View Poll Results: Do you think Garrosh would have actually burned down Teldrassil?

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  • Yes, most likely

    100 57.47%
  • No, most likely not

    54 31.03%
  • Other / Not sure / It's complicated

    20 11.49%
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  1. #81
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Given how Garrosh killed Cairne when Cairne called Garrosh out on his war hawkishness and stupidity, I'd say yes Garrosh would have been crazy enough and shortsighted enough to burn Teldrassil.

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    Also, look at what he did to Theramore. And Pandaria. And his dreams of Stormwind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    While he wasn't above razing a city to the ground,he seemed to care more about winning the war than he cared about doing an edgy asspull move for no reason whatsoever.
    He destroyed the Vale for no reason whatsoever, wiping out Pandaren villages. Garrosh viewed anything that wasn't a part of his True Horde as an enemy to be destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Garrosh was by far worse. He willingly nuked Theramore with as many leaders as he could manage and he was always ready to kill and destroy. His nut sized brain tho wasn´t enough to thinking about burning the tree.
    No, Sylvanas is worse than Garrosh. Sylvanas did everything Garrosh did and more. Sylvanas had an ongoing Unit 731 operation going on in Undercity since Vanilla, where she had mad scientists performing live experimentation on people to create chemical weapons which she liberally made use of. Sylvanas was also far more petty than Garrosh. Garrosh would've burned Teldrassil out of a fanatical devotion to his dream of Orcish glory. Sylvanas burned the tree just to spite a dying elf. Sylvanas also doesn't give a shit about anyone but herself. Garrosh at least wants to protect those who he considers to be apart of his True Horde.

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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyiana View Post
    uh, garrosh nuked theramore...
    like, i understand that the fanbase isn't willing to give sylvanas an ounce of the "he's complicated" and "he's damaged" and "i see myself in him" that they give to arthas and garrosh, which they give endlessly and it's such thinly masked "i hate women,"
    "Thinly" is beyond generous.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    we are not sure whether he was aware most of the civilians were evacuated.
    Garrosh had the Theramore surivors hauled off the Orgrimmar to be tortured to death and used as target practices.
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  4. #84
    He would have kept night elf slaves to cut all of Teldrassil for an unlimited amount of wood resource. Its like how Grom responded when his men first encountered a Tree of Life ''its just a tree.. cut it down!''.

  5. #85
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyiana View Post
    uh, garrosh nuked theramore...
    like, i understand that the fanbase isn't willing to give sylvanas an ounce of the "he's complicated" and "he's damaged" and "i see myself in him" that they give to arthas and garrosh, which they give endlessly and it's such thinly masked "i hate women," but come on. even the hardest arthas and garrosh did nothing wrong crowd should be able to see the logical progression of what garrosh wouldve done with azerite. garrosh absolutely didn't care about civilians-need i remind you of how quick he was to murder anduin?

    garrosh gets azerite and sails to teldrassil, not land walks to it, and nukes it before anyone gets evacuated. then goes right for stormwind, because unlike sylvanas, he actually just fights wars to kill opposition on his material plane. i love garrosh, but there's no doubt in my mind he would've tactical nuked teldrassil then gone for stormwind. in fact, alliance wouldn't have had a chance in the blood war if garrosh was warchief during it. sylvanas was never trying to win, but garrosh would've.

    edit: and before the "garrosh wouldn't have started the blood war" crowd walks in, yes, he would've. mass weaponry and a chance to eradicate what he perceives as the threat to his continued existence? he not only starts the blood war, he finishes it. like i absolutely love and adore garrosh, but i don't love him because he's morally upstanding. garrosh even in his best moments believed in fighting as key to a healthy orc lifestyle.
    LOL I'm the farthest thing from hating women, I still am not gonna give her anything and I don't give Garrosh anything. But if there is one thing I can say about Garrosh is that he cared for his people, you can't even say that about Sylvanas...she is and has always been about numero uno.

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    Onto the question....I guess it depends

    If Garrosh was actually there to capture...I think he would try and capture it, burn it down as a last resort if he couldn't take it. But if he was there just to kill Night Elves then yes, he'd burn it.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    LOL I'm the farthest thing from hating women, I still am not gonna give her anything and I don't give Garrosh anything. But if there is one thing I can say about Garrosh is that he cared for his people, you can't even say that about Sylvanas...she is and has always been about numero uno.

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    Onto the question....I guess it depends

    If Garrosh was actually there to capture...I think he would try and capture it, burn it down as a last resort if he couldn't take it. But if he was there just to kill Night Elves then yes, he'd burn it.
    I dunno I feel like Garrosh is more hands on in his approach to mass murder.

    One things for sure though, if the whole thing was the same only swapping Garrosh in for Sylvanas, Malfurion would be dead, so that's +2pts for Garrosh
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  7. #87
    I mean, seeing his vision of future? He'd destroy everything.

  8. #88
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    I dunno I feel like Garrosh is more hands on in his approach to mass murder.

