. We even saw Garrosh be somewhat honorable at examples like in Stonetalon with Krom'gar -- and hell, even his displays in Icecrown were mostly above-board. Garrosh may have been violent before Mists of Pandaria, but he wasn't truly irredeemable until the events of the Bell, the Heart, and the Bomb. Even still, I think there was capacity for Garrosh to change - but it would have been very difficult to do. But, surely, it wasn't Thrall who was going to set Garrosh on the right path. You could probably argue that Thrall did try by agreeing to send him to trial with the August Celestials and the Pandaren, but Thrall also put Garrosh down in Warlords at a point where Garrosh may have been most susceptible to changing. Just one final push may have been all it would have taken for Garrosh to change, but we'll never see that outcome.

[Araya]

Pre-SoO, no I don't think he would. He still believed in honour to some degree at that point, and I don't think he was dumb enough (at least pre-SoO) to burn Teldrassil.

[KainneAbsolute]

Burn the tree? Transform it into the biggest catapult ever!!!

[Julmara]

@KainneAbsolute with lots of huge spikes !

[iamthedevil]

I think he would have manabombed it.

[shoc]

Garrosh would have burned Teldrassil, burned Stormwind, collapsed Ironforge, imploded Exodar, and manabombed Gilneas (even if it was uninhabited), and filled Gnomeregan with extra radiation for good measure.

[cparle87]

uh, garrosh nuked theramore...

A valid military target that had been the launching point for Alliance offensives across the continent, resulting in the destruction of at least three Horde encampments. Also, he was fully aware the civilian populace had been evacuated.

Agreed with you about the rest. Garrosh would've been fighting to win, not to kill as many people as possible up front then bail for another plan.

[Jastall]

Yikes on all that.

On topic, kind of depends on writing. There is a large difference between Garrosh in Cata, where he tended to behave more "honorably" and seemed to avoid unnecessary civilian casualities, and MoP Garrosh, maddogging everyone and caring little about honor. Theramore is a bit of a bad example, because (at least according to the novel) Theramore was evacuated, and all who remained there were soldiers who chose to defend it. Not a huge defense but yeah, he technically didn't nuke a city full of civilians. I believe it was actually implied to have been Garroshes plan, to have civilians leave the city, but drag more military personel to it, so the bomb does even bigger damage to the Alliance.

But yeah, the I'VE SEEN MOUNTAINS OF SKULLS AND RIVERS OF BLOOD Garrosh sounds like a guy who would burn any tree, every tree, anytime.

He didn't nuke Theramore's civilians, he instead sent his crack SS squads (sorry, Kor'kron) to capture, torture and then murder them for fun. Jury's still out on if that's better, and if memory serves he initially didn't even know that the city had been evacuated of civilians anyway.

Garrosh from Twilight Highlands onwards was portrayed as a boneheaded, if skilled, warmonger and he absolutely would have torched the tree the second he could.

[Okacz]

He didn't nuke Theramore's civilians, he instead sent his crack SS squads (sorry, Kor'kron) to capture, torture and then murder them for fun. Jury's still out on if that's better, and if memory serves he initially didn't even know that the city had been evacuated of civilians anyway.

It's always a difficult point to debate, because the presence of "Theramore captives" in Siege of Orgrimmar directly contradicts the novel that is considered (sadly) canon. According to the book, not only did all the civilians evacuate, it also happen a long time before Garroshes armies actually reached Theramore. For Garrosh to have any "Theramore prisoners" he would have to go completly out of his way to find any. And even if he did (which isn't in the novels), he'd have them nicely hidden for the "big reveal for the raid". Yeah, keep them for over a year in a secret prison, make sure they are well fed so players can watch them fight each other during a damn siege.

In essence, it makes as much sense as if in Siege Garrosh welcomed Thrall while sitting on a throne room made of several dead Anduins that he cloned just to piss off Varian. So, very little.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Gee, the guy who dropped a magical nuke on Theramore, attempted genocide on any race that wasn't orc, tauren and goblin, and allowed us to see his vision of wanting to see Stormwind burned to the ground... I do wonder what he would choose to do to Teldrassil if given the option.


People have to remember: the Garrosh character development in WotLK and Cataclysm was thrown in the trash and replaced with Garrosh of MoP.

[Powerogue]

I think he probably would've still conquered, but taken them prisoner instead to get the surrender/heads of the night elf leaders who escaped. Sylvanas is uniquely evil in deliberately targeting civilians. Garrosh wanted to destroy the Alliance, but had his excessively orcish ideas of "honor and glory" that Saurfang condemned in BFA (got them from his father after all, how apt) so he always wanted it to be a fight that he would win.