    One things for sure though, if the whole thing was the same only swapping Garrosh in for Sylvanas, Malfurion would be dead, so that's +2pts for Garrosh
    Well I think it would definitely be harder to sneak a manabomb to the island
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  9. #89
    I don't think he would have. Not because he would have had any moral problems with it.
    Just because it is a whole bunch of wood he could use to kill more non-orcs with.

    Imagine how many arrows you can build with that tree. Now its just used matchsticks.

  10. #90
    na,he would have used all that lumber!

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Just to be sure, this is sarcasm right? If he’s willing to torture civilians to death, I’m pretty sure he’s willing to nuke them.
    Nope. People argue he nuked Theramore. I point out it's a valid military target. People argue it has civilians. I point out they weren't there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Wrong. 10000000% wrong.

    He had planned to mana bomb it with zero warning, but Baine betrayed him and gave the alliance warning ,allowing them to evacuate.

    Also garrosh literally had all the civilian ships captured. Tortured, killed, and enslaved all the civilians.

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    He was planning to nuke them but Baine betrayed him.
    I just went and reread the book. They conquer Northwatch. Baine and the other warriors want to push on Theramore, but Garrosh says no they'll wait. Theramore gets time to reinforce which ultimately plays into Garrosh's hands. THEN Baine sends his messenger to return the weapon he got from Anduin in shame for his part in the destruction of Northwatch. No mention anywhere of when the evacuation took place and no mention of some imaginary betrayal from Baine warning Theramore they'd be next. It was to return the weapon.

    And for the fifth time capturing and killing civilians is not the same kind of war crime as nuking them, which is what the guys I've been quoting have been incorrectly trying to argue Garrosh did.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  12. #92
    I dont really see Garrosh having a huge pile of resources like that burned, just to kill civilians... who are also resources(slaves).

    People like to point out the bombing of Theramore, like Jaina and Theramore were innocent in their attacks on the Horde. Theramore was a legit military target and Garrosh did nothing wrong in destroying it.

  13. #93
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    Maybe, but atleast not as offhandedly as Sylvanas. If he did, it would have been because he felt that he wouldn't be able to conquer it or that it would cost too many troops. As long as he believed he could just take the tree, he would.

    Maybe if the Wisps gave him significant trouble, he would burn it too.

  14. #94
    Garrosh did nothing wrong, it was all Thrall's fault.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Do you personally think that if he had conquered Ashenvale, Garrosh as Warchief have burned down Teldrassil? Like Sylvanas did?

    I think, even to this end - Garrosh had some definite sense of honor and dignity. He didn't hurt Anduin, for example, after he found out Anduin had spared his life during his trial - and he could have easily maimed him. He might have been willing to kill others - but if the Iron Horde won, I'm not sure he would really try to exterminate the other races, unless he was seriously corrupted somehow.

    I think he COULD have burned Teldrassil - in a very fit of passion and rage, and perhaps if he felt it was a choice between his people's continued survival and existence and that of his enemies. But I don't think he'd be happy about it. Or celebrate it. Perhaps he would act happy at first - but eventually, not immediately, he would felt definite unease and guilt at his actions, perhaps months or years after Teldrassil was destroyed, and he might hide it, but it would slowly and surely gnaw away at him from the inside out. He acts tough and brutal - but he is not without conscience. We know that some night elf civilians were slaughtered - the short stories tell us that, and some NPCs like Leyara lost their family members to the Ashenvale invasion - but I don't think Garrosh necessarily targeted them specifically, they were most likely "collateral damage", perhaps slain in the bloodlust of the initial attacks.



    And perhaps people forget - the bombing of Thal'darah Grove, which killed a bunch of innocent children, was not sanctioned by Garrosh. He actually killed the orc who was responsible. "Honor...no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." He kidnapped magnateur children - but he did not torture them, and though they were killed anyway in Kalimdor, we're not sure whether it was Garrosh's mistake - perhaps he was not aware of the dangers, or perhaps he believed they could defend themselves.

    Do you remember why Cairne died? Because he thought Garrosh had supposedly attacked a group of night elf and tauren druids in Ashenvale - but the reality was, he hadn't - most of the Horde thought he did. But he refused to do that. That was not his way of fighting, nor his way of honor.

    Indeed, he was pleased at Theramore - but most of the military deaths were overwhelmingly military, and we are not sure whether he was aware most of the civilians were evacuated. I personally think he was an incredibly complicated - and deeply wounded - character who had considerable development, both positive and not that positive, and lots of wasted potential to his end.
    If he had reason to do it, he'd have definitely done it,no question.

    But the thing is that i don't think he'd ever have such a reason. He'd exploit the situation, or harvest it for wood or something of the like, death just for death's sake does not fit with Garrosh despite his evil.
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  16. #96
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Nope. People argue he nuked Theramore. I point out it's a valid military target. People argue it has civilians. I point out they weren't there.

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    I just went and reread the book. They conquer Northwatch. Baine and the other warriors want to push on Theramore, but Garrosh says no they'll wait. Theramore gets time to reinforce which ultimately plays into Garrosh's hands. THEN Baine sends his messenger to return the weapon he got from Anduin in shame for his part in the destruction of Northwatch. No mention anywhere of when the evacuation took place and no mention of some imaginary betrayal from Baine warning Theramore they'd be next. It was to return the weapon.

    And for the fifth time capturing and killing civilians is not the same kind of war crime as nuking them, which is what the guys I've been quoting have been incorrectly trying to argue Garrosh did.
    guess you must have fell asleep while reading.


    cause ya missed it buddy... it was literally to warn her theramore was next, with the weapon being proof. he did not send a messenger just to deliver the weapon, you have to be kidding.
    he warned jaina because she had helped him before by giving him funds to purchase mercs to help him reclaim thunderbluff from the grimtotems.

    also no its not the same war crime.
    its worse.
    but again, his original plan WAS to nuke them.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-05-12 at 12:27 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    If he had reason to do it, he'd have definitely done it,no question.

    But the thing is that i don't think he'd ever have such a reason. He'd exploit the situation, or harvest it for wood or something of the like, death just for death's sake does not fit with Garrosh despite his evil.
    Cataclysm book say otherwise. When returning from the northrend campaign, his boat got drag into ocean storm caused by the incoming cataclysm. He comes across an alliance ship that went through the same thing and got dragged into horde waters. Even knowing they had no control of the situation he slaughtered them because he was feeling scared and wanted something to vent his frustration on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    I dont really see Garrosh having a huge pile of resources like that burned, just to kill civilians... who are also resources(slaves).

    People like to point out the bombing of Theramore, like Jaina and Theramore were innocent in their attacks on the Horde. Theramore was a legit military target and Garrosh did nothing wrong in destroying it.
    Ogrimmar is also a legit military target. Before cataclysm, all lore of theramore island had theramore city on it. It got downgraded in cataclysm to give garrosh a cool moment without making horde seem like complete monsters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Cataclysm book say otherwise. When returning from the northrend campaign, his boat got drag into ocean storm caused by the incoming cataclysm. He comes across an alliance ship that went through the same thing and got dragged into horde waters. Even knowing they had no control of the situation he slaughtered them because he was feeling scared and wanted something to vent his frustration on.

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    Ogrimmar is also a legit military target. Before cataclysm, all lore of theramore island had theramore city on it. It got downgraded in cataclysm to give garrosh a cool moment without making horde seem like complete monsters.
    That hardly seems relevant, even if it were a civilian vessel (which seems unlikely).

    I mean he's always been a hypocrite, so an alliance vessel entering horde waters is still a legitimate reason from his perspective.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Nope. People argue he nuked Theramore. I point out it's a valid military target. People argue it has civilians. I point out they weren't there.
    .
    And I’d argue that he’d have no problem nuking civilians, he only delayed the nuke because he wanted the alliance naval command present before he dropped the nuke. The fact that he made sure the civilians didn’t escape and suffered an even worst death leaves no room for dispute. Not sure how you can argue that he wouldn’t nuke civilians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    That hardly seems relevant, even if it were a civilian vessel (which seems unlikely).

    I mean he's always been a hypocrite, so an alliance vessel entering horde waters is still a legitimate reason from his perspective.
    It wasn’t a civilian vessel, you posted garrosh isn’t about killing just for killing sake. That example show it was. He knew the alliance ship had no intention of entering horde waters, he experienced the same frightening chain of events and lost of control that they did, he was scared (not of the alliance) so he decide to kill just to make himself feel better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    And I’d argue that he’d have no problem nuking civilians, he only delayed the nuke because he wanted the alliance naval command present before he dropped the nuke. The fact that he made sure the civilians didn’t escape and suffered an even worst death leaves no room for dispute. Not sure how you can argue that he wouldn’t nuke civilians.

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    It wasn’t a civilian vessel, you posted garrosh isn’t about killing just for killing sake. That example show it was. He knew the alliance ship had no intention of entering horde waters, he experienced the same frightening chain of events and lost of control that they did, he was scared (not of the alliance) so he decide to kill just to make himself feel better.
    Except it is not at all, his reasons are clear enough:
    - It's a military vessel, weakening the alliance with plausible deniability fits his opportunistic character and hate of the alliance
    - He has been shown to be quite the hypocrite before, so rather than showing understanding he just deems them to be a trespasser acting on intent, thus "justifying" his behaviour to him
    - He has been shown times and again to be very emotional, as such even just his emotions already provide a reason to kill beyond killing for killing's sake.

    In short: nothing of this example illustrates that Garrosh kills for killing's sake. He has reasons, unlike Sylvanas who kills because more souls to the maw.

    I mean yeah they're "bad" reasons, but they are certainly reasons and entirely realistic and in line with his established character.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

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