Maybe Garrosh would take the tree, proclaim victory, and immediately get to work chopping it into a million https://www.wowhead.com/item=119213/unnecessary-spike. Forget spiking Orgrimmar, Garrosh will spike the world!

[Nemah]

"My people should have taken this world long ago, during the First War! But they fell to corruption in their weakness. They asked the pitiful races of Azeroth to join the Horde. I will succeed where they have failed, and no power in this world can stop me!

No, it cannot end like this. What I...what I have seen? Nooooo! This world, is my destiny! My, destiny.

Anger, hatred, fear, they are weapons of war. The tools of a Warchief. yes, yes, I can see it now. I can see the future of this world. A world ruled by the Horde, my Horde! The old one calls to you. The heart will be your end. See the visions of fear, despair and doubt as I have. You will be trapped for eternity. The true horde will come to pass, I have seen it! I have seen mountains of skulls and rivers of blood, and I will have my world!

You think you have won, you are blind. I will force your eyes open! Behold, my glorious destiny! There is no place for you in my world. I will destroy everything you have ever loved! Do you remember nothing of honor, of glory on the battlefield? You would parlay with the humans, who have warlocks practice their dark magic right under our feet.

You are weak. We are the orcish Horde, the true Horde. We die bloody and thrashing on the field of battle, like true orcs should. You are an orc no longer, and speak for none but yourself. You betrayed your people to forge your fragile alliances and I will take great pleasure in tearing them apart.

Fool, my dark shaman have twisted and tortured the elements for miles around. They cannot hear you now. Once again, you proved too weak and powerless to do anything.

So, you wish to face off against a real orc warchief. So be it. I, Garrosh, Son of Grom, will show you what it means to be called Hellscream! Weak, pitiful...now you know your place in my new world.

Witness the power of the true Horde's arsenal. We will cleanse this world in steel and fire. Warbringers, bloody your blades. Farseers, mend our wounds.

For the true horde! Blood and thunder! Die with honor. The power flows through me. The power to crush your world, and everything on it. All will fall in the name of Hellscream!"

--

Garrosh as we last saw him as not a prisoner/as in he wasn't stopped by rando adventurers? Yeah, unless the nelves surrendered into servitude or similar he'd have burned/nuked/manabombed it, whatever.

[Icelin]

Would've he destroyed it? Yes.
Would've he burnt it down? No.

He would've harvested Teldrassil for all its materials. Ashenvale and quests pretty much lead me to this conclusion.

[Rustedsaint]

No he woulda harvested the resources of the tree and probably enslave the population.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Before the heart? No it wouldn’t make any sense to do so as it would (and should have) bring all the wild gods who were sitting in Hyjal down on the horde. He likely would go with sylvanas first plan and capture it and use it as a hostage.

After the heart? Ya without a doudt.

[Crimson Spears]

No but mostly because unlike the chaotic evil of sylvannas he seems more goal oriented rather then simply pushing the plot via mindless violence. I could see him occupying it or harvesting it but nothing as wasteful as burning.

[Jastall]

It's always a difficult point to debate, because the presence of "Theramore captives" in Siege of Orgrimmar directly contradicts the novel that is considered (sadly) canon. According to the book, not only did all the civilians evacuate, it also happen a long time before Garroshes armies actually reached Theramore. For Garrosh to have any "Theramore prisoners" he would have to go completly out of his way to find any. And even if he did (which isn't in the novels), he'd have them nicely hidden for the "big reveal for the raid". Yeah, keep them for over a year in a secret prison, make sure they are well fed so players can watch them fight each other during a damn siege.

In essence, it makes as much sense as if in Siege Garrosh welcomed Thrall while sitting on a throne room made of several dead Anduins that he cloned just to piss off Varian. So, very little.

Makes about as much sense as Jaina eagerly allowing Varian to use Theramore as a base of operations for raids in Horde territory, while their last interaction beforehand had her cry literal tears of joy that he was being nice to one Orc.

The faction war doesn't make sense and relies on forced contrivances. It was true in Cata/Mists and in BFA both. That's the long and short of it. The Theramore survivors in Siege of Orgrimmar being the result of a huge contrivance doesn't make them any less canon than any other nonsense in Warcraft lore. From this position we can easily infer that the well-being of Alliance citizens doesn't rank very high up in Garrosh's concerns at all.

[korijenkins]

No, he would've used it as a base of operations.